Death of casual?

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Should old games be pushed to the back?

Yes
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43%
No
23
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Total votes : 40

Re: Death of casual?

Postby D4 Damager on Sun May 19, 2013 1:58 pm

This change increases my chances of getting involved in casual games. I can honestly say that "Join A Game" was functionally useless for me before, it just began with pages and pages of team games against three- and four-player teams that played together a lot, often from the same clan. I know enough to check these players game history, I doubt a newcomer would (or should). Curiously, these teams never thought to join each other's games, I wonder why??

I will use "Join A Game" now, it's much better.
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Re: Death of casual?

Postby Funkyterrance on Sun May 19, 2013 9:53 pm

D4 Damager wrote: Curiously, these teams never thought to join each other's games, I wonder why??

Hehe.

It's true though, why set it up to cater to a few people farming/medal hunting? It's just not in the direction of growth/freshness to keep it the old way.
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Re: Death of casual?

Postby ljex on Sun May 19, 2013 10:13 pm

Woodruff wrote:
ljex wrote:
greenoaks wrote:it's not, put a 4 or 5 player Classic or Realms 2 game up and it will fill. put an 8 player up on a map most people dislike such as Cricket and it won't.

if medals are what you want then you'll have to be more accommodating of what others on this site play, rather than creating 50 and waiting for your turn on the first page.


so essentially all this has done is restricted the types of games that can be played and you think this is good for the site?


If the games you want to play are popular with experienced players (which you claim to prefer to play against), then they will still fill almost as quickly, though now with non-noobs. If the games you want to play are not popular with experienced players, then they will take longer to fill. Which makes sense to me. Honestly, this sounds like the argument of someone who is disappointed they can no longer trick noobs into selecting their games.

ljex wrote:farming can still happen would you like me to prove it? sure people can still get medals, but at 5 player games vs 8 player games it takes an extra couple 100 games. Count me in sounds like this has been really effective.


Of course farming can still happen. Farming can happen with pretty much any automated system. From my perspective, this isn't a change made to deter farming as much as it is a change to deter mass-game-creators from dominating the first page of the game list, a part of the rationale being to get noobs involved in their games.


I am someone who actually realizes that this update has negative side effects. There has already been an update to stop people from hogging the first page an it is the show like games feature.

I was a farmer, I am not anymore take a look at my games if you want.

What I am annoyed about is that I can no longer start an 8 man game on off settings and expect it to start. Sure classic 8 man will start (people will search game finder for that) but not many people actively seek terminator or assassin games. Thus you can no longer expect those games to fill.
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Re: Death of casual?

Postby ljex on Sun May 19, 2013 10:15 pm

D4 Damager wrote:This change increases my chances of getting involved in casual games. I can honestly say that "Join A Game" was functionally useless for me before, it just began with pages and pages of team games against three- and four-player teams that played together a lot, often from the same clan. I know enough to check these players game history, I doubt a newcomer would (or should). Curiously, these teams never thought to join each other's games, I wonder why??

I will use "Join A Game" now, it's much better.


Clans battle eachother all the time, and there are threads/usergroups dedicated to players finding strong competition instead of the random opponents that join, but we will disregard those things and act like everyone enjoys playing noobs.

Most established players host games on the settings they want and let others join instead of searching for games on the off chance they find what they are looking for.
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Re: Death of casual?

Postby L M S on Sun May 19, 2013 10:56 pm

Is it possible to just have the first page a random sort of all the games? Maybe it refreshes every 3 days or something? Sort of a stumble upon approach?
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Re: Death of casual?

Postby ljex on Sun May 19, 2013 11:04 pm

L M S wrote:Is it possible to just have the first page a random sort of all the games? Maybe it refreshes every 3 days or something? Sort of a stumble upon approach?


That could work well, I also think the best solution is to just make it that players with less than x games only see simple maps and settings on the join a game page. This is already dont but only for the first 5 games which is probably too few.
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Re: Death of casual?

Postby L M S on Sun May 19, 2013 11:10 pm

Just an attempt to meet in the middle.
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Re: Death of casual?

Postby swimmerdude99 on Mon May 20, 2013 12:37 am

Medal hunting will no longer work well unless you play specific settings people often look for. I've found myself enjoying New World 8-man assassins. But they never fill now that the game finder changed. this sucks.

swimmerdude99 wrote:
ljex wrote:
L M S wrote:Is it possible to just have the first page a random sort of all the games? Maybe it refreshes every 3 days or something? Sort of a stumble upon approach?


That could work well, I also think the best solution is to just make it that players with less than x games only see simple maps and settings on the join a game page. This is already dont but only for the first 5 games which is probably too few.


I really like that Idea. Would it be hard to do it everyday... or even every page load? Or is the coding for that gonna back up the server?
Last edited by swimmerdude99 on Mon May 20, 2013 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Death of casual?

Postby Woodruff on Mon May 20, 2013 2:25 am

ljex wrote:
D4 Damager wrote:This change increases my chances of getting involved in casual games. I can honestly say that "Join A Game" was functionally useless for me before, it just began with pages and pages of team games against three- and four-player teams that played together a lot, often from the same clan. I know enough to check these players game history, I doubt a newcomer would (or should). Curiously, these teams never thought to join each other's games, I wonder why??

I will use "Join A Game" now, it's much better.


Clans battle eachother all the time, and there are threads/usergroups dedicated to players finding strong competition instead of the random opponents that join, but we will disregard those things and act like everyone enjoys playing noobs.


1. What do clan battles have to do with the "Join a game" function?
2. Why should someone have to read a thread or join a usergroup in order to find strong competition when they should be able to easily do so with the automated functions that are available?

ljex wrote:Most established players host games on the settings they want and let others join instead of searching for games on the off chance they find what they are looking for.


Honestly, the idea that "my game won't be on the first page, but I don't want to join anyone else's game smacks of trying to avoid real competition.
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Re: Death of casual?

Postby Woodruff on Mon May 20, 2013 2:30 am

ljex wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
ljex wrote:
greenoaks wrote:it's not, put a 4 or 5 player Classic or Realms 2 game up and it will fill. put an 8 player up on a map most people dislike such as Cricket and it won't.

if medals are what you want then you'll have to be more accommodating of what others on this site play, rather than creating 50 and waiting for your turn on the first page.


so essentially all this has done is restricted the types of games that can be played and you think this is good for the site?


If the games you want to play are popular with experienced players (which you claim to prefer to play against), then they will still fill almost as quickly, though now with non-noobs. If the games you want to play are not popular with experienced players, then they will take longer to fill. Which makes sense to me. Honestly, this sounds like the argument of someone who is disappointed they can no longer trick noobs into selecting their games.

ljex wrote:farming can still happen would you like me to prove it? sure people can still get medals, but at 5 player games vs 8 player games it takes an extra couple 100 games. Count me in sounds like this has been really effective.


Of course farming can still happen. Farming can happen with pretty much any automated system. From my perspective, this isn't a change made to deter farming as much as it is a change to deter mass-game-creators from dominating the first page of the game list, a part of the rationale being to get noobs involved in their games.


I am someone who actually realizes that this update has negative side effects. There has already been an update to stop people from hogging the first page an it is the show like games feature.


That feature is a plus, no doubt. But in my opinion it still doesn't correct for the problem that this one does.

ljex wrote:I was a farmer, I am not anymore take a look at my games if you want.


I don't consider you a farmer. But I am starting to wonder if you're not someone who wants to ensure a steady flow of easier wins (those are two very different things, in my mind) or someone whose primary goal is simply medals rather than playing the game itself. I don't think the site should particularly cater to medal-hunting at the expense of others.

ljex wrote:What I am annoyed about is that I can no longer start an 8 man game on off settings and expect it to start. Sure classic 8 man will start (people will search game finder for that) but not many people actively seek terminator or assassin games. Thus you can no longer expect those games to fill.


Then they must not be very popular among experienced players. That is sort of the problem in playing those sorts of games. It doesn't make sense to me to foist unpopular game-types onto people, which seems to be what you're advocating.
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Re: Death of casual?

Postby TeeGee on Mon May 20, 2013 7:17 am

For those of you saying that your games will never fill...


Have you tried advertising your games in callouts? It works for those who use it

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=31
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Re: Death of casual?

Postby PonyGal on Mon May 20, 2013 8:09 am

Big time mistake imo, I've had 30 x 8 player games sitting for months with not a single person join, let alone 8 in any of them. They will never fill. 8 player games are dead with this change. Medal hunting is dead. Playing unusual settings or lesser known maps is dead. The change limits the site considerably, upsets the long time loyal paying members more than it will attract new ones. Can CC advertise if they're declining? Not limit the site options for ppl who love to play various unusual maps and settings. If I were to now start inviting random ppl to join my games, as it's the only way to fill them it'd be invites abuse would it not? Or does cc completely object to players playing games & settings they're good at and enjoy? If there is such a problem with any particular map or setting combination then why are they available as a choice in the first place? There are better ways to encourage new members than annoying the long standing ones. Why not introduce something pro active such as a 'buddy' system where players can sign up to mentor a new person, make them feel welcome & play a few dubs as their team mate in exchange for a 'buddy medal' or such, or offer new recruits a medal if they attend a few society of the cooks courses? - or a block out where they cannot play with anyone of a 4.7 rating or less who is likely to be abusive in game chat. The best suggestion came from the gentleman who offered that there should be a drop down in the 'join a game' search option that lets ppl decide how many players they want in their game then search those (I know seasoned cc'ers use 'game finder' but new ppl would likely not, so a drop down is much friendlier for these ppl). People who enjoy unusual settings and maps will be forced to become sly in the way they try to fill their games now, or just not play them anymore & how likely are those people to continue to support a site that no longer caters to them? Regardless, there will from here on be a lack of variety of games ever played - as someone newly interested in medal hunting I know i'm far less interested in cc after this, it's defunct that whole concept entirely. Less variety = less supporters & less ongoing interest i'm telling ya. I renew each year because cc is the best value entertainment there is at the price & that is largely because of the massive variety in maps and settings and goal to achieve (rank, medals tourneys etc), People not joining up is not an 'order of games listed' issue, maybe long term members feel unheard .. maybe there is a lack of advertising drawing attention to our wonderful community. Respect to all the opposing opinions, this is just mine - cheers.
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Re: Death of casual?

Postby EagleofGreenErth on Mon May 20, 2013 9:05 am

The only people who will benefit from this are the people who play with the same partners or coordinate invites. This new option ultimately will result in fewer games being played and further the decline of the site...

PLUS, why are you pumping out so many shitty maps that only a handful of people would ever be interested in playing?? This is one of the biggest problems with the site....
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Re: Death of casual?

Postby ahunda on Mon May 20, 2013 9:28 am

The only people, who will be hurt by this, are the ones starting 10+ games on unpopular maps/settings, that only ever filled in the past by dropping all the way to page 1 of the *Join a Game* page, then got filled by unsuspecting/clueless *noobs*.

If you are truly interested in playing an unpopular map, you can use Callouts, PMs & Invites to get games going. If you are interested in having your games filled by clueless *noobs*, who don´t understand the map/settings or even basic team strategy, bad luck for you, and no sympathy from me.

This update will hurt farmers & point-hoarders, who artificially inflate their score by beating up *noobs* on niche maps/settings. And it should benefit first time visitors, who will now have a better chance to find a more standard Risk game on their first visit.

I´d still prefer this approach to the problem though:

ahunda wrote:a) Make 2 "Join a Game" pages. One for "Beginners" (only showing Sequential Standard games on standard maps), one including everything. Or simply hide all the special games by default, with an expand button "Show advanced/expert games", or something.

b) Hide all the special settings on the "Start a Game" & "Find a Game" pages too, yet again with an expand button "Show advanced/expert settings".

c) Create map categories. Separate the old school Risk style maps from the rest. Only include the standard Risk maps in "Beginners" Join/Find/Start a Game pages. With an expand button to unlock the rest.
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Re: Death of casual?

Postby Funkyterrance on Mon May 20, 2013 11:19 am

It's true that there are probably too many maps to choose from but this update will correct that too, the unpopular maps just won't get joined lol. It will also create a better gauge to the mapmakers as to what people actually want from a map. As it was, the not necessarily popular but more farmed maps were being essentially forced to fill by staying at the top. If the maps that more people actually want to play will now get played more, it will give the mapmakers something to go by aside from their own egos or the farm-ability of a new map when they are thinking dreaming up a new one.

But yeah, as far as the medal hunting goes, don't you guys have any friends? If you just need medals, start a club where all you medal hunters can get your medals by playing each other over and over and over if that's what you're really after. The unique kills you can get by (gasp!) playing games set up by someone else.
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