Has Anyone Noticed?

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Re: Has Anyone Noticed?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri May 17, 2013 12:20 pm

TeeGee wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote:I know it's much more fun to bitch but has anyone noticed that there have been some pretty thoughtful improvements to CC lately? The quick edit thing, the changes to the games waiting list, etc..

To risk not being in fashion, I would have to say CC has become more fun for me in the past month or so. Perhaps some credit is due to the new leadership? I'm thinking these changes are a sign of good things to come.


Still not seeing any substantial changes that will entice more new comers to stay here.

The quickedit feature was a waste of resources which satisfied x-amount of regular forum users, who are a very small minority of the total users.


But I wonder: How satisfying is the Quickedit feature for the mods and CC-volunteers?


I haven't had a chance to use it yet.. can I play with your posts? :P



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Re: Has Anyone Noticed?

Postby Metsfanmax on Fri May 17, 2013 12:38 pm

This may surprise BBS, but it is not actually a law anywhere that companies must make the most profit-maximizing decisions. Sometimes a company can make a decision to reward its most loyal customers, and it's really not the end of the world.
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Re: Has Anyone Noticed?

Postby Funkyterrance on Fri May 17, 2013 2:18 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:This may surprise BBS, but it is not actually a law anywhere that companies must make the most profit-maximizing decisions. Sometimes a company can make a decision to reward its most loyal customers, and it's really not the end of the world.

This is of course absolutely true but It's also generally in the best interest of a company to satisfy it's loyal customers as well as it's potential ones. In other words, rewarding loyal customers and maximizing profit are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

While BBS may be able to tell us the textbook definition of what makes a market, he's just as clueless as the rest of us as to what specific changes will create a more marketable CC.
Again, I feel that activity/experimentation is more likely to find the answer to membership decline than inactivity/pussy-footing around what the "voice" of the community says, which consists of a relatively small handful of users AKA forum goers. It's great to get ideas from players but I don't see the harm in trying out updates to see their impact membership-wise if they seem like they are worthy.
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Re: Has Anyone Noticed?

Postby Gilligan on Fri May 17, 2013 2:20 pm

TeeGee wrote:
nietzsche wrote:(Nietzsche edit)



Looks like I miss all the good stuff


Lucky, I almost had to gauge my eyes.
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Re: Has Anyone Noticed?

Postby Fewnix on Fri May 17, 2013 2:31 pm

Well said. To the new owner. Appreciate all that you have done, are doing and will do

. =D> =D> =D>

, t
Funkyterrance wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:This may surprise BBS, but it is not actually a law anywhere that companies must make the most profit-maximizing decisions. Sometimes a company can make a decision to reward its most loyal customers, and it's really not the end of the world.

This is of course absolutely true but It's also generally in the best interest of a company to satisfy it's loyal customers as well as it's potential ones. In other words, rewarding loyal customers and maximizing profit are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

While BBS may be able to tell us the textbook definition of what makes a market, he's just as clueless as the rest of us as to what specific changes will create a more marketable CC.
Again, I feel that activity/experimentation is more likely to find the answer to membership decline than inactivity/pussy-footing around what the "voice" of the community says, which consists of a relatively small handful of users AKA forum goers. It's great to get ideas from players but I don't see the harm in trying out updates to see their impact membership-wise if they seem like they are worthy.
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Re: Has Anyone Noticed?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri May 17, 2013 4:44 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:This may surprise BBS, but it is not actually a law anywhere that companies must make the most profit-maximizing decisions. Sometimes a company can make a decision to reward its most loyal customers, and it's really not the end of the world.


Companies don't gear toward a loss intentionally, but please argue that they do. If not, then we can agree that profit is the goal. Although there are many means and different targets of profit, that still doesn't refute the fact that companies strive to become profitable. Note: profit-maximization has to be understood in context too (i.e. it is particular to time and place).

RE: the underlined,
no one here is saying that's the end of the world, but strawman full speed ahead, sir.

Although a few customers may have been satisfied with marginal improvements, does that correct the current trend of decline? Does that bring CC to the path of long-run profitability? (Is that even the goal of the owner, or is he hoping to sell soon and be done with it?)

If these insignificant improvements do not lead to profitability, then those resources (thought, time, labor, etc.) which were spent on improving insignificant aspects were wasted--relative to pursuing better opportunities. Do you feel that CC is pursuing the better opportunities?
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Re: Has Anyone Noticed?

Postby Metsfanmax on Fri May 17, 2013 4:47 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:This may surprise BBS, but it is not actually a law anywhere that companies must make the most profit-maximizing decisions. Sometimes a company can make a decision to reward its most loyal customers, and it's really not the end of the world.


Companies don't gear toward a loss intentionally, but please argue that they do. If not, then we can agree that profit is the goal. Although there are many means and different targets of profit, that still doesn't refute the fact that companies strive to become profitable. Note: profit-maximization has to be understood in context too (i.e. it is particular to time and place).

RE: the underlined,
no one here is saying that's the end of the world, but strawman full speed ahead, sir.

Although a few customers may have been satisfied with marginal improvements, does that correct the current trend of decline? Does that bring CC to the path of long-run profitability? (Is that even the goal of the owner, or is he hoping to sell soon and be done with it?)

If these insignificant improvements do not lead to profitability, then those resources (thought, time, labor, etc.) which were spent on improving insignificant aspects were wasted--relative to pursuing better opportunities. Do you feel that CC is pursuing the better opportunities?


Do you have evidence that the site is in a "current trend of decline," or that it is not currently "long-run profitable?"
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Re: Has Anyone Noticed?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri May 17, 2013 4:50 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:This may surprise BBS, but it is not actually a law anywhere that companies must make the most profit-maximizing decisions. Sometimes a company can make a decision to reward its most loyal customers, and it's really not the end of the world.


Companies don't gear toward a loss intentionally, but please argue that they do. If not, then we can agree that profit is the goal. Although there are many means and different targets of profit, that still doesn't refute the fact that companies strive to become profitable. Note: profit-maximization has to be understood in context too (i.e. it is particular to time and place).

RE: the underlined,
no one here is saying that's the end of the world, but strawman full speed ahead, sir.

Although a few customers may have been satisfied with marginal improvements, does that correct the current trend of decline? Does that bring CC to the path of long-run profitability? (Is that even the goal of the owner, or is he hoping to sell soon and be done with it?)

If these insignificant improvements do not lead to profitability, then those resources (thought, time, labor, etc.) which were spent on improving insignificant aspects were wasted--relative to pursuing better opportunities. Do you feel that CC is pursuing the better opportunities?


Do you have evidence that the site is in a "current trend of decline," or that it is not currently "long-run profitable?"


I'm not going to address your question until you reciprocate. Otherwise, you're not proving that you're worth the discussion.
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Re: Has Anyone Noticed?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri May 17, 2013 4:56 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:This may surprise BBS, but it is not actually a law anywhere that companies must make the most profit-maximizing decisions. Sometimes a company can make a decision to reward its most loyal customers, and it's really not the end of the world.

This is of course absolutely true but It's also generally in the best interest of a company to satisfy it's loyal customers as well as it's potential ones. In other words, rewarding loyal customers and maximizing profit are not necessarily mutually exclusive.


Correct.


Funkyterrance wrote:While BBS may be able to tell us the textbook definition of what makes a market, he's just as clueless as the rest of us as to what specific changes will create a more marketable CC.


RE: underlined, perhaps, but I agree that without better data, I can't make more informed opinions. Based on what I see, it's not impressive. IIRC you think it is impressive, so we can agree to disagree. :D

Funkyterrance wrote:Again, I feel that activity/experimentation is more likely to find the answer to membership decline than inactivity/pussy-footing around what the "voice" of the community says, which consists of a relatively small handful of users AKA forum goers. It's great to get ideas from players but I don't see the harm in trying out updates to see their impact membership-wise if they seem like they are worthy.


Perhaps you're right, but my frustration is our limited information of the situation--which is problematic when you have others yell for suggestions which aren't that useful. The lack of information may be creating a less than useful feedback loop, and (hopefully) the mods are superb at filtering out the bad from the good, and choosing the best among the good (I doubt this is happening, but it seems you take an optimistic view toward this).

By limited information, I mean that we lack answers to the following:
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Re: Has Anyone Noticed?

Postby Metsfanmax on Fri May 17, 2013 5:11 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:This may surprise BBS, but it is not actually a law anywhere that companies must make the most profit-maximizing decisions. Sometimes a company can make a decision to reward its most loyal customers, and it's really not the end of the world.


Companies don't gear toward a loss intentionally, but please argue that they do. If not, then we can agree that profit is the goal. Although there are many means and different targets of profit, that still doesn't refute the fact that companies strive to become profitable. Note: profit-maximization has to be understood in context too (i.e. it is particular to time and place).

RE: the underlined,
no one here is saying that's the end of the world, but strawman full speed ahead, sir.

Although a few customers may have been satisfied with marginal improvements, does that correct the current trend of decline? Does that bring CC to the path of long-run profitability? (Is that even the goal of the owner, or is he hoping to sell soon and be done with it?)

If these insignificant improvements do not lead to profitability, then those resources (thought, time, labor, etc.) which were spent on improving insignificant aspects were wasted--relative to pursuing better opportunities. Do you feel that CC is pursuing the better opportunities?


Do you have evidence that the site is in a "current trend of decline," or that it is not currently "long-run profitable?"


I'm not going to address your question until you reciprocate. Otherwise, you're not proving that you're worth the discussion.


You're not actually trying to have a discussion here. You're throwing out these questions about whether the administration has evaluated what the best managerial moves are, but you've clearly already formed an opinion in your mind that they have not (hence your language about the "current trend of decline"). That suggests that you think they have not actually done this evaluation to your standard, and so your questions are rhetorical.
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Re: Has Anyone Noticed?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri May 17, 2013 9:07 pm

You're making up a bunch of nonsense because I'm refusing to hold a discussion with you for reasons already stated yet ignored. Maybe if you act more like an ass, you'll get what you want?
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Re: Has Anyone Noticed?

Postby Funkyterrance on Fri May 17, 2013 9:15 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
If these insignificant improvements do not lead to profitability, then those resources (thought, time, labor, etc.) which were spent on improving insignificant aspects were wasted--relative to pursuing better opportunities. Do you feel that CC is pursuing the better opportunities?

The problem is it's not blatantly obvious which improvements are are most cost effective. An "insignificant" update may actually be an efficient use of time/resources if it's relative cost is small. I can't say if CC is pursuing the best opportuities because it's hard telling not knowing but yeah, I do have some faith that they are smart enough to learn from their actions.

BigBallinStalin wrote: Would the resources spent on [insert superficial improvement here] have been better spent on more important features?

Do the decision-makers even know how to determine which is more important?


Are they satisfying the right groups at the right time with the highest priority?

How do they know?

The answers to these questions are also hard to say but it stands to reason that the decision makers, having better access to the data regarding the site, would be able to make the most educated guess. Even then, I'm sure there is a good deal of guesswork as well as some faith in the users to have half a clue as to what they want and(this is a leap) what will attract new users. The latter is of course the biggest unknown of all.

BigBallinStalin wrote: Although a few customers may have been satisfied with marginal improvements, does that correct the current trend of decline?

Does that bring CC to the path of long-run profitability? (Is that even the goal of the owner, or is he hoping to sell soon and be done with it?)

If these insignificant improvements do not lead to profitability, then those resources (thought, time, labor, etc.) which were spent on improving insignificant aspects were wasted--relative to pursuing better opportunities. Do you feel that CC is pursuing the better opportunities?

I honestly think that the important thing is that they are trying. You could spend all day debating which updates are going to be the most profitable/cost effective for the long run but until you actually try some out it's all just conjecture. Eventually you have to get your hands dirty and do some wading in order to have any kind of idea what really will make a positive difference and I feel that's just what they're doing. They may make some mistakes/non-optimal choices but if they pay attention to the resultant trends I think they will prevail.
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Re: Has Anyone Noticed?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri May 17, 2013 9:38 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:I honestly think that the important thing is that they are trying. You could spend all day debating which updates are going to be the most profitable/cost effective for the long run but until you actually try some out it's all just conjecture. Eventually you have to get your hands dirty and do some wading in order to have any kind of idea what really will make a positive difference and I feel that's just what they're doing. They may make some mistakes/non-optimal choices but if they pay attention to the resultant trends I think they will prevail.


I hope so, but I think they lack the know-how--even though there's plenty of ideas on the board. Instead of your utopian vision, I look forward to a hallowed-out CC of 30 grumpy, regular forum-goers. In the desolate corner of cyberspace, their arguments would escape the notice of those in the RL. Then over the years, they slowly wither away, but their posts shall remain as incomplete reflections of their souls--both tortured and misunderstood.

I can dream, can't I, FT?
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Re: Has Anyone Noticed?

Postby Funkyterrance on Sat May 18, 2013 12:14 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:I hope so, but I think they lack the know-how--even though there's plenty of ideas on the board. Instead of your utopian vision, I look forward to a hallowed-out CC of 30 grumpy, regular forum-goers. In the desolate corner of cyberspace, their arguments would escape the notice of those in the RL. Then over the years, they slowly wither away, but their posts shall remain as incomplete reflections of their souls--both tortured and misunderstood.

I can dream, can't I, FT?

Lolz.
Yeah, I'm being optimistic I'll admit but let's call it a hunch? Your version certainly sounds more romantic, I'll give you that.
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Re: Has Anyone Noticed?

Postby Dukasaur on Sat May 18, 2013 5:47 pm

Funkyterrance wrote:I honestly think that the important thing is that they are trying. You could spend all day debating which updates are going to be the most profitable/cost effective for the long run but until you actually try some out it's all just conjecture. Eventually you have to get your hands dirty and do some wading in order to have any kind of idea what really will make a positive difference and I feel that's just what they're doing. They may make some mistakes/non-optimal choices but if they pay attention to the resultant trends I think they will prevail.

+1

Public interest is fickle, and despite propaganda to the contrary, marketing is more of an art than a science. A majority of people in focus groups preferred New Coke over old, but when released to the public, it was a legendary flop. Ultimately sometimes the only way forward is to just put one foot in front of the other and see what happens.
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Re: Has Anyone Noticed?

Postby greenoaks on Sat May 18, 2013 6:07 pm

not long after the site changed hands the new owner pm'd me saying he'd really like to hear my thoughts on how to improve Tournaments. i felt honoured so i clicked reply and got

The webmaster does not accept messages.
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Re: Has Anyone Noticed?

Postby Funkyterrance on Sat May 18, 2013 9:47 pm

Dukasaur wrote:Public interest is fickle, and despite propaganda to the contrary, marketing is more of an art than a science. A majority of people in focus groups preferred New Coke over old, but when released to the public, it was a legendary flop. Ultimately sometimes the only way forward is to just put one foot in front of the other and see what happens.

Great case in point, Dukasaur.
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Re: Has Anyone Noticed?

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri May 24, 2013 8:12 pm

greenoaks wrote:not long after the site changed hands the new owner pm'd me saying he'd really like to hear my thoughts on how to improve Tournaments. i felt honoured so i clicked reply and got

The webmaster does not accept messages.


Send a PM to King Achilles; he'll fix the problem by banning you or something. Customer service and all that.
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Re: Has Anyone Noticed?

Postby Frito Bandito on Fri May 24, 2013 8:51 pm

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote:I honestly think that the important thing is that they are trying. You could spend all day debating which updates are going to be the most profitable/cost effective for the long run but until you actually try some out it's all just conjecture. Eventually you have to get your hands dirty and do some wading in order to have any kind of idea what really will make a positive difference and I feel that's just what they're doing. They may make some mistakes/non-optimal choices but if they pay attention to the resultant trends I think they will prevail.


I hope so, but I think they lack the know-how--even though there's plenty of ideas on the board. Instead of your utopian vision, I look forward to a hallowed-out CC of 30 grumpy, regular forum-goers. In the desolate corner of cyberspace, their arguments would escape the notice of those in the RL. Then over the years, they slowly wither away, but their posts shall remain as incomplete reflections of their souls--both tortured and misunderstood.

I can dream, can't I, FT?



You do realize, BBS, you are one of the 30 grumpy regulars? :)
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Re: Has Anyone Noticed?

Postby Woodruff on Sat May 25, 2013 1:28 am

Funkyterrance wrote:I know it's much more fun to bitch but has anyone noticed that there have been some pretty thoughtful improvements to CC lately? The quick edit thing, the changes to the games waiting list, etc..

To risk not being in fashion, I would have to say CC has become more fun for me in the past month or so. Perhaps some credit is due to the new leadership? I'm thinking these changes are a sign of good things to come.


Meh...do we still have relatively-simple 6-year-old suggestions-that-are-really-bug-fixes uncoded? Can't say I'm that impressed.
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Re: Has Anyone Noticed?

Postby Funkyterrance on Sat May 25, 2013 1:03 pm

Woodruff wrote:Meh...do we still have relatively-simple 6-year-old suggestions-that-are-really-bug-fixes uncoded? Can't say I'm that impressed.

These things take time, Woody. How many years did you give the old regime before you dropped your premium? I still say that the new management seems busy and that's a good thing.
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Re: Has Anyone Noticed?

Postby ljex on Sat May 25, 2013 3:52 pm

greenoaks wrote:not long after the site changed hands the new owner pm'd me saying he'd really like to hear my thoughts on how to improve Tournaments. i felt honoured so i clicked reply and got

The webmaster does not accept messages.


That is likely old coding from Lackattack's webmaster days. It may be that the current webmaster is not even aware that this is an issue. I would suggest sending rds a reply.

The fact that the new webmaster even asked is a step up from lack though
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Re: Has Anyone Noticed?

Postby greenoaks on Sat May 25, 2013 5:31 pm

ljex wrote:
greenoaks wrote:not long after the site changed hands the new owner pm'd me saying he'd really like to hear my thoughts on how to improve Tournaments. i felt honoured so i clicked reply and got

The webmaster does not accept messages.


That is likely old coding from Lackattack's webmaster days. It may be that the current webmaster is not even aware that this is an issue. I would suggest sending rds a reply.

The fact that the new webmaster even asked is a step up from lack though

that never occurred to me.
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Re: Has Anyone Noticed?

Postby Dukasaur on Sat May 25, 2013 7:11 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Funkyterrance wrote:I know it's much more fun to bitch but has anyone noticed that there have been some pretty thoughtful improvements to CC lately? The quick edit thing, the changes to the games waiting list, etc..

To risk not being in fashion, I would have to say CC has become more fun for me in the past month or so. Perhaps some credit is due to the new leadership? I'm thinking these changes are a sign of good things to come.


Meh...do we still have relatively-simple 6-year-old suggestions-that-are-really-bug-fixes uncoded? Can't say I'm that impressed.

You've alluded to this 6-year-old suggestion at least 10 times in the two years that I've been here. Would you please enlighten us about what it is? Perhaps it's buried in the pile and none of people in charge now have ever seen it. I would be happy to bring it to someone's attention for you.
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Re: Has Anyone Noticed?

Postby Gillipig on Wed May 29, 2013 5:19 am

Funkyterrance wrote:I know it's much more fun to bitch but has anyone noticed that there have been some pretty thoughtful improvements to CC lately? The quick edit thing, the changes to the games waiting list, etc..

To risk not being in fashion, I would have to say CC has become more fun for me in the past month or so. Perhaps some credit is due to the new leadership? I'm thinking these changes are a sign of good things to come.

No one is as out of fashion as you funky, you have nothing to fear. The bottom is already yours, you can't sink any lower mate.
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