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Should scapula get his premium back

Poll ended at Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:25 pm

No
46
58%
Yes
33
42%
 
Total votes : 79

Re: Scapula

Postby Evil Semp on Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:11 pm

thebest712 wrote:
natty_dread wrote:
thebest712 wrote:yip, rule one is a stupid rule


You'd let everyone have as many accounts as they want?

nope its just take way to striktly


So how would you like the no multiple accounts rule enforced?

===================================================================

Namor wrote:
Scapula wrote:... I want to answer a point by Namor. I can't find the old account anywhere...

Firstly, here is your old account, Jimi, which you can see, has been accessed on 10th March. The account is currently inactive, which is apparent by the fact that 'Guests' is the only usergroup available (but that is probably only since being kicked for rule violation). It would be nice if one of the mods could shed some light on this, if only so that this discussion can be conducted on fact, rather than speculation.


Scapula signed into the jimi several days after they were busted as multi's. That just proves he knew the log in information. Yes you can still log in after a bust but you are not able to use any of the features like an active account. Free accounts are inactive after a bust. Premium accounts lose their premium and become free accounts. Accounts that are not used for over 30 days get dropped off the score board but they are still active accounts.

Namor wrote:Secondly;
Scapula wrote:... I do think it's wrong that the sanctity of the Multiple Account rule is diminished simply by paying another $25...

Scapula has a valid point here.


The purpose of letting someone back in is to give them second chance which Scapula has been given by still being a free account.

Namor wrote:* EDIT *
BTW, I haven't voted yet. I'd rather wait for all of the facts (but at the moment I'm leaning toward Yes).


I hope this answered your questions.

===================================================================


Hannibał wrote:I have a easy solution, while going through the trouble of making accounts "inactive"...delete them..no reason to keep people around from 5 years ago. :idea:


Why not just use the original account and not make another account? That would save trouble and pretty much put me out of a job.

*Edit

I meant to say this before about the older accounts. Some members take time away from playing and return and use their old account.
Last edited by Evil Semp on Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scapula

Postby Hannibał on Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:52 pm

Or why not outright ban people busted instead of slimply pick pocketing them, allowing them to stick around and continue their behavior?

^Dosent take away your volunteer job (thankyou btw, your only enforcing the rules the way your told) just makes it easier
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Re: Scapula

Postby Evil Semp on Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:26 pm

Scapula wrote:I think there are two major points here.  One demonstrating an error on my part and the other demonstrating unjust behavior on the part of the Conquer Club authorities.

First, my own error.  Upon trying to sign on for the first time since July 2009 (as it turns out, thanks Namor) but failing to, I should have contacted Conquer Club using the method highlighted by Evil Semp & Woodruf.

I didn't do that and just set up a new account under a new name so to not delay getting on with playing what I find a very enjoyable game.  I had no idea that that would be a problem as seemingly (at the time) the old account had expired


Accounts do not expire.

Scapula wrote:and it wasn't even a Premium Account anyway, something I wanted because I can now play on my iPhone regularly (and therefore play quickly and not miss turns) and, as it happens, as a reward to myself for going for two weeks without smoking.


It doesn't matter if an account is premium or free, only 1 account per customer. You can upgrade free account to premium without creating another account.

Scapula wrote:Going by the rules, I shouldn't have done that but the point remains that I do not have two accounts in order to cheat


Not all multiple accounts are used for cheating, some use them to get around the 4 game limit for free accounts.

Scapula wrote:and I am perfectly happy for the older one to be deleted.


Accounts do not get deleted.

Scapula wrote:Afterall, it hasn't been used for nearly twenty months.


You signed in the second account on the 10th of Mar.


Scapula wrote:As for Conquer Club, I genuinely feel that despite it being a good website and community, they have behaved in an unjust and somewhat extortative manner in both my and other players cases similar to this.  Here's why:

Members such as Evil Semp, Woodruf, natty_dread & Ijex seem to believe in a zero tolerence approach when it comes to the Multi Account rule and do you know what?  They're intentions are absolutely correct.  This is a great game and it's honourable players should be protected from cheats.  They see the rules as sacred.


Again I will state all multiple accounts are not created for cheating the points system. Many to get around the 4 game limit and some create a second account and use it to learn other maps, then play those maps with their main account to gain points.

Scapula wrote:However, one of the listed benefits of Premium Membership is this:      

"Feel that WARM and FUZZY feeling you get from supporting a website that you love"

Nice that, isn't it.  Support some good guys for creating a good website.  Decent chaps that believe in honesty, fair play and the integrity of the rules.

Why is it then that the sanctity of the rules counts for nothing, providing you pay ANOTHER $25?


You get a second chance.

Scapula wrote:Could I open as many accounts and cheat as much as I like provided I could afford the back-hander each time I got caught?


No you do not get to keep buying back your account.

Scapula wrote:Are the rules stricter for the poor than they are the wealthy?


No they are not.

Scapula wrote:It's wrong and it's unsavoury.


What's wrong and unsavoury? The fact that we have a rule that you agreed to when you signed up and were held accountable for breaking that rule.

Scapula wrote:If this is the reality of the application of the rules then clearly they are more flexible than the above named members would like and on that basis, I think my own case should be looked at individually and judged with reason.


How are they more flexible? Any member free or premium has the option of buying back after being busted. They don't get unlimited buybacks.

Scapula wrote:I have not cheated any of my opponents.  I have behaved reasonably on the most part and I am capable of contributing to your community as evidenced here.


You may not have cheated your opponents in a game but you did go back on your agreement to not to have multiple accounts.

Scapula wrote:I understand that I may now be under suspicion and am happy to be continually observed and scrutinised if that satisfies the more cynical among you.   

All I want to do is play as many games as I can, improve my ranking, relax and have fun.  You can close my old account as I don't use, want or need it.  Surely that's reasonable?



Would one reason for wanting the newer account be the fact that you do have a higher score than the older account? You played 130 games on the jimi account and have a lower score than you do with the Scapula account which has only played 35 games. I would want to keep the scapula account also.

Scapula wrote: If you believe in common sense, then please vote "YES"!    


If you believe in common sense, then please vote "NO"!

Nobody said you opened the second account to cheat, but you did check the box that all important box that says you will only EVERuse one account, not once but twice.
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Re: Scapula

Postby thebest712 on Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:47 pm

well I just would do rule like this, if you play only on one account, the second account gets deleted/blocked/inactivated if they still can play on first, if they play on both= bust
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Re: Scapula

Postby Commander62890 on Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:23 pm

I feel that many of those who create a new account and upgrade to premium on it (while not playing a single game on the old account) have no intention to break the rules. Therefore, these people should be informed of their mistake, have the new account closed, and have the premium applied to their first account. If it happens again, then they are stripped of their premium.

The way it is set up, too many people that have no intention to break the rules are losing their money, and it just seems like CC is stealing these peoples' money with an unnecessarily strict rule.

People shouldn't be getting a "warm and fuzzy" feeling about supporting CC... this rule is oppressive and takes money away from people with good intentions.




Edit:

To clarify, people who play games with their old account at the same time that they play with their new account should be punished. But if they are not playing with their old account, they should be informed of the one account rule and have one of their accounts scrapped. If it happens again (though I can't imagine it would), THEN they lose their money.

Do you see how this is just a way for CC to make money? Such bullshit...
Last edited by Commander62890 on Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scapula

Postby Evil Semp on Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:37 pm

thebest712 wrote:well I just would do rule like this, if you play only on one account, the second account gets deleted/blocked/inactivated if they still can play on first, if they play on both= bust


So someone plays for several months, learns how to play some of the harder maps, starts a new account so he can get more points early. That sounds fair to me. NOT.
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Re: Scapula

Postby natty dread on Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:39 pm

Scapula wrote:If this is the reality of the application of the rules then clearly they are more flexible than the above named members would like and on that basis, I think my own case should be looked at individually and judged with reason.


What I'm reading is... "the no multiple accounts rule is good, if you'd just enforce it on everyone else except me!"
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Re: Scapula

Postby Commander62890 on Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:45 pm

Evil Semp wrote:
thebest712 wrote:well I just would do rule like this, if you play only on one account, the second account gets deleted/blocked/inactivated if they still can play on first, if they play on both= bust


So someone plays for several months, learns how to play some of the harder maps, starts a new account so he can get more points early. That sounds fair to me. NOT.

Yes, this would be a problem.

But the fact is, the rule is unfair for many other people.

That justifies being lenient with the type of situation you mentioned. Just give that player a slap on the wrist the first time, and if it happens again (unlikely), they are stripped of premium.


Edit (from earlier post):
commander62890 wrote:To clarify, people who play games with their old account at the same time that they play with their new account should be punished and be stripped of premium. But if they are not playing with their old account, they should be informed of the one account rule and have one of their accounts scrapped (but maintain premium on the other account). If it happens again (though I can't imagine it would), THEN they lose their money.

Do you see how this is just a way for CC to make money? Such bullshit...
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Re: Scapula

Postby Hannibał on Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:13 pm

Commander62890 wrote:I feel that many of those who create a new account and upgrade to premium on it (while not playing a single game on the old account) have no intention to break the rules. Therefore, these people should be informed of their mistake, have the new account closed, and have the premium applied to their first account. If it happens again, then they are stripped of their premium.

The way it is set up, too many people that have no intention to break the rules are losing their money, and it just seems like CC is stealing these peoples' money with an unnecessarily strict rule.

People shouldn't be getting a "warm and fuzzy" feeling about supporting CC... this rule is oppressive and takes money away from people with good intentions.

Edit:

To clarify, people who play games with their old account at the same time that they play with their new account should be punished. But if they are not playing with their old account, they should be informed of the one account rule and have one of their accounts scrapped. If it happens again (though I can't imagine it would), THEN they lose their money.

Do you see how this is just a way for CC to make money? Such bullshit...



Thankyou commander, exactly what I've been trying to say, you just say it much better. Its a scam..you can cheat, as long as you pay...if they feel its such a violation of the rules they should be banned, not allowed to do it again..
Last edited by Hannibał on Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scapula

Postby Evil Semp on Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:49 pm

Commander62890 wrote:
Evil Semp wrote:
thebest712 wrote:well I just would do rule like this, if you play only on one account, the second account gets deleted/blocked/inactivated if they still can play on first, if they play on both= bust


So someone plays for several months, learns how to play some of the harder maps, starts a new account so he can get more points early. That sounds fair to me. NOT.

Yes, this would be a problem.

But the fact is, the rule is unfair for many other people.


Just who are the many other people that are being treated unfairly?
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Re: Scapula

Postby jefjef on Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:11 pm

Why is this even being discussed?

When you check the box agreeing to only having one account EVER you are making a contract. If you make another account for whatever reason, of which none have ever been good or valid, violates that agreed upon contract.

CC owns this site. CC is a privately owned entity. CC can choose who it's customers/users are and by what conditions.

This player has an opportunity to remain even AFTER violating the contract he agreed upon. I'd say that is being pretty lenient and is NOT treating the offender unfairly.
This post was made by jefjef who should be on your ignore list.
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Re: Scapula

Postby Commander62890 on Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:37 pm

jefjef wrote:When you check the box agreeing to only having one account EVER you are making a contract. If you make another account for whatever reason, of which none have ever been good or valid, violates that agreed upon contract.

CC owns this site. CC is a privately owned entity. CC can choose who it's customers/users are and by what conditions.

This player has an opportunity to remain even AFTER violating the contract he agreed upon. I'd say that is being pretty lenient and is NOT treating the offender unfairly.

That's an entirely valid argument, and I understand why many of you agree with this.

But I am looking at it from an intent point of view - he made a small mistake; he didn't mean to break the rules.

Additionally, I don't see anything wrong with giving him a second chance (except that Lack doesn't get $25).
If he makes the mistake again, then sure, take his money.
But I don't think people should be penalized for their first offense. What is so wrong with returning his money?
If he does it again, we'll know he's guilty.
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Re: Scapula

Postby TheForgivenOne on Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:00 pm

Evil Semp wrote:
Scapula wrote:As for Conquer Club, I genuinely feel that despite it being a good website and community, they have behaved in an unjust and somewhat extortative manner in both my and other players cases similar to this.  Here's why:

Members such as Evil Semp, Woodruf, natty_dread & Ijex seem to believe in a zero tolerence approach when it comes to the Multi Account rule and do you know what?  They're intentions are absolutely correct.  This is a great game and it's honourable players should be protected from cheats.  They see the rules as sacred.


Again I will state all multiple accounts are not created for cheating the points system. Many to get around the 4 game limit and some create a second account and use it to learn other maps, then play those maps with their main account to gain points.



Players have also been known to create second accounts, when they are a high ranking account, and want to play the game types they love without risking their points.
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Re: Scapula

Postby Scapula on Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:06 pm

natty_dread and Evil Semp,

I would never expect to pursuade everybody of my viewpoint but thank you for your input on this. It's good to debate this issue succinctly and with such clarity.

Whether a Premium Member or not, I'd be happy to give you both a game sometime if you like? Oh and Evil Semp, I'll play it on whatever map you like. Your choice. As you'll see from my games history mate, I play on a variety of maps, contrary to your earlier given reason for setting up a second account.

So, what do you say?
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Re: Scapula

Postby jefjef on Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:23 pm

What I don't understand is why you are allowed to still use Scapula account. Jimi was the first one and made in 2007. Normal procedure is the original is allowed to be used and bought back in on and the newer one/s are guested.

Looks like they let you keep the more successful one. Be glad and enjoy your games.
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Re: Scapula

Postby Hannibał on Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:26 pm

Noone is debating (for the most part) that Scapula cheated (at the least violated the rules) but it is wrong to say you can't do this, but if you do you have to cough up 25 dollars, then you can stay. it should be either you can't or you can, or why not stop pretending and make people pay a cheaters tax.
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Re: Scapula

Postby Evil Semp on Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:57 pm

Scapula wrote:natty_dread and Evil Semp,

I would never expect to pursuade everybody of my viewpoint but thank you for your input on this. It's good to debate this issue succinctly and with such clarity.

Whether a Premium Member or not, I'd be happy to give you both a game sometime if you like? Oh and Evil Semp, I'll play it on whatever map you like. Your choice. As you'll see from my games history mate, I play on a variety of maps, contrary to your earlier given reason for setting up a second account.

So, what do you say?


Set up a game and invite me.

I wasn't saying that was why you started the second account but it is the reason some do.
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Re: Scapula

Postby Mr_Adams on Sat Mar 12, 2011 10:50 pm

Ok, this is a pretty long thread, I didn't read it all, but I will side with Scapula here. Look at it this way:

If they'd caught him BEFORE he'd bought premium, then he could have bought premium and had 1 year premium for 25$. He bought premium, and now they want him to pay for it again, now costing him 50$ for 1 year (+2 weeks apparently, that he had it before). That seems unfair in and of itself.

On the other hand, he paid, and the cheating was not malicious. It wasn't intentional, and it certainly wasn't used to hurt the site. I, for one, will not renew my premium if the site decides it is going to extort money from people on technicality. That IS what this is, no? Technically he has 2 accounts, but in practical terms, only one is of any importance. The one he uses now. If I were scapul, I'd say piss off CC. just because you have the legal right doesn't mean you should. Legal≠moral.
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Re: Scapula

Postby Hannibał on Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:41 pm

Mr adams, it was intentional, creating that 2nd account, but definitly not malicious. Althought I too have already came to that conclusion that I will not be renewing my premium. Not that I believe the mods care, its not their pocket. But I won't be renewing next year simply to recoup the ill gotten gain from robbing scap..he's wrong, but wrong dosent make it right to steal. Which is exactly what this is. And with that I'm done with this thread. Sorry scap, even though I was rallying for the ban earlier I see all that they care about is your 25 dollars. Best of luck
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Re: Scapula

Postby natty dread on Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:27 am

Opinions are like arseholes, indeed...

You guys who are all huffed up about "intent", and "giving the little guy a break"... how do you judge someone's intent over the internet? How do you know he isn't bullshitting all of you?

Note that I'm not saying this is the case here, but someone could well create a second account, then when he's busted, post a sob story on CC to rally peoples' sympathies on his side. It's easy to portray CC as this evil corporation that is only out to take your money. But look it from a practical point of view.

If CC would now allow Scapula to "get away with" creating the second account, it would be a precedent and they would have to do it with every other multi who comes crying "I didn't know it was wrong and I didn't cheat!!!" How would CC determine, over the internet, which of those who break the rules really did have an "intent" to cheat and who didn't?

If there's a rule against multiple account use, it needs to be the same to everyone, no exceptions.

Lastly, about the point that "CC is just robbing the guy by making him buy premium again"... it's a proper punishment for creating multiple accounts. The reasons for doing this are a bit more complicated than just "extorting money from the poor players"...

Firstly, like already said, it's better than the alternative, which would be never letting them play again. At least now the players are given a second chance. No one even forces him to buy premium again, he can stay as a freemium.

Secondly... when a freemium is busted for multiple accounts, he gets guested and can only play again by buying premium. The reason for this is that CC can more easily track who the user is by the billing information, so asking them to buy premium is a necessary precaution - it's a sort of parole: you commited a crime once, but you do this thing so we can keep an eye on you and we let you back on the streets.

Now, since freemiums are asked to buy a premium before they can even play again... should the ones who were already premium before getting busted get away with nothing? If that was the case, then CC would indeed be discriminating against the freemiums - they would be sending the message "get yourself a premium and we don't care how you act"... I think it's a fair punishment.

It's not a technicality. A site like this needs to take a strict approach to multiple account use, to ensure the enjoyment of the user base. I'm glad they are doing so. And giving the offenders second chances is very generous... on many other sites, it's permaban for the first offense, no questions asked!
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Re: Scapula

Postby thebest712 on Sun Mar 13, 2011 4:36 am

Evil Semp wrote:
thebest712 wrote:well I just would do rule like this, if you play only on one account, the second account gets deleted/blocked/inactivated if they still can play on first, if they play on both= bust


So someone plays for several months, learns how to play some of the harder maps, starts a new account so he can get more points early. That sounds fair to me. NOT.

I didnt read the rest, but, I say the second account becomes inactive, don't I :-s
edit: a warning can be sent then
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Re: Scapula

Postby Scapula on Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:03 am

Evil Semp, I'd love to set up a game and invite you but sadly, I can't. I'm only allowed to play four games at a time.

natty_dread, what do you think of this? The rules state that game chat must be in English or a language that all players can understand, but in a game between me, a Croatian & a Portuguese, I said hello to them both in their mother tongue.

Whilst anything but malicious, and I'm really ever so sorry for it, but this gesture of friendship was in breach of the rules.

Do you think I should be punished for this also? Perhaps I should pay another $25?
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Re: Scapula

Postby thebest712 on Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:58 am

Scapula wrote:Evil Semp, I'd love to set up a game and invite you but sadly, I can't. I'm only allowed to play four games at a time.

natty_dread, what do you think of this? The rules state that game chat must be in English or a language that all players can understand, but in a game between me, a Croatian & a Portuguese, I said hello to them both in their mother tongue.

Whilst anything but malicious, and I'm really ever so sorry for it, but this gesture of friendship was in breach of the rules.

Do you think I should be punished for this also? Perhaps I should pay another $25?

Any form of diplomatic discussion between opponents must be posted in the game chat in English or in a language that all opponents understand
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Re: Scapula

Postby natty dread on Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:51 am

Scapula wrote:Whilst anything but malicious, and I'm really ever so sorry for it, but this gesture of friendship was in breach of the rules.


No, it wasn't.
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Re: Scapula

Postby JelleR on Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:28 am

Scapula wrote:Evil Semp, I'd love to set up a game and invite you but sadly, I can't. I'm only allowed to play four games at a time.

natty_dread, what do you think of this? The rules state that game chat must be in English or a language that all players can understand, but in a game between me, a Croatian & a Portuguese, I said hello to them both in their mother tongue.

Whilst anything but malicious, and I'm really ever so sorry for it, but this gesture of friendship was in breach of the rules.

Do you think I should be punished for this also? Perhaps I should pay another $25?


Awwww.

Seriously, stop whining. You didnt follow the rules and now you pay the price. Chalk it up as a lesson learned! Also read Nattys post a few times, he makes very good points!
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