Team games Invite Abuse

[ljex]

Freestyle should just be abolished...

false

What you are describing is not invite abuse and is not against the rules.

I agree. But what if they do this, and then the situation occurs that ljex describes: instead of unwitting lambs for the slaughter a couple of knowledgeable players join and also invite a team mate that doesn't join immediately (basically doing the same as "the accused") to neutralize the advantage of "the accused" and suddenly "the accused" all drop the game? That IMO is gross abuse of unwritten rules, even worse than the ranching that GLG was warned for. I would love to hear the opinion of a C&A mod on this. Maybe someone should file a "test case".

Just as you have the right to join a game whenever you want...you may also drop out of any game whenever you want and for whatever reason you want.
Again, not abuse.

Is foe'ing a player because you don't want to play them again abuse?...how about foe'ing a player because you are chasing the random medal and need unique defeats and don't want to 'waste time' playing the same players again to get it?
The answer is no, again. You have the right to foe anyone, for any reason you want.

i agree it is not abuse...though i wouldn't be upset if it were deemed to be abuse.

That said i think it is at the very least another form of ranching and as somewhat dodgy tactic to gain points. I cant really say i care all that much, i have used my fair share of tactics to gain points...but this one seems to be more cheap than the average dodgy tactic used imo.

[Uncle Death]

Would it be possible when the last player joins in a freestyle game that the game not begin immediately and that there be a countdown to the start as well as notifications sent?

[tec805]

- tec805
- simmons4
- davsweeney

Here I am getting famous and didn't even know it because I had Mr. 3.2 rated foed. Wait, am I going to get a C&A report for foeing him without ever having played with him? Jiminy Cricket!

Of course we have great fun finding freestyle teams that are waiting for people to join like Game 10540735, though sometimes it bites you in the ass when you play a map you know well in standard and it doesn't play the same in freestyle. Game 10707072

2012-02-06 18:44:08 - jsnyder748: please refrian from joining my games in the future. I don't like being farmed.
Glad they didn't report us! jsnyder was nice enough to give us some good information in chat, worth a quick read. Game 10536485 Of course we honored his request not to join his games again, wouldn't want him perturbed at us.

Basically it comes down to who do you want to have the advantage of going first, your team or theirs? Personally I prefer the advantage. If you would like to play against us we would be happy to play you, but don't expect us to give you the first turn (sorry I turned down your offer to be on your team ljex, but you've been a little too confrontational in the past forum dealings to want to play on your side!)
☯

[codeblue1018]

What you are describing is not invite abuse and is not against the rules.

I agree. But what if they do this, and then the situation occurs that ljex describes: instead of unwitting lambs for the slaughter a couple of knowledgeable players join and also invite a team mate that doesn't join immediately (basically doing the same as "the accused") to neutralize the advantage of "the accused" and suddenly "the accused" all drop the game? That IMO is gross abuse of unwritten rules, even worse than the ranching that GLG was warned for. I would love to hear the opinion of a C&A mod on this. Maybe someone should file a "test case".

Just as you have the right to join a game whenever you want...you may also drop out of any game whenever you want and for whatever reason you want.
Again, not abuse.

Is foe'ing a player because you don't want to play them again abuse?...how about foe'ing a player because you are chasing the random medal and need unique defeats and don't want to 'waste time' playing the same players again to get it?
The answer is no, again. You have the right to foe anyone, for any reason you want.

LMS, think outside the friendship box mate. You are correct; it's not cheating. It's ranching unsuspecting players no matter how you paint it. Prime example is what ljax described. They are also joining team 2 games, minus the third player of course until such time team 1 gets a team together; freemiums, inexperienced players. Bottom line, its cheap play mate in which most experienced players could climb the scoreboard with ease as they are currently doing. Takes no skill whatsoever. Its amazes me what others will do to rise up the ranks; very respectable

[codeblue1018]

- tec805
- simmons4
- davsweeney

Here I am getting famous and didn't even know it because I had Mr. 3.2 rated foed. Wait, am I going to get a C&A report for foeing him without ever having played with him? Jiminy Cricket!

Of course we have great fun finding freestyle teams that are waiting for people to join like Game 10540735, though sometimes it bites you in the ass when you play a map you know well in standard and it doesn't play the same in freestyle. Game 10707072

2012-02-06 18:44:08 - jsnyder748: please refrian from joining my games in the future. I don't like being farmed.
Glad they didn't report us! jsnyder was nice enough to give us some good information in chat, worth a quick read. Game 10536485 Of course we honored his request not to join his games again, wouldn't want him perturbed at us.

Basically it comes down to who do you want to have the advantage of going first, your team or theirs? Personally I prefer the advantage. If you would like to play against us we would be happy to play you, but don't expect us to give you the first turn (sorry I turned down your offer to be on your team ljex, but you've been a little too confrontational in the past forum dealings to want to play on your side!)
☯

Really? That's it?

Mate, it's ok; keep up the good work. Your inflated rank due to extremely cheap play speaks volumes. Surely you will be respected more than you already are as a PACK member eh?

One thing is positive from all this just as in the GLG case; these types of legalized methods (at least for now) have to occur in order for rules to be adopted for the future. So, we thank you Tec. Seems jsnyder thought the same, no?

[fusibaseball]

Glad to see a thread on this, thanks tsio

Nothing serious will be done since these are casuals and they are starting the games, just as nothing is done to modify what our current conqueror's abusive methods are. I just hope the general community becomes more aware of the ranching that these three are doing and stop giving them free points.

[L M S]

What you are describing is not invite abuse and is not against the rules.

I agree. But what if they do this, and then the situation occurs that ljex describes: instead of unwitting lambs for the slaughter a couple of knowledgeable players join and also invite a team mate that doesn't join immediately (basically doing the same as "the accused") to neutralize the advantage of "the accused" and suddenly "the accused" all drop the game? That IMO is gross abuse of unwritten rules, even worse than the ranching that GLG was warned for. I would love to hear the opinion of a C&A mod on this. Maybe someone should file a "test case".

Just as you have the right to join a game whenever you want...you may also drop out of any game whenever you want and for whatever reason you want.
Again, not abuse.

Is foe'ing a player because you don't want to play them again abuse?...how about foe'ing a player because you are chasing the random medal and need unique defeats and don't want to 'waste time' playing the same players again to get it?
The answer is no, again. You have the right to foe anyone, for any reason you want.

LMS, think outside the friendship box mate. You are correct; it's not cheating. It's ranching unsuspecting players no matter how you paint it. Prime example is what ljax described. They are also joining team 2 games, minus the third player of course until such time team 1 gets a team together; freemiums, inexperienced players. Bottom line, its cheap play mate in which most experienced players could climb the scoreboard with ease as they are currently doing. Takes no skill whatsoever. Its amazes me what others will do to rise up the ranks; very respectable

I am.
These guys may be friends but I can tell you that they aren't the only ones doing it and some of the other players employing this smart way to play are definitely NOT my friends. I'll even go so far as admitting I have waited until all the other players joined before joining a freestyle game too. (GASP) I don't think its a "cheap" way to play and God knows the scoreboard is bogus anyway as a determination of the best player on CC, it's merely a representation of the player best at collecting points....the two are not the same, not even close.

I know how to collect points and have done it...thing is I don't give a damn about them or my rank. Do you really think that MY current rank is an accurate representation of my skill on CC? I have gone from 3744 to 1120 in 3 weeks and back to 3200 in a month, again and again simply by choosing the "right" style of game, and so could anyone else and they don't have to be so called "farming or ranching" games to do it. My 6 years of CC experience and nearly 10,000 games played, clan experience, team experience, map experience, specialty map diversity....I could go on and on....is an accurate representation of my CC skill.

Next thing you know we will have a cute little term describing the unfair advantage one team has over another because they all are communicating in real time over SKYPE and that is unfair to inexperienced players who don't...

edit:
AND, my respect for Tec805 (et al) comes from their incredible skill at playing, specifically, the Stalingrad map. We have been in some epic games on that map both with and against each other. Those guys know what they are doing on any map and I suspect are just having a good time playing the game the way they want to from time to time and there isn't a damn thing wrong with that.

[codeblue1018]

What you are describing is not invite abuse and is not against the rules.

I agree. But what if they do this, and then the situation occurs that ljex describes: instead of unwitting lambs for the slaughter a couple of knowledgeable players join and also invite a team mate that doesn't join immediately (basically doing the same as "the accused") to neutralize the advantage of "the accused" and suddenly "the accused" all drop the game? That IMO is gross abuse of unwritten rules, even worse than the ranching that GLG was warned for. I would love to hear the opinion of a C&A mod on this. Maybe someone should file a "test case".

Just as you have the right to join a game whenever you want...you may also drop out of any game whenever you want and for whatever reason you want.
Again, not abuse.

Is foe'ing a player because you don't want to play them again abuse?...how about foe'ing a player because you are chasing the random medal and need unique defeats and don't want to 'waste time' playing the same players again to get it?
The answer is no, again. You have the right to foe anyone, for any reason you want.

LMS, think outside the friendship box mate. You are correct; it's not cheating. It's ranching unsuspecting players no matter how you paint it. Prime example is what ljax described. They are also joining team 2 games, minus the third player of course until such time team 1 gets a team together; freemiums, inexperienced players. Bottom line, its cheap play mate in which most experienced players could climb the scoreboard with ease as they are currently doing. Takes no skill whatsoever. Its amazes me what others will do to rise up the ranks; very respectable

I am.
These guys may be friends but I can tell you that they aren't the only ones doing it and some of the other players employing this smart way to play are definitely NOT my friends. I'll even go so far as admitting I have waited until all the other players joined before joining a freestyle game too. (GASP) I don't think its a "cheap" way to play and God knows the scoreboard is bogus anyway as a determination of the best player on CC, it's merely a representation of the player best at collecting points....the two are not the same, not even close.

I know how to collect points and have done it...thing is I don't give a damn about them or my rank. Do you really think that MY current rank is an accurate representation of my skill on CC? I have gone from 3744 to 1120 in 3 weeks and back to 3200 in a month, again and again simply by choosing the "right" style of game, and so could anyone else and they don't have to so called "farming or ranching" games to do it. My 6 years of CC experience and nearly 10,000 games played, clan experience, team experience, map experience, specialty map diversity....I could go on and on....is an accurate representation of my CC skill.

Next thing you know we will have a cute little term describing the unfair advantage one team has over another because they all are communicating in real time over SKYPE and that is unfair to inexperienced players who don't...

edit:
AND, my respect for Tec805 (et al) comes from their incredible skill at playing, specifically, the Stalingrad map. We have been in some epic games on that map both with and against each other. Those guys know what they are doing on any map and I suspect are just having a good time playing the game the way they want to from time to time and there isn't a damn thing wrong with that.

LMS, I agree with most of what you said. We can agree to disagree however, that what they are currently doing is cheap play. As you said, many other teams are playing just like these PACK members, so shouldn't we discuss this in attempts to try and level the playing field between both teams? I've been around a long time also mate; that said, remember the scoreboard in late 06, early 07 and maybe up to 09? The top of the scoreboard consisted of reputable players and a respected #1 position; why? Wouldn't you like to see that happen again? It was something to climb the scoreboard when it actually meant something to have a decent rank, no? Thats all id like to see mate; it's not a PACK bash bro; they just simply are in that clan.

[L M S]

I got you CB for sure, but I think you are mis-remembering the scoreboard a little bit....even though we didn't have cute pet names for all the stuff, it was still happening. Back then we called them "map-specialists' instead and the uproar was about that, freestyle has been continuously controversial.

What I also remember from those days is how much simpler everything was.
For example:
No invites. (personally I think the invite system did a TON of damage to CC, way more damage than good, jmo...)
Fewer options.
Fewer maps. (although it is a benefit in my mind to have the variety we have now)


p.s. I am not defending The PACK per-se and never interpreted this as a PACK bash.

[codeblue1018]

I got you CB for sure, but I think you are mis-remembering the scoreboard a little bit....even though we didn't have cute pet names for all the stuff, it was still happening. Back then we called them "map-specialists' instead and the uproar was about that, freestyle has been continuously controversial.

What I also remember from those days is how much simpler everything was.
For example:
No invites. (personally I think the invite system did a TON of damage to CC, way more than good, imo...)
Fewer options.
Fewer maps. (although it is a benefit in my mind to have the variety we have now)

Agree LMS; much easier back in the day as the map of choice was of course, classic. With a no invite system, I remember players such as Jork who would ALWAYS set team games up and he played with whoever joined his team; whether is was a striper or a person of high rank. This is, he won 80% of his games and possessed a high score for today's scoreboard back then. This is respectable. Although probably wishful thinking, but I would love to take back then and merge it with current and see if that comes to a good mix. Yes, invites put a major damper on this site.

[betiko]

well, i play some of those games once in a while, and beleive it or not, i do think it's fun to coordinate everything and having the tension to know if the other team is going to start its turn or not and everything.
I have been doing some team freestyles about a year ago and got farmed as well because my team had a full roster already in and a team 2 arrived and coordinated stuff.
so if there is something wrong here, it's team freestyles, not the fact of playing team freestyle the best way possible.
I also think freestyle in general is gross abuse; as i have a slow computer and i m far from the CC servers; i can play vs some american guys and he can have killed 6 territories i still don't see the 1st one he killed yet.
freestyle is just a complete different game from sequential; just make 2 scoreboards and everyone will be happy. In the meanwhile, don't blame people for playing games with settings they like (i personally do it for medal hunting trips+freestyle+nuclear+manual+random all at once, you can't beat those settings for effective medal hunting)
GLG plays ONLY low ranks and 99% on his farming settings and he got warned for playing only this way; not for playing a few of those.
Also I wanted to ad that it's really not about the team 2 that joins; it's really about getting the start advantage... there are so many tricks used by freestyle players anyway.

[Lindax]

Freestyle should just be abolished...

Or made a separate part of the site, with it's own scoreboard.

Lx

[codeblue1018]

well, i play some of those games once in a while, and beleive it or not, i do think it's fun to coordinate everything and having the tension to know if the other team is going to start its turn or not and everything.
I have been doing some team freestyles about a year ago and got farmed as well because my team had a full roster already in and a team 2 arrived and coordinated stuff.
so if there is something wrong here, it's team freestyles, not the fact of playing team freestyle the best way possible.
I also think freestyle in general is gross abuse; as i have a slow computer and i m far from the CC servers; i can play vs some american guys and he can have killed 6 territories i still don't see the 1st one he killed yet.
freestyle is just a complete different game from sequential; just make 2 scoreboards and everyone will be happy. In the meanwhile, don't blame people for playing games with settings they like (i personally do it for medal hunting trips+freestyle+nuclear+manual+random all at once, you can't beat those settings for effective medal hunting)
GLG plays ONLY low ranks and 99% on his farming settings and he got warned for playing only this way; not for playing a few of those.
Also I wanted to ad that it's really not about the team 2 that joins; it's really about getting the start advantage... there are so many tricks used by freestyle players anyway.

Agree, two scoreboards would be great; I'd like to see it. As far as tec's team; the way they play mate, they will ALWAYS start first or it will be dropped if team 2 doesn't fill. They make it so their invited player will be the last player that joins and all will be online at the same time and then the turn is taken and the game is basically over after their first turn. This is why this is cheap play. It's not the game play itself perse, it's the way it's started/joined and the turn is taken in concert. It's basically free points. Understand what people see as a problem here? It's a simple, legalized way to play freestyle, which gives their opponents virtually no chance at winning. as I said, it's cheap.

[tsioumiou]

What you are describing is not invite abuse and is not against the rules.

I agree. But what if they do this, and then the situation occurs that ljex describes: instead of unwitting lambs for the slaughter a couple of knowledgeable players join and also invite a team mate that doesn't join immediately (basically doing the same as "the accused") to neutralize the advantage of "the accused" and suddenly "the accused" all drop the game? That IMO is gross abuse of unwritten rules, even worse than the ranching that GLG was warned for. I would love to hear the opinion of a C&A mod on this. Maybe someone should file a "test case".

Just as you have the right to join a game whenever you want...you may also drop out of any game whenever you want and for whatever reason you want.
Again, not abuse.

Is foe'ing a player because you don't want to play them again abuse?...how about foe'ing a player because you are chasing the random medal and need unique defeats and don't want to 'waste time' playing the same players again to get it?
The answer is no, again. You have the right to foe anyone, for any reason you want.

LMS, think outside the friendship box mate. You are correct; it's not cheating. It's ranching unsuspecting players no matter how you paint it. Prime example is what ljax described. They are also joining team 2 games, minus the third player of course until such time team 1 gets a team together; freemiums, inexperienced players. Bottom line, its cheap play mate in which most experienced players could climb the scoreboard with ease as they are currently doing. Takes no skill whatsoever. Its amazes me what others will do to rise up the ranks; very respectable

I am.
These guys may be friends but I can tell you that they aren't the only ones doing it and some of the other players employing this smart way to play are definitely NOT my friends. I'll even go so far as admitting I have waited until all the other players joined before joining a freestyle game too. (GASP) I don't think its a "cheap" way to play and God knows the scoreboard is bogus anyway as a determination of the best player on CC, it's merely a representation of the player best at collecting points....the two are not the same, not even close.

I know how to collect points and have done it...thing is I don't give a damn about them or my rank. Do you really think that MY current rank is an accurate representation of my skill on CC? I have gone from 3744 to 1120 in 3 weeks and back to 3200 in a month, again and again simply by choosing the "right" style of game, and so could anyone else and they don't have to be so called "farming or ranching" games to do it. My 6 years of CC experience and nearly 10,000 games played, clan experience, team experience, map experience, specialty map diversity....I could go on and on....is an accurate representation of my CC skill.

Next thing you know we will have a cute little term describing the unfair advantage one team has over another because they all are communicating in real time over SKYPE and that is unfair to inexperienced players who don't...

edit:
AND, my respect for Tec805 (et al) comes from their incredible skill at playing, specifically, the Stalingrad map. We have been in some epic games on that map both with and against each other. Those guys know what they are doing on any map and I suspect are just having a good time playing the game the way they want to from time to time and there isn't a damn thing wrong with that.

What are you talking about guys?

This is 100% abuse

Second team has NO CHANCE AT ALL from the min they join

On triples doodle even with an extremely bad dice they can easily eliminate at least one player. How can this be allowed? Ive been hearing about farming strategies for years now but i think this is the worst kind ever.

[The Voice]

I am concerned labeling this as abuse might be the start of a very slippery sloop that leads to the eventual banning of freestyle altogether. Sequential (really anything/everything) can be abused. So, if team 1 (whoever they are; it's not very clear to me who you've seen doing this) didn't coerce players from team 2 to join through private messages and invites, this will probably be deemed as nothing more than a cheap tactic.