real bad results in c and a (case resolved.)

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what do you think this case should have ended with

Poll ended at Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:43 am

warning
42
23%
temp ban
24
13%
point reset
83
45%
perma ban
11
6%
nothing
24
13%
 
Total votes : 184

Re: real bad results in c and a

Postby eddie2 on Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:56 pm

king achilles wrote:Eddie2, that last sentence I made was meant as a question. I mistakenly placed a period instead of a question mark. Next time, before stirring the crowd, try to confirm this kind of things first rather than be your usual annoying self.



lol i think all know it was a mistake in the email cause it didn't make sense. but it was funny and had 2 be posted. as for stirring the crowd you don't need me for that.

now since you obviously are posting how about adding some ideas as to how you could deal with this in future because it seems you put sitting rules in force that mean nothing as no punishments are issued to match the crime.

example

the games blitz joined illegally are still being sat by blitz taking jobis turns both them players should be kicked from the games.
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Re: real bad results in c and a

Postby Woodruff on Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:00 pm

owenshooter wrote:i am still confused by the admins saying they could only punish according the letter of the written CC laws and a warning was given because it was a first infraction.


Exactly what I have been saying. This is simply another, far more egregious example of the lack of consistency in rule enforcement on this site. Sadly, it's just a matter of favoritism.
Last edited by Woodruff on Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: real bad results in c and a

Postby king achilles on Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:01 pm

If another situation arises, then we will investigate it according to what the facts will show. It may or may not give a different result.

If you do not agree with the verdict, go to your local police station and file a complaint.

Also if this thread is going into 'crucifying' blitzaholic or any other person for that matter, then this thread needs to be locked. For those posts that you see as flaming/baiting or trolling, feel free to report all those posts that you deem as such.
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Re: real bad results in c and a

Postby Woodruff on Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:30 pm

king achilles wrote:If you do not agree with the verdict, go to your local police station and file a complaint.


Wow. I didn't think it could happen. I'm actually done with this site. The favoritism in this case is ridiculous. I'm voting with my money and my feet, effective immediately.

King Achilles, I'm thoroughly disappointed in you, not that you care since I'm not one of the favored ones anyway. Maybe someone can have Blitzaholic finish off my turns for me.
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Re: real bad results in c and a

Postby safariguy5 on Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:37 pm

owenshooter wrote:i am still confused by the admins saying they could only punish according the letter of the written CC laws and a warning was given because it was a first infraction. as a member that received a 6 month ban for an unwritten rule, which remains unwritten and which has never been enforced again (i was warned by a member of the jr. mint mod squad, but clapper dismissed that as not official), i know that CC can and does go off script in order to punish users. again, i find it amusing that infractions in the forum are dealt with more harshly than infractions/cheating in the game aspect of this site. when something affects the scoreboard, it affects us all. when something is done in the forums, it shakes up less than a whopping 3% of CC users who actually visit the forums. CC has stepped outside of the box in order to punish other members on the site when they deemed they had crossed a line that had never been seen or imagined before. and i am just really taken back by their silence on this matter. i just want a real explanation and for CC to plug a massive loophole that has been exposed in the points/rules of the game...-the black jesus

Yeah, this is definitely an example of the flaw of one size fits all policy that the C&A mods have set up. First offenses are all treated the same, whether they're forum flaming, secret diplomacy, or sitter abuse. That's like saying shoplifting and burglary are the same thing because the suspect did it the first time. Definitely would like to see an evaluation made of this system and some sort of update or revision seems to be in order.
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Re: real bad results in c and a

Postby Chariot of Fire on Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:43 pm

I'm with you Woodruff. This is bollocks. There is simply NO WAY I will renew my membership on a site that endorses cheating and hands out responses to concerned members such as that above by KA.

Some people here seem to be missing the point and think all that Blitz did was join some tourney games for Jobiwan and then fail to take those turns. Well it's not just that. Blitz set up a whole series of games, invited Jobiwan (even though Jobiwan had been missing turns in all his non-Blitz games and Blitz was aware of it) and then entered Jobiwan in all of the new games he created. This isn't sitting for someone anymore - this is blatantly controlling an account.

And don't anticipate this to be a trolling or flaming thread because that's not it's intent. We're not here to say Blitz is a cheat and point fingers at him - we've already ascertained that - we are here to determine what sort of punishment should be meted out for such infractions.

I think a poll in which over 65% of quite a considerable voting figure have said a points reset or some sort of ban would be appropriate speaks volumes, don't you?
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Re: real bad results in c and a

Postby Funkyterrance on Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:57 pm

Eddie thinks I am a multi? Where's the love man???!!!
For some reason I don't feel at all threatened by this :P
He will have a hard time proving this however since It is a completely false assumption lol.
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Re: real bad results in c and a

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:30 pm

I'm reluctant to play this card, but guys, this is the internet. Y'all need to calm down. There's no reason to quit Conquer Club because you disagree with how a cheater was punished. Frankly, what happens to Blitz should have no bearing on whether you enjoy playing your games.
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Re: real bad results in c and a

Postby QoH on Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:38 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:I'm reluctant to play this card, but guys, this is the internet. Y'all need to calm down. There's no reason to quit Conquer Club because you disagree with how a cheater was punished. Frankly, what happens to Blitz should have no bearing on whether you enjoy playing your games.

I haven't been reading every page, but I think what they are angry about is the inconsistency with the way the case has been handled by the Admin and Mods... And they don't want it to happen just because Blitz is the Conqueror. They want him treated the same as a cook would be

Am I on the right track?
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Re: real bad results in c and a

Postby Funkyterrance on Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:42 pm

I dunno, Woodruff has a point. I hope It doesn't come to him leaving and I appreciate his opinions but the best way to protest this kind of thing really is to take your money elsewhere. Just a majority vote by the community doesn't seem to hold much water in this issue. It's like when you get bad service at a restaurant; you can gripe and complain all you want but the only way you can really make a difference and really get the owner's attention is to diminish their customer base, starting with yourself.
I agree that KA's statement was inappropriate for an admin. Whatever a non-admin way say, it's an admin's job to remain cool. Bad form.
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Re: real bad results in c and a

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:03 pm

QoH wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:I'm reluctant to play this card, but guys, this is the internet. Y'all need to calm down. There's no reason to quit Conquer Club because you disagree with how a cheater was punished. Frankly, what happens to Blitz should have no bearing on whether you enjoy playing your games.

I haven't been reading every page, but I think what they are angry about is the inconsistency with the way the case has been handled by the Admin and Mods... And they don't want it to happen just because Blitz is the Conqueror. They want him treated the same as a cook would be

Am I on the right track?


QoH: That's basically right, people seem to believe that Blitz was let off lightly because of who he is. While that may or may not be accurate, the fact that Blitz is the Conqueror has cast quite a negative light on the whole controversy. Ironically, the people who think he's being treated differently only make a big deal out of this because he's the Conqueror; if this sort of "double standard" was followed in the C&A case of a private, there wouldn't be hundreds of posts about it. All in all, people just need to chill out, accept that the admins didn't feel that a ban/point reset was appropriate in this case, and move on. They should listen to the community on this issue, and enforce the rule more stringently in the future, but it would be ridiculous to go back and change the punishment now.
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Re: real bad results in c and a

Postby QoH on Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:22 pm

While I agree that the punishment was too light, I think that people should stop bitching; what's done is done, and we can't change it now.

However, if something like this happens again to a prominent member of the site, and the same treatment occurs, THEN people have the right to bitch, and shouldn't stop, because frankly, it would be ridiculous to see this happen again.
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Re: real bad results in c and a

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:35 pm

QoH wrote:However, if something like this happens again to a prominent member of the site, and the same treatment occurs, THEN people have the right to bitch, and shouldn't stop, because frankly, it would be ridiculous to see this happen again.


Indeed. KA's little fit of baiting aside, I assume the admins are aware of how the community feels about this issue (due to this thread) and will perhaps treat such situations differently in the future.
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Re: real bad results in c and a

Postby greenoaks on Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:47 pm

QoH wrote:While I agree that the punishment was too light, I think that people should stop bitching; what's done is done, and we can't change it now.

However, if something like this happens again to a prominent member of the site, and the same treatment occurs, THEN people have the right to bitch, and shouldn't stop, because frankly, it would be ridiculous to see this happen again.

that's crap, if another prominent member of the community does what he did then all they should get is a warning.

severe consequences are reserved for forum infringements.
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Re: real bad results in c and a

Postby Chariot of Fire on Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:48 pm

You are quite wrong. It has nothing to do with the fact he is Conqueror and everything to do with how he has conducted himself in the past and the very nature of his recent wrongdoing.

In Blitz's own words:

I have been conqueror for almost a year now, and several other times in the past, so, I don't need to cheat, in fact it goes against my own values as I have reported many cheats to the mods in private pm's over the years.


So here's a guy that lives by the rules and likes to use them to bring down others. Well now the shoe's on the other foot.

This is a site that relies on fair play and adopts a points system to govern a leaderboard. How do you think people such as myself - and doubtless others like me - feel when someone whose boasts we've had to read for years turns out to be a cheat?

He set up games. He then invited an absent player. He then logged into that account and accepted the invites and controlled that player's account. Is he kicked out of those games or given a points reset? No....he receives a warning, so it's all hunky dory in Conquerorland.

So what's the message I've got? That I can start some games and invite dormant TOFU members (whose passwords I possess) into those games and thereafter play their turns - and for this I will receive a warning as it's my first offence. Blitz has already received warnings in the past for his forum activities - and here's a third offence, a big one at that - but CC obviously loves him.

As for my membership and this being the internet. It's a game site equivalent of a game we all know very well. I don't think I'd like to sit a table where the player sitting next to me slips a few extra armies on to the board or starts playing on behalf of another guy sitting opposite me.
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Re: real bad results in c and a

Postby Robinette on Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:51 pm

Dukasaur wrote:
feels tainted. .... something that felt clean now feels dirty.

.... I have gradually gotten more and more irate as time goes on and I see just how big this thing was.



This seems to summarize the feelings of a large number of people here that have actually spend the time to look into this more closely...
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Re: real bad results in c and a

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:54 pm

Chariot of Fire wrote:You are quite wrong. It has nothing to do with the fact he is Conqueror and everything to do with how he has conducted himself in the past and the very nature of his recent wrongdoing.


The only reason anyone cares about his self-asserted honor is because he's the Conqueror. If he were just some random ranked 1300, no one would care that he was defending his "honor."

Anyway, you've been making this point throughout this thread but it's irrelevant. Sure he's a self-righteous jerk, but that shouldn't affect his punishment.
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Re: real bad results in c and a

Postby Funkyterrance on Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:00 pm

Don't people have a right to bitch as long as it is within the guidelines? Nobody is forcing you all to read this particular thread right? I am not trying to be a wiseguy I just think that the point of this thread is basically to vent and discuss the ruling. Someone could just as well say that you should just stop bitching about people bitching. Just because you personally have had enough doesn't mean the whole community has.
If this happens AGAIN to another player it would be unfair to give a different ruling unless this ruling is changed or possibly if the actual rules are changed. Since a vote was cast and the results are pretty obvious, it seems that those who think he should be left alone are severely in the minority. The majority of the poll votes opine that the ruling was not appropriate. You may argue: "well not EVERYONE took the poll". OK, then the next time anyone logs on there should be a poll that pops up asking all paying customers what they think. This would be a good way to exercise some democracy :). Otherwise, this is the best gauge you are going to have.
If this were a 1300 point player I would have just as much invested and be just as adamant about it. It just so happens that the case involves the conqueror and so there is a little more scandal which makes it a bit more interesting for some. The principle is really what is being discussed.
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Re: real bad results in c and a

Postby Chariot of Fire on Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:02 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Chariot of Fire wrote:You are quite wrong. It has nothing to do with the fact he is Conqueror and everything to do with how he has conducted himself in the past and the very nature of his recent wrongdoing.


The only reason anyone cares about his self-asserted honor is because he's the Conqueror. If he were just some random ranked 1300, no one would care that he was defending his "honor."

Anyway, you've been making this point throughout this thread but it's irrelevant. Sure he's a self-righteous jerk, but that shouldn't affect his punishment.


Making what 'point' exactly?
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Re: real bad results in c and a

Postby Robinette on Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:54 pm

Chariot of Fire wrote:...... I don't think I'd like to sit a table where the player sitting next to me slips a few extra armies on to the board or starts playing on behalf of another guy sitting opposite me.



hahaha... what a great way to say it...

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Re: real bad results in c and a

Postby Robinette on Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:56 pm

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Re: real bad results in c and a

Postby Funkyterrance on Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:57 pm

Or how about one player goes to the bathroom and the guy sitting across from you starts attacking for his own best interest with the absent player's armies.
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Re: real bad results in c and a

Postby jefjef on Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:42 pm

Funkyterrance wrote: OK, then the next time anyone logs on there should be a poll that pops up asking all paying customers what they think. This would be a good way to exercise some democracy :).


CC is NOT a democracy. It is a private business. The managers of this business made their decision which was fair and balanced and guided by their published rules.

These 21 pages of ranting and whining and mud slinging will only succeed in getting some of you in trouble with the powers to be...

This trash thread should be locked.
This post was made by jefjef who should be on your ignore list.
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drunkmonkey wrote:I'm filing a C&A report right now. Its nice because they have a drop-down for "jefjef".
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Colonel jefjef
 
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Re: real bad results in c and a

Postby Chariot of Fire on Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:56 pm

Love those cartoons Nette. The last one is incredibly apt.

I also believe a certain person should have a certain GC medal rescinded:

Medal Description: Awarded to members that made a noteworthy contribution to the website or community

Though I guess in fairness this is definitely noteworthy! It's gone in my little black book anyway.
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Highest position #5 (18 Nov 2010) General 4,380pts (11 Dec 2010)
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Re: real bad results in c and a

Postby Funkyterrance on Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:02 am

If you read my post carefully you will see that I never said that this site was a democracy I said it would be a good exercise in democracy :P
Gotcha!
I would however think that a private business would want to satisfy the majority of its customers.
That's just good business.
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