escalating is just wrong

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Re: escalating is just wrong

Postby gordon1975 on Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:00 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:The thing that doesn't really sit well with me with escalating is how little the map seems to come into play. Not that it doesn't enter into it but the little nuances tend to matter less. I like the intimacy and the advantage of knowing every little nook and cranny of a map with no-spoils. I don't play flat rate btw unless it's a clan game or an accident.



exactly! kills the idea of the map
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Re: escalating is just wrong

Postby Armandolas on Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:58 pm

It does kill the idea of the map if u play the classic map. But then if u play classic i dont see also the big map strategy about it.

There are plelty maps where an escalating game can be a lot of fun and you really must know what you are doig in the map.
If you add fog to it, than you have a real challenge.

But again, its justa different game from no spoils, Diff strategy. I enjoy both and find flatties extremely boring. its just my opinion and my taste.
Also there is a big problem about escalating games. People that dont really know how to play it , usually are the reason why esc games are shorter.

Also jsnyder pointed soemthing that really satisfying. You start your turn and see...this is my round, im going to wipe this board. You just read every other option, go for it and succeed after an intense 20 minutes glued to the screen, like eating a big desert.
And the you have the moments when u just want to punch your table or even punch yourself,either because you couldnt kill the guy just for 1 troops, or just because you "accidentaly" forgot to kill that blue man hidden just in front of your eyes..llolol

So i think what people really like , is the adrenaline of it
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Re: escalating is just wrong

Postby Crazyirishman on Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:14 pm

I personally think flat rate can be fun and challenging if played under non-team settings. It involves timing out what I call "mini-sweeps" so that you can gain momentum and position that you know you won't lose. If forces you to prepare for a situation in which somebody could get a temporary +10 boost to the deploy that can f*ck up all your plans.
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Re: escalating is just wrong

Postby vonraider on Fri Apr 26, 2013 4:31 pm

I miss the diplomacy as well as the feeling of hate I can get towards those who have aligned against me when I play escalating games. I confess I get a thrill out of trying to figure out just the right time to break a truce as well. Plus it's great fun for me when I see people making personal attacks on each other in chat. Escalating may or may not demand more skill, I don't know as I am not that good of a player, but it just lacks the people factor that flat and no spoils offer.
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Re: escalating is just wrong

Postby Gabriel13 on Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:42 pm

Crazyirishman wrote:I personally think flat rate can be fun and challenging if played under non-team settings. It involves timing out what I call "mini-sweeps" so that you can gain momentum and position that you know you won't lose. If forces you to prepare for a situation in which somebody could get a temporary +10 boost to the deploy that can f*ck up all your plans.


Flat rate works really well in the monthly BR's! I kicked ass in the one I'm in from it. I think I've eliminated 20 people o.0
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Re: escalating is just wrong

Postby Begbie on Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:36 pm

Not that it particularly helps the discussion but escalating was the only card option in the original 1959 risk rules. It might be argued that the original is the best ie. original coca cola ingredients way more fun than now.....
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Re: escalating is just wrong

Postby ManBungalow on Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:41 pm

Armandolas wrote:Also , escalating is not CC invention, its part of the original Risk boar game rules

For real?

I don't think my Risk set has enough armies to manage even a small escalating game.
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Re: escalating is just wrong

Postby Armandolas on Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:47 pm

ManBungalow wrote:
Armandolas wrote:Also , escalating is not CC invention, its part of the original Risk boar game rules

For real?

I don't think my Risk set has enough armies to manage even a small escalating game.


never noticed?..lolol
When u get out of armies, u just have to write on little papers :)
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Re: escalating is just wrong

Postby pickleofdoom on Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:39 pm

Escalating sets was introduced as the official rules for the original American Risk. Currently the official rules for European Risk is something very close to the flat rate that we have. If u buy a Risk set in the UK, escalating will be mentioned only at the end of the rulebook under optional rules variants.

The very first version of Risk was French. Not sure what the original card settings were for Conquete du Monde. I read somewhere that there were no cards, but not sure how reliable the source is. Does anyone know?
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Re: escalating is just wrong

Postby jsnyder748 on Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:55 pm

pickleofdoom wrote:Escalating sets was introduced as the official rules for the original American Risk. Currently the official rules for European Risk is something very close to the flat rate that we have. If u buy a Risk set in the UK, escalating will be mentioned only at the end of the rulebook under optional rules variants.

The very first version of Risk was French. Not sure what the original card settings were for Conquete du Monde. I read somewhere that there were no cards, but not sure how reliable the source is. Does anyone know?

Ironic that the french invented risk :D

In the American version I think flat rate is mentioned somewhere in the rules but escalating is the preset
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Re: escalating is just wrong

Postby Begbie on Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:06 pm

Yes pickle you are right about it being french. May have even been an earlier version called 'S'enfuir' ;)

It did have cards

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Here are some other images

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And you can even buy a new unopened copy for a bargain 400 pounds!
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Re: escalating is just wrong

Postby Armandolas on Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:32 pm

nice stuff there
I did a bit research too, and ive found out that my 1st risk board didnt have escalating. It was bought in the late 80s or early 90s
It feels awkward to look at it know because im used to the looks of my current board wich was bought 6 years ago.
You can have a look at it here : http://www.coisas.com/Jogo-Risco---Majo ... on_details

..i feel nostalgic here...heheh...it remembers me many christmas eve spend with my cousin and brother
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Re: escalating is just wrong

Postby Mr Changsha on Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:04 pm

jsnyder748 wrote:
gordon1975 wrote:
jsnyder748 wrote:standard escalating games actually take much more skill than standard flat rate or no spoils. Flat rate and no spoils are mindless games that can take forever or be decided by an idiot move. Not that they aren't fun and can't be challenging.

To prove a point people who reach high ranks often play escalating games because if you know how to play them (pretty simple actually) it is way easier to win. Everyone is on even grounds playing flat rate or no spoils, but those who are more skilled in escalating will win more often.

I love the feeling of sweeping the entire board in one round and ending up with 300 troops :D

if somthings way easier to win,why would it take more skill? :)


It is easier to win vs people with less skill. In my opinion cooks are as good as anyone if you play flat rate. Obviously they miss turns and play irrationally but the skill required is attack, get bonus, attack others, get bonus. In escalating a cook will go for bonuses for 7 rounds and on round 8 you will sweep the board with cards.


I don't think you understand standard flat/no cards at all. The skill is actually about looking 10+ rounds ahead, positioning troops to influence the board, using diplomacy to influence the board. Never mind that one must survive the opening, stay active but not too active in the middle and then try to drag your troops percentage over 40 percent so that a sweep become possible.

The actual problem with no cards/flat before was stalemates between good players...and it stopped me playing in 2010. However, round limits have in my view made the game good again and it is great to be able to match wits with some excellent standard no cards players on standard games...rather than 8 man dubs (my previous solution) or even trips.
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Re: escalating is just wrong

Postby jsnyder748 on Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:09 pm

Mr Changsha wrote:
jsnyder748 wrote:
gordon1975 wrote:
jsnyder748 wrote:standard escalating games actually take much more skill than standard flat rate or no spoils. Flat rate and no spoils are mindless games that can take forever or be decided by an idiot move. Not that they aren't fun and can't be challenging.

To prove a point people who reach high ranks often play escalating games because if you know how to play them (pretty simple actually) it is way easier to win. Everyone is on even grounds playing flat rate or no spoils, but those who are more skilled in escalating will win more often.

I love the feeling of sweeping the entire board in one round and ending up with 300 troops :D

if somthings way easier to win,why would it take more skill? :)


It is easier to win vs people with less skill. In my opinion cooks are as good as anyone if you play flat rate. Obviously they miss turns and play irrationally but the skill required is attack, get bonus, attack others, get bonus. In escalating a cook will go for bonuses for 7 rounds and on round 8 you will sweep the board with cards.


I don't think you understand standard flat/no cards at all. The skill is actually about looking 10+ rounds ahead, positioning troops to influence the board, using diplomacy to influence the board. Never mind that one must survive the opening, stay active but not too active in the middle and then try to drag your troops percentage over 40 percent so that a sweep become possible.

The actual problem with no cards/flat before was stalemates between good players...and it stopped me playing in 2010. However, round limits have in my view made the game good again and it is great to be able to match wits with some excellent standard no cards players on standard games...rather than 8 man dubs (my previous solution) or even trips.


Ya I don't get flat rate and no spoils :roll: (sarcasm)
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Re: escalating is just wrong

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:28 pm

I definitely think that escalating is more of a "robotic" mode of play. You follow a formula and more or less ride the wave of it's mechanics.
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