When is breaking a truce justifiable?

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Re: When is breaking a truce justifiable?

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:12 am

Viceroy63 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:As Sun Tzu says, the successful general is one who wins the war without deploying a single soldier. I'm still figuring out how to apply this to ConquerClub....

Imagine a scenario where everyone in the game misses turns and deadbeats. The winner, if they similarly missed turns and never deployed would have deadbeated, but the game crowns them the victor without ever deploying a single soldier. Ha.

Not really a strategy one can employ though on command!


--Andy
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Re: When is breaking a truce justifiable?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:28 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:In a way this is also a role playing game but the thing is that we carry our roles into every game we play. So if we break our agreements then eventually our reputations will proceed us.

If we make a truce it should be towards a certain specific round. For example: "Pink, can we have a truce until round 18?" Then on round 18 the first player to go can fire on.

BigBallinStalin wrote:As Sun Tzu says, the successful general is one who wins the war without deploying a single soldier. I'm still figuring out how to apply this to ConquerClub....


That's too deep for me man. LOL.


Haha, don't be discouraged. It goes like this:


You undermine the State, or create/take advantage of a tension between its rulers and their people. This renders the State/political leaders' ability to craft policy and wage war less effective. Much of this is performed through the 5th column (spies). A longer framework would incorporate making alliances against the enemy (or engaging in mutual trade embargos/sanctions). The internal pressure increases, and the external threat of force (from your own forces and from your allies) would hopefully force the enemy to sue for peace---before the physical war has even begun.

Thus, the successful general is one who wins the war without deploying a single soldier.
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Re: When is breaking a truce justifiable?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:33 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:As Sun Tzu says, the successful general is one who wins the war without deploying a single soldier. I'm still figuring out how to apply this to ConquerClub....

Imagine a scenario where everyone in the game misses turns and deadbeats. The winner, if they similarly missed turns and never deployed would have deadbeated, but the game crowns them the victor without ever deploying a single soldier. Ha.

Not really a strategy one can employ though on command!


--Andy


Have you noticed the domestic turmoil as of late? Declining numbers, people are pissed at the mods, they demand lackattack, no response for lackattack! THE END TIMES ARE NIGH!

WHO IS RESPONSIBLE!!

MAJORCOMMAND.COM, THAT'S WHO!

They've read Sun Tzu's Art of War. They're manipulating us against ourselves. We'll show them...... YES... we'll show them all right.


(inb4 Andy joke, "Everyone! Man your Banana Stations!")
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Re: When is breaking a truce justifiable?

Postby jimboston on Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:46 am

I think by warning him you are essentially giving notice that the alliance or truce is over. Thus there is no more truce at that point. If you attacked with no warning that would not be kosher.
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Re: When is breaking a truce justifiable?

Postby Serbia on Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:47 pm

Truces are meant to be broken. Yeah, it might be "cheap" to break a truce without warning, but hey, we're all playing to win, right? Next time, don't enter into a truce. Or if you do, never fully trust anyone. That's a surefire way to lose.

(I rarely enter into truces, ftr - can't remember the last time I did)
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Re: When is breaking a truce justifiable?

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:14 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:In a way this is also a role playing game but the thing is that we carry our roles into every game we play. So if we break our agreements then eventually our reputations will proceed us.

If we make a truce it should be towards a certain specific round. For example: "Pink, can we have a truce until round 18?" Then on round 18 the first player to go can fire on.

BigBallinStalin wrote:As Sun Tzu says, the successful general is one who wins the war without deploying a single soldier. I'm still figuring out how to apply this to ConquerClub....


That's too deep for me man. LOL.


Haha, don't be discouraged. It goes like this:


You undermine the State, or create/take advantage of a tension between its rulers and their people. This renders the State/political leaders' ability to craft policy and wage war less effective. Much of this is performed through the 5th column (spies). A longer framework would incorporate making alliances against the enemy (or engaging in mutual trade embargos/sanctions). The internal pressure increases, and the external threat of force (from your own forces and from your allies) would hopefully force the enemy to sue for peace---before the physical war has even begun.

Thus, the successful general is one who wins the war without deploying a single soldier.


That sounds like a lot of work...
I always took it to mean that if you slowly explain to your enemy that resistance is pointless, the actual fighting becomes merely a formality.
Also, peace is not the goal, victory is the goal.
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Re: When is breaking a truce justifiable?

Postby Gillipig on Mon Aug 27, 2012 1:29 pm

ConquerClub is just not advanced enough to encompass all of Sun Tzu's philosophies. So we can ignore his "supreme excellence is to defeat your enemies without fighting". However great it is.
This one is one can be followed however:
'There are roads which must not be followed, armies which must not be attacked, towns which must not be besieged,positions which must not be contested.'
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Re: When is breaking a truce justifiable?

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Aug 27, 2012 2:10 pm

Gillipig wrote:ConquerClub is just not advanced enough to encompass all of Sun Tzu's philosophies. So we can ignore his "supreme excellence is to defeat your enemies without fighting". However great it is.
This one is one can be followed however:
'There are roads which must not be followed, armies which must not be attacked, towns which must not be besieged,positions which must not be contested.'


Sounds reasonable. O:)
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Re: When is breaking a truce justifiable?

Postby Viceroy63 on Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:35 pm

The only real way that I see where a player can win without deploying a single troop is to have such a huge reputation for awesomely winning games and putting other players to shame, that he simply stares his opponents into deadbeating on the game. LOL.
:lol:
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Re: When is breaking a truce justifiable?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:02 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:In a way this is also a role playing game but the thing is that we carry our roles into every game we play. So if we break our agreements then eventually our reputations will proceed us.

If we make a truce it should be towards a certain specific round. For example: "Pink, can we have a truce until round 18?" Then on round 18 the first player to go can fire on.

BigBallinStalin wrote:As Sun Tzu says, the successful general is one who wins the war without deploying a single soldier. I'm still figuring out how to apply this to ConquerClub....


That's too deep for me man. LOL.


Haha, don't be discouraged. It goes like this:


You undermine the State, or create/take advantage of a tension between its rulers and their people. This renders the State/political leaders' ability to craft policy and wage war less effective. Much of this is performed through the 5th column (spies). A longer framework would incorporate making alliances against the enemy (or engaging in mutual trade embargos/sanctions). The internal pressure increases, and the external threat of force (from your own forces and from your allies) would hopefully force the enemy to sue for peace---before the physical war has even begun.

Thus, the successful general is one who wins the war without deploying a single soldier.


That sounds like a lot of work...
I always took it to mean that if you slowly explain to your enemy that resistance is pointless, the actual fighting becomes merely a formality.
Also, peace is not the goal, victory is the goal.


An enemy cannot rely solely on your explanations. You have to change his incentives and his mental calculations in order to convince him.

Victory can be many things. If your goal is to extract wealth from the defeated, then you can demand money when the enemy sues for peace--without having to use your armies. That would be a victory.

Another victory is the pursuit of total war, or war at all costs, and according to Sun Tzu, that ain't a victory but an inevitable loss for both sides.
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Re: When is breaking a truce justifiable?

Postby WILLIAMS5232 on Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:10 pm

....such is life.
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Re: When is breaking a truce justifiable?

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:16 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:


That sounds like a lot of work...
I always took it to mean that if you slowly explain to your enemy that resistance is pointless, the actual fighting becomes merely a formality.
Also, peace is not the goal, victory is the goal.[/quote]

An enemy cannot rely solely on your explanations. You have to change his incentives and his mental calculations in order to convince him.

Victory can be many things. If your goal is to extract wealth from the defeated, then you can demand money when the enemy sues for peace--without having to use your armies. That would be a victory.

Another victory is the pursuit of total war, or war at all costs, and according to Sun Tzu, that ain't a victory but an inevitable loss for both sides.[/quote]

Ooh, I like it when you talk dirty!
Victory without battle and through sheer presense alone. This is the idyllic wartime scenario.
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Re: When is breaking a truce justifiable?

Postby Viceroy63 on Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:01 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:In a way this is also a role playing game but the thing is that we carry our roles into every game we play. So if we break our agreements then eventually our reputations will proceed us.

If we make a truce it should be towards a certain specific round. For example: "Pink, can we have a truce until round 18?" Then on round 18 the first player to go can fire on.

BigBallinStalin wrote:As Sun Tzu says, the successful general is one who wins the war without deploying a single soldier. I'm still figuring out how to apply this to ConquerClub....


That's too deep for me man. LOL.


Haha, don't be discouraged. It goes like this:


You undermine the State, or create/take advantage of a tension between its rulers and their people. This renders the State/political leaders' ability to craft policy and wage war less effective. Much of this is performed through the 5th column (spies). A longer framework would incorporate making alliances against the enemy (or engaging in mutual trade embargos/sanctions). The internal pressure increases, and the external threat of force (from your own forces and from your allies) would hopefully force the enemy to sue for peace---before the physical war has even begun.

Thus, the successful general is one who wins the war without deploying a single soldier.


OK; But whether you employ spies or the agents of Chaos to undermine the state or opponent, are you not still deploying a troop. Maybe not a military troop but deploying some one none the less? Or am I wrong about that? =)
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Re: When is breaking a truce justifiable?

Postby NipzBGD on Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:53 pm

What a twunt!12141551
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Re: When is breaking a truce justifiable?

Postby Georgerx7di on Thu Jan 24, 2013 10:21 pm

You can only break a truce on Tuesday
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Re: When is breaking a truce justifiable?

Postby IcePack on Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:08 pm

Georgerx7di wrote:You can only break a truce on Tuesday


Or on a blue moon.
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12:11:16 ‹Swifte› good thing we have the beta program to weed all these problems out
12:15:00 * IcePack joins Social
12:15:35 ‹Swifte› well that's just bad timing
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Re: When is breaking a truce justifiable?

Postby luns101 on Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:00 am

I was in a game once where Serbia broke his truce with Neutral...wasn't pretty.
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Re: When is breaking a truce justifiable?

Postby oVo on Mon Jan 28, 2013 1:44 am

I can remember a player bombarding a neutral into oblivion,
then complaining that they lost bulbous numbers of armies
and the neutral was still occupying the territory.

Don't remember if it was a Tuesday or if they were actually truced.
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Re: When is breaking a truce justifiable?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:00 pm

Viceroy63 wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Viceroy63 wrote:In a way this is also a role playing game but the thing is that we carry our roles into every game we play. So if we break our agreements then eventually our reputations will proceed us.

If we make a truce it should be towards a certain specific round. For example: "Pink, can we have a truce until round 18?" Then on round 18 the first player to go can fire on.

BigBallinStalin wrote:As Sun Tzu says, the successful general is one who wins the war without deploying a single soldier. I'm still figuring out how to apply this to ConquerClub....


That's too deep for me man. LOL.


Haha, don't be discouraged. It goes like this:


You undermine the State, or create/take advantage of a tension between its rulers and their people. This renders the State/political leaders' ability to craft policy and wage war less effective. Much of this is performed through the 5th column (spies). A longer framework would incorporate making alliances against the enemy (or engaging in mutual trade embargos/sanctions). The internal pressure increases, and the external threat of force (from your own forces and from your allies) would hopefully force the enemy to sue for peace---before the physical war has even begun.

Thus, the successful general is one who wins the war without deploying a single soldier.


OK; But whether you employ spies or the agents of Chaos to undermine the state or opponent, are you not still deploying a troop. Maybe not a military troop but deploying some one none the less? Or am I wrong about that? =)


No, because troops are troops/soldiers. Spies are "the 5th column" and are not soldiers. Sun Tzu's advice can be implemented through diplomatic means as well. The main point is that wars can be won without even fighting on the battlefield, and the generals who can accomplish this feat are perhaps 'teh best'.
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Re: When is breaking a truce justifiable?

Postby sunking25 on Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:09 pm

imo you should give 2 rounds notice to end the truce before attacking, if you can't agree to these terms you shouldn't enter into a truce in the first place. I only enter into truces if it benefits me, if it don't benefit me then i don't agree to one. The only time you could break a truce is if the game becomes heads up/2 players.
If breaking a truce would lead to you winning, you still shouldn't break it as it is not fair on the guy you've made a deal with with, I see this as stabbing him in the back and very unethical.
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Re: When is breaking a truce justifiable?

Postby HardAttack on Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:17 pm

danryan wrote:It's always justifiable. Just be prepared to deal with the consequences.


sir, mind to give examples, mind to explain what these consequences might be ? :lol:

my answer to the OP,
you can ask for truce and 30 secs later you can break the truce...up to you, ethics, value, moral side, what do they mean really ? :lol: :lol:
for example red player and you are green...ask red player for truce, then in same round you break truce...well, i AM UNSURE, is it any cheat ? i dont think so....
even try to see your chances if you can convince your opponent to make truce in 1v1 games...who knows what happens...it is like rolling 7 with 6 sided cube dice, and some ppl around the site call it they are capable to do so...

gl OP maker.
O:)
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