Are there less players these days?

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Re: Are there less players these days?

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:54 pm

jsnyder748 wrote:Why does everyone assume they are being preyed upon? I used to be a low rank without a clue. I then started to copy other higher ranks, made some friends, asked for advice and eventually got "good". I was then able to play many team games with people I know and trust. I enjoy the maps i play on and the different strategies I have learned to use on them.

Why don't other people take the initiative? P.M. a "high ranked player. Ask them questions. read their game logs and figure out what they do if you actually want to be good. Join their games, show your funny/nice in the game chat and ask to play with them. Lots of people don't mind helping others out to grow the cc community.

Remember everybody is a low rank at some point. No body knows everything. Trust me lol without my real life friend Zidane - 21 teaching me the basics I would have never gotten the enjoyment out of this website that I do today :D

I don't think that the low rankers assume they are being preyed on but I assume a lot of them are being preyed on. It's just the settings I notice. What new player is going to willingly play a foggy freestyle game, I mean really, come on. I just looked at the waiting games list briefly to see if maybe I'm overreacting to all this but no, sure enough I see freestyle das Schloss and cricket games including Colonels, etc, filling up with non-premium cooks and privates. I'm sure those are going to be fun games for all! How much of that crap do you think a new player is going to tolerate before they say "f-this"?
Now I'm not trying to suggest that every higher ranked player is preying on innocents but there are surely enough of them out there to deter new people from becoming regulars here. Why should people have to be super-informed about all the pitfalls to be able to start enjoying their experience here?
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Re: Are there less players these days?

Postby jsnyder748 on Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:41 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:
jsnyder748 wrote:Why does everyone assume they are being preyed upon? I used to be a low rank without a clue. I then started to copy other higher ranks, made some friends, asked for advice and eventually got "good". I was then able to play many team games with people I know and trust. I enjoy the maps i play on and the different strategies I have learned to use on them.

Why don't other people take the initiative? P.M. a "high ranked player. Ask them questions. read their game logs and figure out what they do if you actually want to be good. Join their games, show your funny/nice in the game chat and ask to play with them. Lots of people don't mind helping others out to grow the cc community.

Remember everybody is a low rank at some point. No body knows everything. Trust me lol without my real life friend Zidane - 21 teaching me the basics I would have never gotten the enjoyment out of this website that I do today :D

I don't think that the low rankers assume they are being preyed on but I assume a lot of them are being preyed on. It's just the settings I notice. What new player is going to willingly play a foggy freestyle game, I mean really, come on. I just looked at the waiting games list briefly to see if maybe I'm overreacting to all this but no, sure enough I see freestyle das Schloss and cricket games including Colonels, etc, filling up with non-premium cooks and privates. I'm sure those are going to be fun games for all! How much of that crap do you think a new player is going to tolerate before they say "f-this"?
Now I'm not trying to suggest that every higher ranked player is preying on innocents but there are surely enough of them out there to deter new people from becoming regulars here. Why should people have to be super-informed about all the pitfalls to be able to start enjoying their experience here?


I suppose this is the point i'm trying to make. EACH game has weird settings for a reason. They are the settings that the higher rank uses to their advantage, but who is to say a low rank can't learn the settings and win? To this day I join random games that I have no clue what I am doing. I go in knowing there is a very high chance I will lose, but I have other games I play to counterbalance the loss.

For me if I was only having fun I would never join the das games or the cricket games when I was such a low rank unless I was wanting to learn. I would only have joined games i would deam as "fun". Like playing classic/doodle earth speed games. So when I look at the random low ranked people who play my games for instance I always assume they are watching how I play to get points later on. When they ask questions I answer them even if it helps them win (I don't care if i tell them how a map works giving away my strategy because I had the same questions years ago).

And what excuse do they have when they don't learn? Why do some cooks play me over and over again always leaving troops on the access point when it resets? I have found those are the people who don't care at all. I don't know what goes through their mind when they log into cc, but there can't be much they care about. So are those the people who are preyed upon? yes, but who wouldn't pray on someone when they don't even give it a chance?
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Re: Are there less players these days?

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:45 pm

jsnyder748 wrote:
I suppose this is the point i'm trying to make. EACH game has weird settings for a reason. They are the settings that the higher rank uses to their advantage, but who is to say a low rank can't learn the settings and win? To this day I join random games that I have no clue what I am doing. I go in knowing there is a very high chance I will lose, but I have other games I play to counterbalance the loss.

For me if I was only having fun I would never join the das games or the cricket games when I was such a low rank unless I was wanting to learn. I would only have joined games i would deam as "fun". Like playing classic/doodle earth speed games. So when I look at the random low ranked people who play my games for instance I always assume they are watching how I play to get points later on. When they ask questions I answer them even if it helps them win (I don't care if i tell them how a map works giving away my strategy because I had the same questions years ago).

And what excuse do they have when they don't learn? Why do some cooks play me over and over again always leaving troops on the access point when it resets? I have found those are the people who don't care at all. I don't know what goes through their mind when they log into cc, but there can't be much they care about. So are those the people who are preyed upon? yes, but who wouldn't pray on someone when they don't even give it a chance?

Ok. I'm not denying that all of what you are saying is true. The thing is, we are looking to figure out why there are less players/games filling up than there was 2 years ago or whatever. I suppose there will always be those players who don't care enough about the game to put the effort in but we've got to at least keep people interested enough to want to make any effort at all. When you first start here you poke around, try to get some games going with your paltry 4 game limit and get a general impression as to whether you want to stick around. It's in these early non-premium stages that a player decides if he/she really enjoys the site so it's critical that we make this time attractive. In general, newer/non-premium members are here for the action and the thrills. They are also impatient by nature(they'd be higher rank if they weren't ;)) so when they can't find a game to play in the list after say at the very least a day, they become desperate and join something, anything. When these games finally start they're disappointed. If you make the action, thrills and fun too difficult to obtain this critical group of people will simply become bored.
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Re: Are there less players these days?

Postby jsnyder748 on Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:01 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:Ok. I'm not denying that all of what you are saying is true. The thing is, we are looking to figure out why there are less players/games filling up than there was 2 years ago or whatever. I suppose there will always be those players who don't care enough about the game to put the effort in but we've got to at least keep people interested enough to want to make any effort at all. When you first start here you poke around, try to get some games going with your paltry 4 game limit and get a general impression as to whether you want to stick around. It's in these early non-premium stages that a player decides if he/she really enjoys the site so it's critical that we make this time attractive. In general, newer/non-premium members are here for the action and the thrills. They are also impatient by nature(they'd be higher rank if they weren't ;)) so when they can't find a game to play in the list after say at the very least a day, they become desperate and join something, anything. When these games finally start they're disappointed. If you make the action, thrills and fun too difficult to obtain this critical group of people will simply become bored.


Good point. I was a bit off topic. I see what you are saying now. If i didn't have a friend show me conquer club I would have probably given up. We should make it easier for really new people who are trying cc out to have a fun experience. Maybe the first four games new people play should be predetermined. Like a 1 v 1, six person escalating, a 4 player foggy flat rate game, and a freestyle game. To show them all the different options and get them used to playing different types.

There is a lot more we could do for new people to make it more inviting and exciting.
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Re: Are there less players these days?

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:30 pm

jsnyder748 wrote:Like a 1 v 1, six person escalating, a 4 player foggy flat rate game, and a freestyle game. To show them all the different options and get them used to playing different types.
There is a lot more we could do for new people to make it more inviting and exciting.

I think this is a great idea as long as either the games were made up entirely of newcomers or there were like various pop-ups that explained to newcomers what was happening(freestyle) so they would understand what the heck was going on and if they didn't like it they would at least know what to avoid. I like the former option better though since all these new players would have an even chance of winning since they would all be just learning. It just seems like a more fun way for new people to be introduced to Conquer Club. Not to mention an all newcomer game would be a safe haven from farmers.
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Re: Are there less players these days?

Postby greenoaks on Mon Feb 18, 2013 8:48 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:
jsnyder748 wrote:Like a 1 v 1, six person escalating, a 4 player foggy flat rate game, and a freestyle game. To show them all the different options and get them used to playing different types.
There is a lot more we could do for new people to make it more inviting and exciting.

I think this is a great idea as long as either the games were made up entirely of newcomers or there were like various pop-ups that explained to newcomers what was happening(freestyle) so they would understand what the heck was going on and if they didn't like it they would at least know what to avoid. I like the former option better though since all these new players would have an even chance of winning since they would all be just learning. It just seems like a more fun way for new people to be introduced to Conquer Club. Not to mention an all newcomer game would be a safe haven from farmers.

newcomers shouldn't be allowed to play freestyle, fog, trench. they should be kept on basic settings to go with their basic maps.
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Re: Are there less players these days?

Postby Just_essence on Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:35 pm

That is already partly implemented.
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Re: Are there less players these days?

Postby Izual_Rebirth on Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:54 pm

I think there should be more emphasis on classic games for non premium members. After all, that's probably the game type new members are here to play.

If they try and "join a game" and are faced with page after page of random complicated maps then they are probably going to end up joining a game, getting absolutely destroyed on a map they have no idea how to play and never come back. Either that or even worse, see the list of complicated maps and think "f*** this" and not even bother.

I think the "Join A Game" page should default just to showing Classic Maps with the default rules and then if you want to include all games you can do.

I appreciate you have the "game finder" but even after being a regular for just under six months I have no idea what half the map options mean or do so god knows what a noob would think. I also appreciate the long term vets are going to be all "well they can just check the help or visit the forum" but I'm coming from the view of making the site as accessible, intuitive and easy to use as possible for newcomers. Which I don't think it is at the moment.
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Re: Are there less players these days?

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:15 pm

greenoaks wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote:
jsnyder748 wrote:Like a 1 v 1, six person escalating, a 4 player foggy flat rate game, and a freestyle game. To show them all the different options and get them used to playing different types.
There is a lot more we could do for new people to make it more inviting and exciting.

I think this is a great idea as long as either the games were made up entirely of newcomers or there were like various pop-ups that explained to newcomers what was happening(freestyle) so they would understand what the heck was going on and if they didn't like it they would at least know what to avoid. I like the former option better though since all these new players would have an even chance of winning since they would all be just learning. It just seems like a more fun way for new people to be introduced to Conquer Club. Not to mention an all newcomer game would be a safe haven from farmers.

newcomers shouldn't be allowed to play freestyle, fog, trench. they should be kept on basic settings to go with their basic maps.

This is fine I suppose but eventually these newcomers are going to have to be introduced to these options and if they are learning against new players that's all the better. If they are introduced later then they will once again be at an extreme disadvantage once plopped in these setting. It's true of course that if they now are not newcomers we don't have to worry as much about them leaving but the farming issue remains just as strong. Why not give the newcomers a bit of armor for when they are let loose into the full version of CC instead of sending them into battle bare as they day they were born?
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Re: Are there less players these days?

Postby Izual_Rebirth on Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:39 pm

Another idea is how about tutorials or challenge maps against AI to get you used to the different game mechanics.

Just found out about WarLight and you can play single player on that and you have about 8 tutorial maps you can play. Each one teaches you about certain game play mechanics. Maybe something like that wold be useful?
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Re: Are there less players these days?

Postby stoicbird on Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:54 pm

There are almost 40% less players now than there was when I joined.

I used to enjoy reading the forums here but now its like a young liberal party forum. I blame Andy Dufresne for turning this forum into a bland inane place where all views are not allowed. Employing him was CC's biggest mistake.

I doubt the new owners can find a way to reverse or even halt the dwindling numbers created by Andy's sterling work.

The maps should be split up into two sections also. Complex maps and normal play maps which should also create two sections of joining/creating games into join a complex game/join normal play game.

All new recruits should neither win or lose points for their first ten games.

These are the easy steps to making this site a success once again. However, the culture created in the forum by Andy's leadership I doubt can ever be mended.
Last edited by stoicbird on Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are there less players these days?

Postby Izual_Rebirth on Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:56 pm

What's the biggest issue exactly?

Not getting enough new comers to visit the site?
Not getting enough new comers to stay once they do visit?
Or is it regulars that have decided to leave?
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Re: Are there less players these days?

Postby jsnyder748 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:12 am

They have a problem with getting new member to join and stay.

If you look at the clan world it has been around for a very long time with dedicated players. most people who have been good for a long time are still around. (like me I can't seem to let go lol)

you could also argue cc and strategy games are pretty outdated for young people. most would rather play call of duty (guilty!) or smoke pot.

Not much you could do to bring in masses unless they changed the website into what it isn't. Personally I have always liked using my brain more than staring blankly at a screen.
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Re: Are there less players these days?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:39 am

stoicbird wrote:There are almost 40% less players now than there was when I joined.

I used to enjoy reading the forums here but now its like a young liberal party forum. I blame Andy Dufresne for turning this forum into a bland inane place where all views are not allowed. Employing him was CC's biggest mistake.


Would you frequent OT more if we added a few more dictators?
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Re: Are there less players these days?

Postby ConfederateSS on Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:34 am

Hello,I know what it's like defending a lost cause(I uphold the Honor of The Old SOUTH).I agree what Mr.Changsha had to say.Right when I joined I was helping people(game 4043055)and defending Honor(game 4189424).I joined freestyle by not looking.I read how to play it as the game was going on.I won one and lost one in my first three games.That shouldn't be that big of a deal.But I have seen a lot of regulars leave.I don't play in clans or partner up,I like going solo.Some people worry only in winning on this site,or Idiotic things like Usernames,and other knitpicking stuff.Instead of just playing for fun.I don't try for medals,they come if you play long enough.The one lesson(in life)to learn is no matter how good you are,there is always some one better than you.As for strategy games outdated.Chess has been around for centuries(there is a reason it lasts).I remember PONG,Atari,Sega..etc.etc..Those never last,there is always something to take it's place.But a Classic is a Classic.Maybe C.C. should be reaching out to the Chess sites,GO(Chineese),Stratego etc.etc...to increase the strategic players pool.ALSO It's the declining of sportsmanship in people today...YOU HAVE TO BE A SPORT TO PLAY ONE...ConfederateSS..out!!!!!!!
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Re: Are there less players these days?

Postby stoicbird on Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:18 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:
stoicbird wrote:There are almost 40% less players now than there was when I joined.

I used to enjoy reading the forums here but now its like a young liberal party forum. I blame Andy Dufresne for turning this forum into a bland inane place where all views are not allowed. Employing him was CC's biggest mistake.


Would you frequent OT more if we added a few more dictators?


This is a typical inane post!!! If you're not a liberal you're a dictactor.

He's obviously trying to be humouress but seriously how much can you bother replying to such drivel?
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Re: Are there less players these days?

Postby Funkyterrance on Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:45 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:
stoicbird wrote:There are almost 40% less players now than there was when I joined.

I used to enjoy reading the forums here but now its like a young liberal party forum. I blame Andy Dufresne for turning this forum into a bland inane place where all views are not allowed. Employing him was CC's biggest mistake.


Would you frequent OT more if we added a few more dictators?


Now I'm not agreeing with stoicbird's assement necessarily but from how I understood it he's saying that Andy was dictating which views were allowed and which weren't. Those allowed being the liberal ones.
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Re: Are there less players these days?

Postby xeno on Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:05 am

When I first had premium it was five bucks cheaper and speed games had just come out and there were definitely a lot more active players. Those days were probably the peak of this websites existence
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Re: Are there less players these days?

Postby greenoaks on Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:27 am

xeno wrote:When I first had premium it was five bucks cheaper and speed games had just come out and there were definitely a lot more active players. Those days were probably the peak of this websites existence

there were also less than a quarter of the maps and no FoW.

games filled fast because of that restriction in choice.
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Re: Are there less players these days?

Postby stoicbird on Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:51 am

greenoaks wrote:
xeno wrote:When I first had premium it was five bucks cheaper and speed games had just come out and there were definitely a lot more active players. Those days were probably the peak of this websites existence

there were also less than a quarter of the maps and no FoW.

games filled fast because of that restriction in choice.


So f.o.w and four times more maps are to blame for a huge reduction in active players? I might agree if you had added the most pointless game option 'trench', which genius thought of such a ridiculous option?

Lets get real people Andy Dufresne strangled the life and soul out of this site!!! How the f*ck can somebody that pretends to be a monkey control a thriving forum?

Maybe the new people should email all the people banned under monkey boy offering them the chance to be unbanned and a clean slate. I'd say membership would increase be 10% within one month.
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Re: Are there less players these days?

Postby xeno on Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:19 am

stoicbird wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
xeno wrote:When I first had premium it was five bucks cheaper and speed games had just come out and there were definitely a lot more active players. Those days were probably the peak of this websites existence

there were also less than a quarter of the maps and no FoW.

games filled fast because of that restriction in choice.


So f.o.w and four times more maps are to blame for a huge reduction in active players? I might agree if you had added the most pointless game option 'trench', which genius thought of such a ridiculous option?

Lets get real people Andy Dufresne strangled the life and soul out of this site!!! How the f*ck can somebody that pretends to be a monkey control a thriving forum?

Maybe the new people should email all the people banned under monkey boy offering them the chance to be unbanned and a clean slate. I'd say membership would increase be 10% within one month.
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Re: Are there less players these days?

Postby macbone on Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:47 am

Izuul, try some different maps on different settings. Most of the people joining your 4-player Classic games seem to be New Recruits.
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Re: Are there less players these days?

Postby premio53 on Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:26 am

stoicbird wrote:There are almost 40% less players now than there was when I joined.

I used to enjoy reading the forums here but now its like a young liberal party forum. I blame Andy Dufresne for turning this forum into a bland inane place where all views are not allowed. Employing him was CC's biggest mistake.

I doubt the new owners can find a way to reverse or even halt the dwindling numbers created by Andy's sterling work.

The maps should be split up into two sections also. Complex maps and normal play maps which should also create two sections of joining/creating games into join a complex game/join normal play game.

All new recruits should neither win or lose points for their first ten games.

These are the easy steps to making this site a success once again. However, the culture created in the forum by Andy's leadership I doubt can ever be mended.

I believe there were approximately 20,000 players four or five years ago. How many are there currently?
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Re: Are there less players these days?

Postby macbone on Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:39 am

The scoreboard shows 15145 right now.

This thread has been following the numbers on the scoreboard: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=152877&p=4031912&hilit=declining#p4031912 The first post records 17315 active users a year and a half ago.
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Re: Are there less players these days?

Postby greenoaks on Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:43 am

stoicbird wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
xeno wrote:When I first had premium it was five bucks cheaper and speed games had just come out and there were definitely a lot more active players. Those days were probably the peak of this websites existence

there were also less than a quarter of the maps and no FoW.

games filled fast because of that restriction in choice.


So f.o.w and four times more maps are to blame for a huge reduction in active players? I might agree if you had added the most pointless game option 'trench', which genius thought of such a ridiculous option?

Lets get real people Andy Dufresne strangled the life and soul out of this site!!! How the f*ck can somebody that pretends to be a monkey control a thriving forum?

Maybe the new people should email all the people banned under monkey boy offering them the chance to be unbanned and a clean slate. I'd say membership would increase be 10% within one month.

i'm sorry if english is not your native language. let me explain.

i started by saying 'there were also'. that means i offered some additional reasons.
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