In Defense of Dice Complainers: Reasonable Doubt

Talk about all things related to Conquer Club

Moderators: Global Moderators, Discussions Team

Forum rules
Please read the community guidelines before posting.

Re: In Defense of Dice Complainers: Reasonable Doubt

Postby DoomYoshi on Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:56 pm

The thing about randomness is that it is defined by unpredictabilty. Let's assume there is an infinite, and random, stream of dice. In that infinite random stream, there is contained an infinite stream of 1s. So it is entirely possible to roll nothing but 1s for your entire life.

Proof: If the longest stream of 1s is only 564 1s long, then we know that the 565th roll is not a 1, and it is therefore not random.
show
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class DoomYoshi
Entertainment Contributor
Entertainment Contributor
 
Posts: 3419
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:30 pm
Location: Termina Field
Medals: 70
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (8) Clan Achievement (16)
Tournament Contribution (4) General Contribution (5)

Re: In Defense of Dice Complainers: Reasonable Doubt

Postby Funkyterrance on Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:29 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:The thing about randomness is that it is defined by unpredictabilty. Let's assume there is an infinite, and random, stream of dice. In that infinite random stream, there is contained an infinite stream of 1s. So it is entirely possible to roll nothing but 1s for your entire life.

Proof: If the longest stream of 1s is only 564 1s long, then we know that the 565th roll is not a 1, and it is therefore not random.

Indeed, its' possible. But what's more likely: rolling 1's for the rest of your life in a random situation or the existence of a rigged or not-random system?
Image
User avatar
Colonel Funkyterrance
 
Posts: 1924
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:52 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Medals: 22
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (3) General Contribution (1)

Re: In Defense of Dice Complainers: Reasonable Doubt

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:33 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:The thing about randomness is that it is defined by unpredictabilty. Let's assume there is an infinite, and random, stream of dice. In that infinite random stream, there is contained an infinite stream of 1s. So it is entirely possible to roll nothing but 1s for your entire life.

Proof: If the longest stream of 1s is only 564 1s long, then we know that the 565th roll is not a 1, and it is therefore not random.

Indeed, its' possible. But what's more likely: rolling 1's for the rest of your life in a random situation or the existence of a rigged or not-random system?


That's not an accurate description of the situation here. CC and its dice mechanism together are not random, in that one can control one's probability of winning a game by playing better--given the constraints of a random setting (e.g. the dice). In other words, although the dice are random, the player's decisions and capabilities are not random, so this is neither a "random situation" nor a "rigged or not-random system." Your dichotomy falls apart like the fortresses of so many ignoble kings.



On Dice Complainers: A Never Ending Trial of Self-Perceived Tribulations
When people condemn the system as 'rigged', many of them may be overlooking the fact that their strategy and their decisions were suboptimal. And, it seems that a large group of people are almost always more likely to blame one's environment (the 'rigged' dice system) instead of blaming oneself for poor decision-making. Of course, the blame they make might not be 100% on dice and 0% on one's decisions, but it seems that of that large group of dice complainers, they attribute too little blame on themselves. A further problem is their confirmation bias, which has been dealt with numerous times by the valid criticizers like natty dread.

Besides, it also psychologically rewarding to vent one's frustration while filtering out valid criticism in order to receive the desired sympathy from other dice complainers. Many dice complainers could be tapping themselves into this "positive" feedback loop with its negative unintended consequences.

Nonetheless, I look forward to the day when more and more people control for their cognitive bias, assess the situation from a more objective viewpoint, and consequentially make the necessary changes to improve themselves and others.
User avatar
Colonel BigBallinStalin
 
Posts: 3577
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:23 pm
Location: crying into the dregs of an empty bottle of own-brand scotch on the toilet having a dump in Dagenham
Medals: 48
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1)
Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (5) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (10)

Re: In Defense of Dice Complainers: Reasonable Doubt

Postby Funkyterrance on Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:01 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote:Indeed, its' possible. But what's more likely: rolling 1's for the rest of your life in a random situation or the existence of a rigged or not-random system?


That's not an accurate description of the situation here. CC and its dice mechanism together are not random, in that one can control one's probability of winning a game by playing better--given the constraints of a random setting (e.g. the dice). In other words, although the dice are random, the player's decisions and capabilities are not random, so this is neither a "random situation" nor a "rigged or not-random system." Your dichotomy falls apart like the fortresses of so many ignoble kings.

I was only following Yoshi's train of thought here and asking him a question comparing his extreme scenario to mine and I believe showing that his was certainly more far fetched and therefore useless as a counter. I never claimed it was a "this or that" scenario, however. It could very well be somewhere in-between.

BigBallinStalin wrote:On Dice Complainers: A Never Ending Trial of Self-Perceived Tribulations
When people condemn the system as 'rigged', many of them may be overlooking the fact that their strategy and their decisions were suboptimal. And, it seems that a large group of people are almost always more likely to blame one's environment (the 'rigged' dice system) instead of blaming oneself for poor decision-making. Of course, the blame they make might not be 100% on dice and 0% on one's decisions, but it seems that of that large group of dice complainers, they attribute too little blame on themselves. A further problem is their confirmation bias, which has been dealt with numerous times by the valid criticizers like natty dread.

Besides, it also psychologically rewarding to vent one's frustration while filtering out valid criticism in order to receive the desired sympathy from other dice complainers. Many dice complainers could be tapping themselves into this "positive" feedback loop with its negative unintended consequences.

Nonetheless, I look forward to the day when more and more people control for their cognitive bias, assess the situation from a more objective viewpoint, and consequentially make the necessary changes to improve themselves and others.


Again, while our ever so keen impressions of what is actually going on with regard to dice complainers may suggest to us otherwise, I am arguing reasonable doubt. I am arguing that supposition is not strong enough evidence to consistently treat dice complainers much like the lowliest mental patient and we the presiding doctors.
Last edited by Funkyterrance on Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
User avatar
Colonel Funkyterrance
 
Posts: 1924
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:52 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Medals: 22
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (3) General Contribution (1)

Re: In Defense of Dice Complainers: Reasonable Doubt

Postby SaMejoHn on Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:55 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:
SaMejoHn wrote:Why doesn't everyone just do what I do and talk it over with their therapist? But personally the more games I play the worse my dice. As far as the dice goes, my only complaint is the patterns/streak of misfortune. How can something advertised as random be consistently bad for a while and then consistently good for a while? That is the only part that gets to me :lol: . I read so much here about selective memory and all that great stuff. but I never forget the times my dice came through big time in clutch. In fact, if i didn't try to forget all the moments of bad dice i wouldnt even be on this site. but that's just me. so is that really as big a factor as others posit it to be?


Here we have an example of the classic long term dice victim. He has been berated so badly by his fellow players that he has actually started to believe he is to blame for his misfortune. How delicious this must be for his torturer, if he/she does indeed exist.
lol no one has berated me...this is first time im posting about dice. and only did so because i have more of a question than a complaint...(which was answered.) i dont approve of being labeled as "long term dice victim"
User avatar
Major SaMejoHn
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:33 pm
Medals: 36
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (1)

Re: In Defense of Dice Complainers: Reasonable Doubt

Postby Funkyterrance on Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:33 pm

SaMejoHn wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote:
Here we have an example of the classic long term dice victim. He has been berated so badly by his fellow players that he has actually started to believe he is to blame for his misfortune. How delicious this must be for his torturer, if he/she does indeed exist.
lol no one has berated me...this is first time im posting about dice. and only did so because i have more of a question than a complaint...(which was answered.) i dont approve of being labeled as "long term dice victim"

It might be in your best interest to accept this title as being a major you would have to be a pretty decent player to overcome this affliction.
Image
User avatar
Colonel Funkyterrance
 
Posts: 1924
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:52 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Medals: 22
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (3) General Contribution (1)

Re: In Defense of Dice Complainers: Reasonable Doubt

Postby SaMejoHn on Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:09 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:
SaMejoHn wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote:
Here we have an example of the classic long term dice victim. He has been berated so badly by his fellow players that he has actually started to believe he is to blame for his misfortune. How delicious this must be for his torturer, if he/she does indeed exist.
lol no one has berated me...this is first time im posting about dice. and only did so because i have more of a question than a complaint...(which was answered.) i dont approve of being labeled as "long term dice victim"

It might be in your best interest to accept this title as being a major you would have to be a pretty decent player to overcome this affliction.
lol hmmm... you are right. EVERYDAY MY DICE IS SHIT. Everyone else has SOOO much better dice than me. Im here now because im afraid to take turns.. f*ck CC AND THE BULLSHIT DICE.
User avatar
Major SaMejoHn
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:33 pm
Medals: 36
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (1)

Re: In Defense of Dice Complainers: Reasonable Doubt

Postby Funkyterrance on Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:22 pm

SaMejoHn wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote:It might be in your best interest to accept this title as being a major you would have to be a pretty decent player to overcome this affliction.
lol hmmm... you are right. EVERYDAY MY DICE IS SHIT. Everyone else has SOOO much better dice than me. Im here now because im afraid to take turns.. f*ck CC AND THE BULLSHIT DICE.

Now you're talking.
Image
User avatar
Colonel Funkyterrance
 
Posts: 1924
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:52 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Medals: 22
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (3) General Contribution (1)

Re: In Defense of Dice Complainers: Reasonable Doubt

Postby generalhead on Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:52 pm

I am pissed off about how random the dice are. This is bullshit. Some times I get good dice and sometimes I get bad dice.
What the f*ck is up with that?.....
Some times my opponents get good dice and sometimes they get bad dice? I don't understand this bullshit!....

Maybe I should have started a new thread for this?
Sergeant generalhead
 
Posts: 885
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:09 pm
Medals: 64
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (7) Challenge Achievement (1)
Tournament Contribution (14) General Contribution (1)

Re: In Defense of Dice Complainers: Reasonable Doubt

Postby Funkyterrance on Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:02 pm

generalhead wrote:I am pissed off about how random the dice are. This is bullshit. Some times I get good dice and sometimes I get bad dice.
What the f*ck is up with that?.....
Some times my opponents get good dice and sometimes they get bad dice? I don't understand this bullshit!....


I'll have to say I've never encountered a dice complainer complaining about the randomness itself. I'm afraid you are beyond my area of expertise, generalhead. I do however have the number of a guy across town who specializes in insanity pleas. ;)
Image
User avatar
Colonel Funkyterrance
 
Posts: 1924
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:52 pm
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Medals: 22
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (1) Quadruples Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1)
Freestyle Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (3) Clan Achievement (3) General Contribution (1)

Re: In Defense of Dice Complainers: Reasonable Doubt

Postby chang50 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:41 pm

generalhead wrote:I am pissed off about how random the dice are. This is bullshit. Some times I get good dice and sometimes I get bad dice.
What the f*ck is up with that?.....
Some times my opponents get good dice and sometimes they get bad dice? I don't understand this bullshit!....

Maybe I should have started a new thread for this?


lol....satire is the best way to treat this subject.. =D> =D> =D> =D>
User avatar
Lieutenant chang50
 
Posts: 529
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:54 am
Location: pattaya,thailand
Medals: 11
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Beta Map Achievement (1)
Ratings Achievement (1)

Re: In Defense of Dice Complainers: Reasonable Doubt

Postby x-raider on Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:57 am

Funkyterrance wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:The thing about randomness is that it is defined by unpredictabilty. Let's assume there is an infinite, and random, stream of dice. In that infinite random stream, there is contained an infinite stream of 1s. So it is entirely possible to roll nothing but 1s for your entire life.

Proof: If the longest stream of 1s is only 564 1s long, then we know that the 565th roll is not a 1, and it is therefore not random.

Indeed, its' possible. But what's more likely: rolling 1's for the rest of your life in a random situation or the existence of a rigged or not-random system?


I believe the question depends entirely if you "believe" in randomness. If you do believe in randomness, then the possibility of such a scenario appearing in a sort of nested randomness could be entirely possible. Maybe even probable.

It's so weird I can't even tell if it is a conspiracy theory
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class x-raider
 
Posts: 275
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:32 am
Location: Lost in the Complexities of the Undiscovered Universe
Medals: 5
Standard Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (1) General Achievement (1)

Re: In Defense of Dice Complainers: Reasonable Doubt

Postby donkeymile on Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:37 pm

I haven't complained for a long time ... but after the fucking bullshit tonight I am going to.

19v2 ... hit auto ... ends 3v2 .... 16 straight losses in a row .... pure bullshit .... astronomical odds of that happening ... guess I should have played the fucking lottery tonight.

Next turn its 9v2 ... ends 3v2 ... 22 straight losses. f*ck this ....

Forgot to mention ... my defense currently stands at

5 wins and 25 losses 3v2
4 wins and 14 losses 3v1

f*ck this ... love dropping hundreds of points with fucking shit dice and nothing to do with strategy ... makes one reconsider the upgrade again
User avatar
Major donkeymile
 
Posts: 227
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:10 pm
Medals: 23
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (3) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)

Re: In Defense of Dice Complainers: Reasonable Doubt

Postby SaMejoHn on Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:47 pm

donkeymile wrote:I haven't complained for a long time ... but after the fucking bullshit tonight I am going to.

19v2 ... hit auto ... ends 3v2 .... 16 straight losses in a row .... pure bullshit .... astronomical odds of that happening ... guess I should have played the fucking lottery tonight.

Next turn its 9v2 ... ends 3v2 ... 22 straight losses. f*ck this ....

Forgot to mention ... my defense currently stands at

5 wins and 25 losses 3v2
4 wins and 14 losses 3v1

f*ck this ... love dropping hundreds of points with fucking shit dice and nothing to do with strategy ... makes one reconsider the upgrade again
PREACH!! also did you recently lose possession of a rabbit's foot?
User avatar
Major SaMejoHn
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:33 pm
Medals: 36
Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (1) Cross-Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (1) Clan Achievement (1)

Re: In Defense of Dice Complainers: Reasonable Doubt

Postby donkeymile on Sun Jan 20, 2013 10:51 pm

lost the rabbits foot ... and the horseshoe fell out of my ass ... also forgot to sacrifice 13 virgins for the dice gods before every turn ... gotta love the unofficial Cc rules for getting decent dice
User avatar
Major donkeymile
 
Posts: 227
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:10 pm
Medals: 23
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (1) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (3) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (3) Cross-Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Login