Strategy versus Dice

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Re: Strategy versus Dice

Postby AslanTheKing on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:42 am

Above was written by Kaskavel, and i am very happy to read from a conquerer alot of information, enjoy.
I used to roll the daizz
Feel the fear in my enemy´s eyes
Listen as the crowd would sing:

Long live the Army Of Kings !


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Re: Strategy versus Dice

Postby AslanTheKing on Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:00 pm

Since the subject is strategy vs. dice, i am wondering , how come nobody is contributing any experience , has nobody except those who wrote something,
anything to contribute?
you can ask questions 2, i might not have the experience to answer it, but somebody will, come on guys, show some interest,

or is the dice stronger than strategy?
than were back to 70 percent dice and 30 percent strategy- that cant be - or ?
I used to roll the daizz
Feel the fear in my enemy´s eyes
Listen as the crowd would sing:

Long live the Army Of Kings !


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Re: Strategy versus Dice

Postby AslanTheKing on Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:06 pm

i will ask something interesting again, some will understand me, some want, or cant be bothered

if i play in a tournament the same guy in 2 different games , and i am having better dice on the first game, straggly on the second game
the dice is against me, like it is balancing the dice, i have realised that now many times,

now the randomness comes to my mind, and my logical thinking goes berserk, it doesnt make sense, just a coincidence?

so strategically speaking, if i play the same guy in 2 different games, and i know i will win game 1 anyhow, is it smart to let him take
or kill me as far as he can, so i have a better chance for the second game?
I used to roll the daizz
Feel the fear in my enemy´s eyes
Listen as the crowd would sing:

Long live the Army Of Kings !


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Re: Strategy versus Dice

Postby AslanTheKing on Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:11 pm

another thing is, if i play classic escalating and i try 6vs3 against a higher rated opponent i lose most of the time and cant get a spoil,
if i chose to go against a lower rated opponent , mostly i succeed and get my spoil,
and this is really killing my logical thinking, have u experienced something like that?
so strategically we should attack only somebody who is lower rated then ourselves to get that important spoil card ?
any input here?
I used to roll the daizz
Feel the fear in my enemy´s eyes
Listen as the crowd would sing:

Long live the Army Of Kings !


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Re: Strategy versus Dice

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:22 pm

AslanTheKing wrote:another thing is, if i play classic escalating and i try 6vs3 against a higher rated opponent i lose most of the time and cant get a spoil,
if i chose to go against a lower rated opponent , mostly i succeed and get my spoil,
and this is really killing my logical thinking, have u experienced something like that?
so strategically we should attack only somebody who is lower rated then ourselves to get that important spoil card ?
any input here?


I have found that if I do the Twist before each roll, I mostly succeed. Strategically, I am going to suggest we all do the Twist before each roll.




--Andy
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Re: Strategy versus Dice

Postby AslanTheKing on Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:13 pm

andy youre so funny, i like that, unfortunately they want let me watch that nice video u put in, in germany we cant watch all youtube videos,
it says

Dieses Video ist in Deutschland nicht verfügbar, weil es möglicherweise Musik enthält, für die die erforderlichen Musikrechte von der GEMA
nicht eingeräumt wurden.
I used to roll the daizz
Feel the fear in my enemy´s eyes
Listen as the crowd would sing:

Long live the Army Of Kings !


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Re: Strategy versus Dice

Postby suparolo on Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:37 pm

I feel that its like anything that has a factor of luck. You will have good stretches, and bad stretches. Those stretches can determine a win or a lose streak, independent of strategy. Its just the nature of dice. Over time of course it will even out, but the number of rolls you could have bad could be weeks on end before it evens. Months even. Blaming one game on bad dice is entirely feasible, all the strategy in the world wont help rolling strait ones. You can lose games entirely based on dice, and you can have that happen a number of games in a row. Overall strategy will be the decider, but for stretches it can be dice.
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Re: Strategy versus Dice

Postby frankiebee on Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:44 pm

AslanTheKing wrote:Since the subject is strategy vs. dice, i am wondering , how come nobody is contributing any experience , has nobody except those who wrote something,
anything to contribute?
you can ask questions 2, i might not have the experience to answer it, but somebody will, come on guys, show some interest,

or is the dice stronger than strategy?
than were back to 70 percent dice and 30 percent strategy- that cant be - or ?


My opinion is that the dice is always random. Sometimes you have a little luck, sometimes the dice is against you, and sometimes its pretty even. The key to success is to first determine what your goal is. Do you want to have fun or get as many points as you can. If you want to score points than you have to find a way to let strategy be more important then luck.

When you play a 1on1 game on classic with sequential, flat rate, chained and sunny luck is a big big big factor. When both players know what they are doing (and most players will know with these settings) the dice will probably decide the winner. When you want strategy to be more important game selection is crucial, choose a game where you have an advantage and where luck is less important.

I can give an example for myself. I have been playing Conquerclub since 2006, and most of the time I've had a score a little under or above 2000. I played alot of 1on1 on relativly easy maps and 6 or 8 player escalating games. 1 month ago I decided to try to get to colonel (2500 points) and started to specialise on one map and settings. I started to play antartica 1on1 with trench and my scores are:

Antarctica 1vs1
Points: +441
Games: 32 from 36(Win:89%)

When luck would decide everything I would have won 50% but I've won 89%. That means that in the games I played with these settings dice were not crucial, in some games I had very good dice, in some games very bad, but I still managed to win 9 out of 10 games, because with these particular settings strategy became more important.

This can also be done with games with more players, if you look for Thai Robert score for 6,7,8 player games on World 2.1 you'll find:

World 2.11
Points +1365
Games 53 from 83(Win:64%)

A massive 64% win on 6,7,8 player games proves that this player found a way to be less dependable on the dice.

So that's my opinion, dice are a huge factor, but you can choose with your settings to let the luck percentage drop and let strategy be more important, and when you make sure you have the best strategy, you will win more points.
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Re: Strategy versus Dice

Postby waltero on Wed Dec 19, 2012 10:21 pm

If you wonder why Grog nards do not consider this a real war game. It is because of the dice. too much dice to consider it game of Strategy. It is a game of dice
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Re: Strategy versus Dice

Postby ZeekLTK on Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:47 am

I think playing trench can help take the power away from the dice.

In "normal" games - if your opponent gets good dice then he can run you off the map, and if you get bad dice then it can really put you in a weak position (which will then get you run off the map).

However, in trench games, if your opponent gets good dice, then he still only takes out one (or at most a few) of your territories and you have a chance to respond. If you get bad dice attacking, then yes it weakens you, but only on that ONE spot that you got bad dice at. It's much less swingy, so even if you get bad dice (or your opponent gets good dice) for a few turns, the dice will eventually even out DURING THAT GAME, and whoever wins will generally be the one who had better strategy/diplomacy.

The only way dice will really cost you in trench is if you somehow get really bad luck, and either just KEEP failing to win attacks that statistically you should win, or if your opponent KEEPS getting really good dice and is constantly winning battles he shouldn't win as often. And by this I mean, it would need to happen for several turns in a row in order to make a significant difference in the outcome. But that is pretty unlikely to happen for long periods of time over the course of a whole trench game.
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Re: Strategy versus Dice

Postby waltero on Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:13 pm

I agree.
I believe that the more Variants you have in a game like this, would subdue the overwhelming "dice factor".

I have purposed more than a few suggestions in an attempt to make this a game worthy.
CC Biggest hang up On most all suggestions is the coding.

I think that Card play could take away the luck of the dice. No need to change the cards...just the way in which they are played.

I do think that CC are happy with what they got.
this will always be a game of dice. Either you like it or you don't
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Re: Strategy versus Dice

Postby frankiebee on Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:19 pm

ZeekLTK wrote:I think playing trench can help take the power away from the dice.

In "normal" games - if your opponent gets good dice then he can run you off the map, and if you get bad dice then it can really put you in a weak position (which will then get you run off the map).

However, in trench games, if your opponent gets good dice, then he still only takes out one (or at most a few) of your territories and you have a chance to respond. If you get bad dice attacking, then yes it weakens you, but only on that ONE spot that you got bad dice at. It's much less swingy, so even if you get bad dice (or your opponent gets good dice) for a few turns, the dice will eventually even out DURING THAT GAME, and whoever wins will generally be the one who had better strategy/diplomacy.

The only way dice will really cost you in trench is if you somehow get really bad luck, and either just KEEP failing to win attacks that statistically you should win, or if your opponent KEEPS getting really good dice and is constantly winning battles he shouldn't win as often. And by this I mean, it would need to happen for several turns in a row in order to make a significant difference in the outcome. But that is pretty unlikely to happen for long periods of time over the course of a whole trench game.


Couldn't agree more. Trench puts more strategy in the game because you have to think forward and very good dice in 1 round doessnt often decide the outcome of a trench game while in a standard game it would. There is still a lot of luck involved, because really shitty dice can still screw you over, but that's part of the game. I think Trench warfare is one of the best updates this site ever had.
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Re: Strategy versus Dice

Postby AslanTheKing on Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:04 pm

Very interesting contributions have been made at this post,
i was very happy to read the comments from ZeekLTK and frankiebee, at a good time
i got frustrated and wanted to say that the dice is always winning and more important than strategy,
since i do have a very bad time with my dice recently, but reading your inputs made me think for a minute,
no i cant just blame the dice.

And its true, at the moment i am playing for fun, even i lose, i enjoy my daily CC.
And if it would be that easy, everybody could be at the top scoreboard.
As quicker u rise , as quicker u can fall.
If i drop down to 1100, 1200 i will start playing terminator and push myself up to 1500,
after i have to change to playing escalating games, or specialise on a hard map, but reading your experience
and thoughts helps - to find my strategy.
I used to roll the daizz
Feel the fear in my enemy´s eyes
Listen as the crowd would sing:

Long live the Army Of Kings !


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Re: Strategy versus Dice

Postby waltero on Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:47 pm

Trench is good. You will find that some boards are unbalanced with the trench option enabled.
Usually first turn player will have great advantage.
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Re: Strategy versus Dice

Postby AslanTheKing on Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:30 pm

I am closing this thread,

i realised now that strategy is just a word, forget any strategy
because the dice beat strategy,
a good drop from the beginning,
or your opponents first round dice is crap

you win

so the dice won and i give up

gg
I used to roll the daizz
Feel the fear in my enemy´s eyes
Listen as the crowd would sing:

Long live the Army Of Kings !


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Re: Strategy versus Dice

Postby AslanTheKing on Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:43 pm

AslanTheKing wrote:I am closing this thread,

i realised now that strategy is just a word, forget any strategy
because the dice beat strategy,
a good drop from the beginning,
or your opponents first round dice is crap

you win

so the dice won and i give up

gg


just look at this ( and many more i could show u )

the guy reinforced 2 troops from last round and gets now 6 troops
count how much he kills of me

013-02-06 03:37:01 - tardis123 received 3 troops for holding ?
2013-02-06 03:37:01 - tardis123 received 3 troops for 10 regions
2013-02-06 03:37:05 - tardis123 deployed 6 troops on ?
2013-02-06 03:37:06 - tardis123 assaulted ? from ? and conquered it from AslanTheKing
2013-02-06 03:37:08 - tardis123 assaulted ? from ? and conquered it from AslanTheKing
2013-02-06 03:37:10 - tardis123 assaulted ? from ? and conquered it from AslanTheKing
2013-02-06 03:37:13 - tardis123 assaulted ? from ? and conquered it from AslanTheKing
2013-02-06 03:37:15 - tardis123 assaulted ? from ? and conquered it from AslanTheKing
2013-02-06 03:37:16 - tardis123 assaulted ? from ? and conquered it from neutral player
2013-02-06 03:37:18 - tardis123 assaulted ? from ? and conquered it from AslanTheKing
2013-02-06 03:37:28 - tardis123 ended the turn

with 8 troops he kills 6 of mine plus a neutral of 3

now thats dice
I used to roll the daizz
Feel the fear in my enemy´s eyes
Listen as the crowd would sing:

Long live the Army Of Kings !


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Re: Strategy versus Dice

Postby Funkyterrance on Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:58 am

AslanTheKing wrote:I am closing this thread,

i realised now that strategy is just a word, forget any strategy
because the dice beat strategy,
a good drop from the beginning,
or your opponents first round dice is crap

you win

so the dice won and i give up

gg


Here's the thing, Aslan: Dice may decide the outcome of a single game but strat will decide your success in regard to points/rank in the long run. So if you're looking to win a single game through just strategy, yeah you will be disappointed/frustrated around half the time, granted a more or less equal opponent. ;)
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Re: Strategy versus Dice

Postby GeneralRisk on Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:07 am

Funkyterrance wrote:
AslanTheKing wrote:I am closing this thread,

i realised now that strategy is just a word, forget any strategy
because the dice beat strategy,
a good drop from the beginning,
or your opponents first round dice is crap

you win

so the dice won and i give up

gg


Here's the thing, Aslan: Dice may decide the outcome of a single game but strat will decide your success in regard to points/rank in the long run. So if you're looking to win a single game through just strategy, yeah you will be disappointed/frustrated around half the time, granted a more or less equal opponent. ;)
Don't give up. Try these totenkopf dice, made from human bone, that has been picked clean by buzzards.Image
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Re: Strategy versus Dice

Postby AslanTheKing on Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:04 pm

this is something i have to remember,

if u play in a team game escalating and u cant trade with 4 spoils,
its better to deadbeat , so your team gets the spoils ( if u know u gonna get killed anyway )

is that morally exceptable, or as strategy ?
I used to roll the daizz
Feel the fear in my enemy´s eyes
Listen as the crowd would sing:

Long live the Army Of Kings !


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Re: Strategy versus Dice

Postby Funkyterrance on Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:49 am

AslanTheKing wrote:this is something i have to remember,

if u play in a team game escalating and u cant trade with 4 spoils,
its better to deadbeat , so your team gets the spoils ( if u know u gonna get killed anyway )

is that morally exceptable, or as strategy ?

Yeah, you're not supposed to intentionally deadbeat. A lot of people pull stuff like this though.
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Re: Strategy versus Dice

Postby AslanTheKing on Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:39 pm

i understand what u mean,
theres other tactics like, if u have 3 spoils and can trade, some guys miss the game so they can cash later,
which gives them more troops , ( if they are well spread - classic )
and if they get lucky, somebody missed to kill a guy with 5 spoils, then they have the easy kill,
and with 8 cards, u win the game basically, just trading enough to kill the next guy and so on.
I used to roll the daizz
Feel the fear in my enemy´s eyes
Listen as the crowd would sing:

Long live the Army Of Kings !


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Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Trench Warfare Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2) Bot Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (4) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (1)

Re: Strategy versus Dice

Postby AslanTheKing on Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:40 pm

ive realised something new for me in arms race,
they say focus only on one side of the map

but if u can manage to take the spy for an instance in the use, and have the majority of your troops in ussr,
then some think u cant attack from the usa spy to miami, but its wrong - so they leave u alone, great thing i discovered,
but i took my shot too early, i should have waited until i have enough spoils, bad
I used to roll the daizz
Feel the fear in my enemy´s eyes
Listen as the crowd would sing:

Long live the Army Of Kings !


AOK

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Sergeant 1st Class AslanTheKing
 
Posts: 1201
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:36 am
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Medals: 37
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Trench Warfare Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2) Bot Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (4) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (1)

Re: Strategy versus Dice

Postby AslanTheKing on Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:34 pm

another thing i didnt know is this
if u play trench, u can bypass a neutral region,
means u kill neutral, move all troops there,
and from there u can cary on to the next territory
I used to roll the daizz
Feel the fear in my enemy´s eyes
Listen as the crowd would sing:

Long live the Army Of Kings !


AOK

show: AOK Rocks
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class AslanTheKing
 
Posts: 1201
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:36 am
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Medals: 37
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Trench Warfare Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2) Bot Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (4) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (1)

Re: Strategy versus Dice

Postby AslanTheKing on Sun May 05, 2013 4:40 pm

maybe cheap, but some call it strategy
i didnt know its possible,

if u play nuclear, and have 4 spoils, and next round u have 5 spoils u have to trade
but if u have to nuke your own territory, there is a chance not to

you take your turn, you can also attack what ever you want,
but then let time run out
so u avoid getting a spoil,
and u have still 4 spoils next round
something worth mentioning
I used to roll the daizz
Feel the fear in my enemy´s eyes
Listen as the crowd would sing:

Long live the Army Of Kings !


AOK

show: AOK Rocks
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class AslanTheKing
 
Posts: 1201
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:36 am
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Medals: 37
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Trench Warfare Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2) Bot Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (4) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (1)

Re: Strategy versus Dice

Postby AslanTheKing on Sun May 05, 2013 4:52 pm

http://www.kent.ac.uk/smsas/personal/odl/riskfaq.htm
worth reading
even its about the board game of classic
I used to roll the daizz
Feel the fear in my enemy´s eyes
Listen as the crowd would sing:

Long live the Army Of Kings !


AOK

show: AOK Rocks
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class AslanTheKing
 
Posts: 1201
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:36 am
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Medals: 37
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Trench Warfare Achievement (2)
Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2) Bot Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (4) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (1)

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