What makes an honorable conqueror?

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Re: What makes an honorable conqueror?

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:32 pm

NoSurvivors wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote:What would be cool would be if these games that decided the conqueror were more public, like a one a week occurrence speed game where everyone on cc could watch and make their own judgments. There could even be a thread dedicated to discussing the latest match. :)


Cool idea, but then it would be just a bunch of players helping the other member playing vs the conqueror.. however if it was manditory (if the conq wanted) for it to be foggy.. then yeah maybe :)

Hmm, could be a mini-tourney then of the top 10 in 1v1? Winner gets to play against conqueror? I realize drop/turn issues but that's the only way to prevent what you are talking about. If this whole "no attack first turn" suggestion goes through it would be even better.
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Re: What makes an honorable conqueror?

Postby codeblue1018 on Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:36 pm

Agent 86 wrote:
codeblue1018 wrote:
Lol, are you serious? All those names Bruce and I mentioned on the 8player games were without a doubt legit; there were no game throwing in any way shape or form; the game chat clearly proves this notion, lol not too mention, I was in many of those games. As far as putting those players in team games, whether dubs, trips; everyone of those guys were above and beyond the normal, casual team player. I have no idea if you played games with us back then Changsha, but if you did, you wouldn't have A. Made those comments and B. know that these players were elite in every facet while having zero controversy to their names.


I wasn't around in circa 2007-2008 codeblue, think Mr C was but he probably was just learning the ropes and didn't really know what it took to be conqueror back then ( don't quote me on that, he may well have ). But since I've been around mostly what he says is true. Especially in recent times. To me the reason we have had so much controversy is because of the way the scoreboard operates. It leans itself to a player who only plays 1 or 2 particular maps with very strategic game play, so doesn't give a true picture of what a conqueror should be. The conqueror should be well rounded on many maps and settings. We all know of many players on this site who take on anyone anytime in a diverse range of maps and settings who hold down either General status and or Brig Status. They are the true conquerors of this site but can't quite get to the ultimate spot because of the way the scoreboard works.

I used to look at the scoreboard in my early days and admire some of the scores that conqueror's achieved, I still think KH, Scott-land, Poomaker were worthy of the title. Also I loved the way KH posted, was very humorous and with a touch of real class.


I would agree mate especially in recent times. The only player that comes to mind without controversy and from what I've witnessed as a great player is MC; if I forgot someone, I apologize. I believe that the invite system has caused one of the major contributing factors to shenanigans; although it has its purpose. Back then, players created team games and hoped that the players that joined had at least some knowledge in team play. The only way around this was to constantly hit refresh to see who joined a particular players team; if it wasn't satisfactory, the player dropped the game. A player by the name "jork", a former conqueror and one hell of a team player received his points primarily on dubs and trips. He would create games and allow anyone to join, cooks, privates and the like and still win 80% of his games. Point in making is, I keep referring to "back then" but back then this site was much more enjoyable and really scandal free until the likes of Krusher and a few others; minor in comparison to today. To boot, there were more members as a whole and many, many players playing with and against each other serving more as a diverse group in general. I wish some more old timers would weigh in here; as FT pointed out, these were the players that started this site; ones that knew what worked and didn't work. It would for sure be an Interesting read.
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Re: What makes an honorable conqueror?

Postby DoomYoshi on Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:48 pm

Whoever has been banned the most.
Whoever has the most rules created in response to their behavior.
Emmdizzle.

That's my short list.
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Re: What makes an honorable conqueror?

Postby NoSurvivors on Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:42 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:Whoever has been banned the most.
Whoever has the most rules created in response to their behavior.
Emmdizzle.

That's my short list.


So GLG, GLG.. and Emdizzle? lol
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Re: What makes an honorable conqueror?

Postby Shannon Apple on Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:59 pm

Honestly, I look at what they have medals wise. A conquerer with only 2 or 3 medals is not a good all round player and probably would be fleeced of his points by any one of us outside of his comfort settings.

We could all perfect one map, one set of settings and race to the top score, but where's the fun in that?

That's why I think the conquerer position should come with a minimum medals requirement. It would force them to play more maps, more settings and become a better player on their way to the top.
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Re: What makes an honorable conqueror?

Postby jsnyder748 on Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:01 pm

Shannon Apple wrote:Honestly, I look at what they have medals wise. A conquerer with only 2 or 3 medals is not a good all round player and probably would be fleeced of his points by any one of us outside of his comfort settings.

We could all perfect one map, one set of settings and race to the top score, but where's the fun in that?

That's why I think the conquerer position should come with a minimum medals requirement. It would force them to play more maps, more settings and become a better player on their way to the top.


normally I would agree with that statement, but mc05025 is one exception. He has played a wide variety of games, doesn't have many medals and has exceeded at all forms of strategy. How fast he was able to pick up each setting amazes me. At first I thought he was a multi, but knowing him now I would never accuse him of this.
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Re: What makes an honorable conqueror?

Postby Mr Changsha on Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:02 pm

codeblue1018 wrote:
Mr Changsha wrote:Ahunda would be a worthy conqueror. Looking at his last 100 games and his current score I can see a player who is truly, without question, superior to almost all of us.

As I said, a worthy conqueror.

There haven't been many. Those early freestyle 8 man standard conquerors had the whiff of game-throwing (controversial maybe but that is my view nonetheless), the 1vs1 freestyle conquerors preyed on the weak and while their performance could be respected -as few of us could do it - one knew that if you played them sequentially they weren't much better than 2500 level players, if at all. The 8 man casual freestyle conquerors were a mixed bunch; one or two seemed fairly legit. but others frankly shamed the site and all of them were far too narrow in their game selections. Again, you could place them on dubs, trips or quads and they would more than likely be nothing special.

There have been a few great conquerors...sadly most of them have ranged from tedious specialists on horribly skewed settings, to farmers, to secret diplomacists, to multis, to ranchers.

It is all very depressing.


Lol, are you serious? All those names Bruce and I mentioned on the 8player games were without a doubt legit; there were no game throwing in any way shape or form; the game chat clearly proves this notion, lol not too mention, I was in many of those games. As far as putting those players in team games, whether dubs, trips; everyone of those guys were above and beyond the normal, casual team player. I have no idea if you played games with us back then Changsha, but if you did, you wouldn't have A. Made those comments and B. know that these players were elite in every facet while having zero controversy to their names.


Two points:

1. It is simply inaccurate to say there was zero controversy. There were blocks...

2. You mis-read what I wrote (and I wrote it deliberately carefully) regarding the competence of the players you admire. I didn't say those players couldn't play dubs, trips or quads well. Most of them could play very well indeed. It was other kinds of conqueror who I claimed were far too narrow to be worth much.
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Re: What makes an honorable conqueror?

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:08 pm

Shannon Apple wrote:That's why I think the conquerer position should come with a minimum medals requirement. It would force them to play more maps, more settings and become a better player on their way to the top.

I think that this is another good idea for a qualification for conqueror though. A player should have to "make his/her bones" before getting that particular medal(conqueror). I know I wouldn't qualify. :P
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Re: What makes an honorable conqueror?

Postby DoomYoshi on Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:03 pm

NoSurvivors wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:Whoever has been banned the most.
Whoever has the most rules created in response to their behavior.
Emmdizzle.

That's my short list.


So GLG, GLG.. and Emdizzle? lol


GLG, Blitz, Kiron, Emmdizzle.

If the weak minded of the site get their panties in a bunch over it, then I am for it.

Basically, I think anyone who can figure out an exploit before there is a rule against it and exploit it so that a rule is created for it, this is exactly what life, and CC, is about. Anything less is just bullshit. Anyone who thinks playing SoC settings is a valid measure of greatness shouldn't be allowed to play.
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Re: What makes an honorable conqueror?

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:09 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:Basically, I think anyone who can figure out an exploit before there is a rule against it and exploit it so that a rule is created for it, this is exactly what life, and CC, is about.

Interesting... tell me more about what life is about for you Yoshi.

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Re: What makes an honorable conqueror?

Postby codeblue1018 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:21 am

Mr Changsha wrote:
codeblue1018 wrote:
Mr Changsha wrote:Ahunda would be a worthy conqueror. Looking at his last 100 games and his current score I can see a player who is truly, without question, superior to almost all of us.

As I said, a worthy conqueror.

There haven't been many. Those early freestyle 8 man standard conquerors had the whiff of game-throwing (controversial maybe but that is my view nonetheless), the 1vs1 freestyle conquerors preyed on the weak and while their performance could be respected -as few of us could do it - one knew that if you played them sequentially they weren't much better than 2500 level players, if at all. The 8 man casual freestyle conquerors were a mixed bunch; one or two seemed fairly legit. but others frankly shamed the site and all of them were far too narrow in their game selections. Again, you could place them on dubs, trips or quads and they would more than likely be nothing special.

There have been a few great conquerors...sadly most of them have ranged from tedious specialists on horribly skewed settings, to farmers, to secret diplomacists, to multis, to ranchers.

It is all very depressing.


Lol, are you serious? All those names Bruce and I mentioned on the 8player games were without a doubt legit; there were no game throwing in any way shape or form; the game chat clearly proves this notion, lol not too mention, I was in many of those games. As far as putting those players in team games, whether dubs, trips; everyone of those guys were above and beyond the normal, casual team player. I have no idea if you played games with us back then Changsha, but if you did, you wouldn't have A. Made those comments and B. know that these players were elite in every facet while having zero controversy to their names.


Two points:

1. It is simply inaccurate to say there was zero controversy. There were blocks...

2. You mis-read what I wrote (and I wrote it deliberately carefully) regarding the competence of the players you admire. I didn't say those players couldn't play dubs, trips or quads well. Most of them could play very well indeed. It was other kinds of conqueror who I claimed were far too narrow to be worth much.


I read it just fine mate; there was ONE block and I never said there weren't issues regarding players back then, just not as rampant as today.

"one or two seemed fairly legit. but others frankly shamed the site and all of them were far too narrow in their game selections"

One or two out of all the top players; that's it mate? Who shamed the site back then besides the likes of krusher, Warsteiner etc? They were multis and the other had people suicide for them to win 6 player games, not 8 man games. Not starting a bickering match, just want to know from you who were the one or two "legit" players and the ones that shamed the site.
This has nothing to do with my admiration of players; it has to do with what the op asked; these are what conquerors need to be like. Man bro, there were so many to pick from back then and the shenanigans were much, much lower that what we deal with today. Back then the biggest issue were multis in which we still have to this day and will continue to have for as long as this site is active. Things ran well back the; all I'm saying.
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Re: What makes an honorable conqueror?

Postby jsnyder748 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:58 am

no,no the bickering is good. I like seeing 2 sides.

Does no one else have any suggestions for some restrictions to conqueror? I am really liking the one about making them be in an active game or they are booted from the scoreboard.
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Re: What makes an honorable conqueror?

Postby codeblue1018 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:53 am

jsnyder748 wrote:no,no the bickering is good. I like seeing 2 sides.

Does no one else have any suggestions for some restrictions to conqueror? I am really liking the one about making them be in an active game or they are booted from the scoreboard.


I don't like that players can be forced to join games they normally don't play and more often than not, they ll lose. Let them start standard team games on their choice whether dubs, trips, quads, whatever and simply allow anyone to join like all the big boys did back then and still won between 70-80% of there game religiously. Team games to me do not prove who the best players are. 8 man freestyle or standard on an easy map like classic would be a way to start. The skill is immense especially playing against top notch players tho I fear we won't see such stocked lineups nowadays unless the invite system is needed.
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Re: What makes an honorable conqueror?

Postby jsnyder748 on Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:11 am

codeblue1018 wrote:
jsnyder748 wrote:no,no the bickering is good. I like seeing 2 sides.

Does no one else have any suggestions for some restrictions to conqueror? I am really liking the one about making them be in an active game or they are booted from the scoreboard.


I don't like that players can be forced to join games they normally don't play and more often than not, they ll lose. Let them start standard team games on their choice whether dubs, trips, quads, whatever and simply allow anyone to join like all the big boys did back then and still won between 70-80% of there game religiously. Team games to me do not prove who the best players are. 8 man freestyle or standard on an easy map like classic would be a way to start. The skill is immense especially playing against top notch players tho I fear we won't see such stocked lineups nowadays unless the invite system is needed.


They wouldn't be forced to create games. But if they aren't playing it won't take 30 days to get off the scoreboard.

Did you mean speed games or standard? I am quite good at standard (and speed if I am at my home computer) and I am sure we would have enough to do these games all over again, but the variety provided today make them not as easy to fill. I would honestly rather play das schloss 8 person freestyle vs good opponents than classic. Dont get me wrong. I have had a lot of fun plying 8 person speed games and 8 person freestyle, but to get a competative game going I would need to make it private with invites.
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Re: What makes an honorable conqueror?

Postby Mr Changsha on Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:12 am

jsnyder748 wrote:no,no the bickering is good. I like seeing 2 sides.

Does no one else have any suggestions for some restrictions to conqueror? I am really liking the one about making them be in an active game or they are booted from the scoreboard.


I think the site should have a re-think and get rid of the conqueror rank.

It corrupts good players, because in the attempt to achieve it they must employ one of many dastardly methods.

Would we have had the same issue if the top rank was Field Marshal? ;)
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