Are Settings Ultimately Killing CC?

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Are Settings Ultimately Killing CC?

Postby Funkyterrance on Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:05 am

So I've been looking around the waiting games lately and this is no new concept but I'm getting a stronger and stronger impression that the settings on the games available is the reason why CC is shrinking in numbers.
Freestyle and Fog Trench make up the better part of the first games you see when looking to join a game.
More seasoned players may like these settings due to boredom or "point gathering" but new players(or lack thereof) who it has been more or less established are affecting membership numbers, don't have a lot of interest in playing cryptic games.
This site is becoming a place that is most comfortable to those players in their "golden years" CC wise. This sounds nice on paper but even those people who are satisfied with the current state of affairs will leave eventually, that's just normal. That being said and with the fact that new players are probably being discouraged by the foreign settings, CC is getting staler and staler by the day, not unlike the piece of bread that fell between the counter top and the refrigerator.
So, since many people seem to notice that games are taking longer to fill up than they used to, stop creating all these point hoarding games. It's probably not CC's responsibility to solve this problem since all these games are going against the grain so to speak for the sake of shaving points.
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Re: Are Settings Ultimately Killing CC?

Postby betiko on Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:20 am

don't you have better things to do? you keep opening threads about the same thing over and over.
can you provide with numbers regarding cc population shrinking, or testimonies about people leaving the site because they get in games with settings they don't like?
also, if the most games you see on the game finder are with wierd settings it's because they are the oldest ones not being joined yet, because people don't fall in the trap.
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Re: Are Settings Ultimately Killing CC?

Postby gordon1975 on Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:12 am

its a good point,if i joined this site today and hit join a game,on the first page my choices would be ,das schloss,lunar wars,All Your Base Are Belong To Us,Clandemonium,jamaica,cricket,city mogul,fudal epic and age of realms 1 and 3.Anyone thats new to this would have a shot,be thrown completely in to the lions den,get slaughtered,would think this site is way over there heads and leave ,should be the classic map on the front page at all times,for a much more enjoyable first experience and welcome
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Re: Are Settings Ultimately Killing CC?

Postby betiko on Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:20 am

gordon1975 wrote:its a good point,if i joined this site today and hit join a game,on the first page my choices would be ,das schloss,lunar wars,All Your Base Are Belong To Us,Clandemonium,jamaica,cricket,city mogul,fudal epic and age of realms 1 and 3.Anyone thats new to this would have a shot,be thrown completely in to the lions den,get slaughtered,would think this site is way over there heads and leave ,should be the classic map on the front page at all times,for a much more enjoyable first experience and welcome


this is why those games are not open to new recruits, they are not allowed to join them.
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Re: Are Settings Ultimately Killing CC?

Postby gordon1975 on Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:32 pm

betiko wrote:
gordon1975 wrote:its a good point,if i joined this site today and hit join a game,on the first page my choices would be ,das schloss,lunar wars,All Your Base Are Belong To Us,Clandemonium,jamaica,cricket,city mogul,fudal epic and age of realms 1 and 3.Anyone thats new to this would have a shot,be thrown completely in to the lions den,get slaughtered,would think this site is way over there heads and leave ,should be the classic map on the front page at all times,for a much more enjoyable first experience and welcome


this is why those games are not open to new recruits, they are not allowed to join them.



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Re: Are Settings Ultimately Killing CC?

Postby Funkyterrance on Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:36 pm

Yeah, you aren't able to join until you've played 10 games or whatever it is but after that, all this applies. So the point is valid but not a discussion ender.
The reason I keep bringing up this point is that it's getting worse. I've also not started a thread specifically about this particular aspect which I feel is the main reason people don't want to stay here. If you look back a couple of years when the site was apparently much healthier numbers-wise, what are the glaring differences? The difference is an increase in games created on exclusive settings and on exclusive maps. Excluding newer players is bad for business.
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Re: Are Settings Ultimately Killing CC?

Postby AslanTheKing on Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:38 pm

i dont think its the settings ( dont know if CC is declining- maybe, dont have the facts)

i remember i did join as freemium already a long time ago,
my name i cant remember
but stopped playing on the first day since i wanted to play right away and not waiting 24 hours

then i gave it a shot again, and since 2011 i am very active

its hard to say, maybe a feedback system from new players would be a good invention,

that way u get what u need to know
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Re: Are Settings Ultimately Killing CC?

Postby Funkyterrance on Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:47 pm

AslanTheKing wrote:its hard to say, maybe a feedback system from new players would be a good invention...

Probably a good idea. Hard to ask people once they've left though. If it were shown that new people are not repelled by exclusive settings I would be fine not talking about any of this.
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Re: Are Settings Ultimately Killing CC?

Postby greenoaks on Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:18 am

speed games for freemiums is attempting to rectify the alleged problems faced by NR's
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Re: Are Settings Ultimately Killing CC?

Postby xeno on Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:01 am

Sorry funky but this doesn't make sense. More preferences should equal broader appeal
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Re: Are Settings Ultimately Killing CC?

Postby greenoaks on Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:28 am

xeno wrote:Sorry funky but this doesn't make sense. More preferences should equal broader appeal

less settings bunches us up on a few games. they fill quickly, the site feels vibrant.

more settings spreads us thin, games fill slower, the same people are played over and over, that repetative interaction bores people - they leave.
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Re: Are Settings Ultimately Killing CC?

Postby xeno on Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:35 am

greenoaks wrote:
xeno wrote:Sorry funky but this doesn't make sense. More preferences should equal broader appeal

less settings bunches us up on a few games. they fill quickly, the site feels vibrant.

more settings spreads us thin, games fill slower, the same people are played over and over, that repetative interaction bores people - they leave.

I guess I can understand that. I most play escalating unlimited games so scaling back on the settings wouldn't affect me much anyway
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Re: Are Settings Ultimately Killing CC?

Postby rdsrds2120 on Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:51 pm

We're actually working on a long-term plan to make the site easier for New Recruits without fully taking maps/settings away.

BMO
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Re: Are Settings Ultimately Killing CC?

Postby Funkyterrance on Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:43 pm

rdsrds2120 wrote:We're actually working on a long-term plan to make the site easier for New Recruits without fully taking maps/settings away.

BMO


Oh. I'll knock it off then and be patient if that's the case. I'm not trying to be intentionally disruptive, contrary to popular belief. ;)
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Re: Are Settings Ultimately Killing CC?

Postby CreepersWiener on Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:44 pm

xeno wrote:Sorry funky but this doesn't make sense. More preferences should equal broader appeal


I would disagree. I think the Funk has hit on something. People that like to play Risk hear about this site. And when they come in, they look at the Join A Game or Start A Game and there are so many unfamiliar maps and gaming choices.

I remember when I first started, I would go to Join Game and the majority of the games were the Classic map...that was appealing to me, I was familiar with it...now when I look at Join Game, I am bombarded by a thousand games of Quad teams playing Das Schloss with Trench Fog.

Maybe we need a suggestion to be made? A "wading pool" for newbies?
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Re: Are Settings Ultimately Killing CC?

Postby betiko on Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:54 am

CreepersWiener wrote:
xeno wrote:Sorry funky but this doesn't make sense. More preferences should equal broader appeal


I would disagree. I think the Funk has hit on something. People that like to play Risk hear about this site. And when they come in, they look at the Join A Game or Start A Game and there are so many unfamiliar maps and gaming choices.

I remember when I first started, I would go to Join Game and the majority of the games were the Classic map...that was appealing to me, I was familiar with it...now when I look at Join Game, I am bombarded by a thousand games of Quad teams playing Das Schloss with Trench Fog.

Maybe we need a suggestion to be made? A "wading pool" for newbies?


how about reading my post? new recruits already have restrictions and are only allowed to join simple maps and settings. showed the site to a friend a couple of weeks ago who then started an account, and when he went on join games and lots of them were unjoinable because he is a NR. He joined one on ww2 western europe though, and I don't think he could've understood you had to bomb england from benelux if I wasn't there to explain, I think that maps that include bombing or stuff like that that are not in the real risk game should be part of the restricted maps, NR obviously don't use BOB.
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Re: Are Settings Ultimately Killing CC?

Postby ConfederateSS on Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:50 am

Hello,..Well maybe they should bump it up to 50 games completed on basic maps and basic settings. Before they're thrown to the lions. It would give them something to aim for.The next level.Like any game..Moving up.Curiosity can be an effective tool in getting people to stay.To see what's behind door number two.......That might just be the gimmick(number one tool in marketing) to get people hooked on Conquer Club..Thank You Kindly.....ConfederateSS..out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Are Settings Ultimately Killing CC?

Postby qwertylpc on Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:23 am

ConfederateSS wrote:Hello,..Well maybe they should bump it up to 50 games completed on basic maps and basic settings. Before they're thrown to the lions. It would give them something to aim for.The next level.Like any game..Moving up.Curiosity can be an effective tool in getting people to stay.To see what's behind door number two.......That might just be the gimmick(number one tool in marketing) to get people hooked on Conquer Club..Thank You Kindly.....ConfederateSS..out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I agree, my first few games went miserably, and approximately 8th game, I was "farmed" by David Hoekstra in live chat. It was a fog freestyle game on Eastern Hemisphere and I didn't know what clickies were. Now, some how I beat him (probably the noob dice) and then I played some more games on that map and won a few. If I had lost that I doubt I would be here today.

Now, for the first 5 games, the only map NR should be able to play is classic with simple settings against other NR. After that 5th game, have something pop up to inform them they have now unlocked other maps (nice easy maps without weird bonuses or bombardment) and can play against other players. After the 10th game, have something pop up to actually take them to the instructions about other settings (it is not simply enough to have instructions, you have to take them to the instructions) such as fog or trench as well as unlock them. Then after 15 games, unlock something else, and by 25 games they should be integrated fully and at least know about everything the site has to offer.
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Re: Are Settings Ultimately Killing CC?

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:43 am

Guys, here is the list of new recruit maps.
show

As you can see, nothing complicated in their at all. A good mix of classic play, both large and small maps. The only other restrictions on new recruits are these. They cannot join, assassin, terminator, team or 6+player games.

As for settings putting some players of, if players are going to complain and leave after a few games because of a certain setting, then I very much doubt they would of stayed long term anyway. One of the things we have been saying recently in the foundry is to limit the maps for players. As has been said here, we could open up maps as more games have been played.
NR=50 maps only. Has to be a high number or games would never get filled for them.
Play 25 games, open up another 50.
Play 100 games and you get another 100 maps.
Become premium to get every map over the 200. :D
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Re: Are Settings Ultimately Killing CC?

Postby tzor on Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:52 am

Funkyterrance wrote: Freestyle and Fog Trench make up the better part of the first games you see when looking to join a game.
...
So, since many people seem to notice that games are taking longer to fill up than they used to, stop creating all these point hoarding games. It's probably not CC's responsibility to solve this problem since all these games are going against the grain so to speak for the sake of shaving points.


I happen to like Fog and Trench games but as I am not a premium I am not in the habit of creating a lot of games at any one time. When I do, (for example a NYC game with tench) I basically assume that it might take longer for the slots to fill up than had I not selected it, but being a freemium I generally look for "quality" and not "quantity" so that I am creating the game I want to play.

At this very moment, there are about 130 classic sequential standard games (24 hour round timer) with neither fog nor trench waiting for players. From this observation it seems that there are premium players creating such games and in such quantities that the basic vanilla player should not go wanting and leave CC.

So I don't think your argument is correct in that it is killing CC, but I think that if gripers who say their games take too long to fill up would create more basic games their games would fill up faster.
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Re: Are Settings Ultimately Killing CC?

Postby qwertylpc on Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:11 pm

koontz1973 wrote:Guys, here is the list of new recruit maps.
show

As you can see, nothing complicated in their at all. A good mix of classic play, both large and small maps. The only other restrictions on new recruits are these. They cannot join, assassin, terminator, team or 6+player games.


Exactly my point. Way too many. When you play a computer game, there is a tutorial which takes you through the game, the controls etc. (Go to http://www.kongregate.com/ if you've forgotten what a computer game is like). You start with very little function, and it allows you to build up to full capabilities. Starting with 74 maps is complete overkill, maybe 5 or 10 (but tell them there are more to unlock). This will entice them to play a little to unlock stuff, and it will also not overwhelm them. Maybe even have a bot just to teach them in their first game, that way it is real time
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Re: Are Settings Ultimately Killing CC?

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:33 pm

Exactly my point.

Hence the reason for limiting the maps. Opening them up as you progress.
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Re: Are Settings Ultimately Killing CC?

Postby greenoaks on Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:32 pm

tzor wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote: Freestyle and Fog Trench make up the better part of the first games you see when looking to join a game.
...
So, since many people seem to notice that games are taking longer to fill up than they used to, stop creating all these point hoarding games. It's probably not CC's responsibility to solve this problem since all these games are going against the grain so to speak for the sake of shaving points.


I happen to like Fog and Trench games but as I am not a premium I am not in the habit of creating a lot of games at any one time. When I do, (for example a NYC game with tench) I basically assume that it might take longer for the slots to fill up than had I not selected it, but being a freemium I generally look for "quality" and not "quantity" so that I am creating the game I want to play.

At this very moment, there are about 130 classic sequential standard games (24 hour round timer) with neither fog nor trench waiting for players. From this observation it seems that there are premium players creating such games and in such quantities that the basic vanilla player should not go wanting and leave CC.

So I don't think your argument is correct in that it is killing CC, but I think that if gripers who say their games take too long to fill up would create more basic games their games would fill up faster.

it is not so much the settings, although the extra settings have killed Speed, it is the quadruple number of maps now available that makes games fill slowly.
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Re: Are Settings Ultimately Killing CC?

Postby Shannon Apple on Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:36 pm

koontz1973 wrote:
Exactly my point.

Hence the reason for limiting the maps. Opening them up as you progress.

I can agree with this.

New recruit should be more than 5 games imo, and then open up maps as they go. 5 games is not enough time for them to actually learn anything. I'm glad the option is open for them to play speed games now as it may help to retain more members, but most are being thrown to the lions.

I don't play any of these crazy settings myself as I have only really started playing myself in the past few months and slowly expanding my horizons so to speak. I was on hiatus for a number of years and started over. I had this same issue. "What in the name of God are all this new settings that didn't exist before? What the hell are these maps?" Some of the maps on the first page of the 'Find a game' are pretty ridiculous and rather confusing, especially if you've only ever played classic risk.

I think new members should be sent links to some of the essential strategy threads in the forums via inbox. Those would really help with some of the common mistakes that newbies make if they take the time to read.

Another thought I just had and not sure how practical... what if new recruits didn't lose any points in their first 5 or so games? Start them out on a training level, then advance to new recruit. Some other games have training levels on startup to ease people in. Would it encourage them to stay?
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Re: Are Settings Ultimately Killing CC?

Postby qwertylpc on Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:00 pm

koontz1973 wrote:
Exactly my point.

Hence the reason for limiting the maps. Opening them up as you progress.


That's what I said, not what you said. I was an advocate for limiting it, 5 games is not enough to learn
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