People who leave 2s and 3s in Escalating

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Re: People who leave 2s and 3s in Escalating

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:50 am

Metsfanmax wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:@72o, Mets, and whoevs:

I've always wondered about the marginal benefits/costs of leaving 2s on the board compared to the marginal benefits/costs of leaving 1s on the board (with the tradeoff of having a more concentrated, thus effective, force)...

Based on 72o's quantitative evidence (which is very small), it seems that the concentration method is superior to "the 2s/3s" method. With qualitative evidence--i.e. if we asked the big shots about it--I'd expect that they'd support varieties of the concentration method too.

But perhaps there is someone out there who uses the 2s/3s method and garners a lot of points on 6+ escalating games... (If someone provided this existence proof, then we would have more reason to support Mets doubt on 72o's claim.


I agree that the sample group is rather small at this point.


Right. I don't necessarily doubt the method, I'm just being properly skeptical since all we have is fairly anecdotal evidence at this point.

As I pointed out, it is hard to properly extricate the main variable here from other relevant factors, such as inherent skill of the player. Still, I imagine that if you found some equally high rated players who used this method and lost their 6-8 player games most of the time, that would be better proof. But the fact that no one at high levels uses the method would not necessarily be proof, even if it's strong circumstantial evidence.


Since the costs of collecting this data would likely fail to offset the benefits, then the only way we can ascertain the truth is to...

hold a poll!!!

for the truth is decided by the majority!

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Re: People who leave 2s and 3s in Escalating

Postby IR1SH ACE on Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:50 pm

I agree....people who leave 2's and 3's in esc games are annoyin....

so u can add to ur date here is my map rank for 6,7 and 8 player esc games

148 wins from 377 games...39% win ratio and +1113 points....

now I have played in two games recently with a guy who has to leave 3/4 stacks every time he takes a region and those not want to share a card spot....one of these games is still ongoing............Game 11820335....player.....LLC22

now his maprank is.........113 wins from 474 games...24% win ratio and +1620 points

so i suppose it sort of works for him but is really annoyin to the regular flow of the game when everyone plays the stack and share way...

all i know is i would rather play with 6,7 or 8 players doing it this way....
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Re: People who leave 2s and 3s in Escalating

Postby 72o on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:25 am

Thanks for the additional data. It seems at least one person is successful leaving 2s and 3s and not sharing card spots.
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Re: People who leave 2s and 3s in Escalating

Postby DoomYoshi on Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:49 am

I actually experimented with this in I Walk Alone. Brandoncfi played 170ish 1v1s in a row. Every game, I left a 2 on every pile. He beat me by like 2 or 3 games. So, as a base strategy, it is only slightly worse. Obviously, strategies are situational though, but for all you anti-2, 3ers, there isn't too much validity.
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Re: People who leave 2s and 3s in Escalating

Postby Dukasaur on Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:06 am

DoomYoshi wrote:I actually experimented with this in I Walk Alone. Brandoncfi played 170ish 1v1s in a row. Every game, I left a 2 on every pile. He beat me by like 2 or 3 games. So, as a base strategy, it is only slightly worse. Obviously, strategies are situational though, but for all you anti-2, 3ers, there isn't too much validity.

1v1 strategy is a different kettle of fish entirely. So is 3- and 4- player.

What is being debated here is strategy for 5 or more players.

In 1v1 there is no point helping your opponent to get cards, so definitely you want to deny him carding opportunities when possible. In games with 5 or more players, however, the key is helping player B accumulate as many cards as possible, so that you can later take them and use them to your own benefit in fighting players C, D, and E. Since you don't know the identities of B, C, D, and E at the beginning, you want to help all the players accumulate cards.
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Re: People who leave 2s and 3s in Escalating

Postby DoomYoshi on Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:12 am

Dukasaur wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:I actually experimented with this in I Walk Alone. Brandoncfi played 170ish 1v1s in a row. Every game, I left a 2 on every pile. He beat me by like 2 or 3 games. So, as a base strategy, it is only slightly worse. Obviously, strategies are situational though, but for all you anti-2, 3ers, there isn't too much validity.

1v1 strategy is a different kettle of fish entirely. So is 3- and 4- player.

What is being debated here is strategy for 5 or more players.

In 1v1 there is no point helping your opponent to get cards, so definitely you want to deny him carding opportunities when possible. In games with 5 or more players, however, the key is helping player B accumulate as many cards as possible, so that you can later take them and use them to your own benefit in fighting players C, D, and E. Since you don't know the identities of B, C, D, and E at the beginning, you want to help all the players accumulate cards.


Keeping a trail of 2s does help your opponent card though. If you have 10 territories, then you 20 troops spread out and a 2 is easy to take compared to a stack of 11.
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Re: People who leave 2s and 3s in Escalating

Postby IR1SH ACE on Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:56 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:I actually experimented with this in I Walk Alone. Brandoncfi played 170ish 1v1s in a row. Every game, I left a 2 on every pile. He beat me by like 2 or 3 games. So, as a base strategy, it is only slightly worse. Obviously, strategies are situational though, but for all you anti-2, 3ers, there isn't too much validity.

1v1 strategy is a different kettle of fish entirely. So is 3- and 4- player.

What is being debated here is strategy for 5 or more players.

In 1v1 there is no point helping your opponent to get cards, so definitely you want to deny him carding opportunities when possible. In games with 5 or more players, however, the key is helping player B accumulate as many cards as possible, so that you can later take them and use them to your own benefit in fighting players C, D, and E. Since you don't know the identities of B, C, D, and E at the beginning, you want to help all the players accumulate cards.


Keeping a trail of 2s does help your opponent card though. If you have 10 territories, then you 20 troops spread out and a 2 is easy to take compared to a stack of 11.


Doom you have no idea what ur talking about here....and just lookin at ur map rank for 6,7 & 8 players esc games proves it...

60 wins from 388 games (18% win ratio) and -376 points says it all.....i also remember been in a esc game with u which u displayed ur complete lack of knowledge for esc game strategy.....Game 10955127....anyone who reads that game chat will clearly see you were clueless in an esc game....

ur point about leaving 2's around the place is valid in certain games..1v1 or team games...but this debate was about 6,7 & 8 player STANDARD ESC games......lol
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Re: People who leave 2s and 3s in Escalating

Postby DoomYoshi on Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:39 pm

90% of my lost points in 678s are due to fog, not escalating.
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