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Nuclear spoil order

Postby oliverkelly on Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:06 am

Is there an order to the appearance with nuclear or other spoils.
For example if you are playing nuclear and you get dealt New York, could someone else have it at the same time ?
If you play the spoil, could New York appear immediately for someone else in the next turn, or does it have to wait until all other territories have been dealt out ?

I tried searching but couldn't find an answer.
:?:
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Re: Nuclear spoil order

Postby Mad777 on Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:42 am

What I can tell is the used spoil/card goes back to the deck and that deck get shuffle any turn, I have receive the same spoil back after use and the next round few time so that is telling me the system is not waiting for all other card to be use.

Now as far receiving duplicated card I can't answer since I never seen it however if you play a Battle Royale game and there is more player who card than the available territories then it is a possibility but can't be sure for real.
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Re: Nuclear spoil order

Postby oliverkelly on Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:43 am

Thank you.
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Re: Nuclear spoil order

Postby Dukasaur on Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:45 am

oliverkelly wrote:Is there an order to the appearance with nuclear or other spoils.
For example if you are playing nuclear and you get dealt New York, could someone else have it at the same time ?
If you play the spoil, could New York appear immediately for someone else in the next turn, or does it have to wait until all other territories have been dealt out ?

I tried searching but couldn't find an answer.
:?:


Depends on the size of the map. Since you said New York, I'll assume you're talking Classic map. Duplicates there are possible only if there are 9 or more players, and even then they are relatively unlikely.

The system will not give out a duplicate card until all territories have been covered, but duplicates do occur. They only occur if there are large numbers of players in the game or it's on a small map.

"Average" scenario (Classic map, 6 players) -- there are 42 territories on the map. If there are six players in the game, and they all have five cards, that's still only 30 cards, so there will never be any duplicates.

Same map with 9 players -- still 42 territories, but if each player has 5 cards, that's 45 cards, so there will be 3 duplicates. It's rare for all the players to have 5 cards at once, but it is possible. So, you can say that with 9 players on Classic map, duplicates are possible but rather unlikely.

Same map with 12 players -- still 42 territories, but if each player has 5 cards, it's now 60 cards. Furthermore, even if each player has only 4 cards, that's 48 cards, so duplicates are a lot more common in this scenario.

Large map - Stalingrad (99 territories) -- even with 12 players holding 5 cards each, that's only 60 cards, and there are 99 territories, so there will NEVER be a duplicate. (Well, there could be in a Battle Royale, but that's a vanishingly small percentage of games, so we'll ignore it.)

Small map - Luxembourg (19 territories) -- this is the other side of the coin. Even with 4 players holding 5 cards each, that's 20 cards for only 19 territories, so there will be at least one duplicate.

Same map with 9 players -- Still only 19 territories, and if each player has 2 cards that's 18 or almost all of them. If there are 9 players holding an average of 3 cards each, that's 27 cards so many duplicates will occur.

In summary, yes, duplicates do occur, but only on smaller maps and with more players. Classic and most of the early maps have 42 terts. You can go to the Map Statistics page to look up how many territories are on the map you're playing. Add up how many cards the players have at their peak, subtract the number of terts, and that will tell you if a duplicate is possible in your game.
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Re: Nuclear spoil order

Postby oliverkelly on Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:48 am

Thank you. I was interested for the nuclear or zombie games, as you can leave a territory with only 1 army, hope it is conquered and then nuke it if you have the spoil, but also I can now sort of work out how long before the card may appear again.
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Re: Nuclear spoil order

Postby 2dimes on Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:59 pm

I have played nuke where the same place gets bombed several times while other territories might not get bombed the entire game.

So I have no idea if there are more than one of the same card but the cards can repeat a fair bit.
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Re: Nuclear spoil order

Postby riskllama on Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:16 pm

depends on map size/# of terts, # of players. if every possible card is in play, they get repeated.
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Re: Nuclear spoil order

Postby Dukasaur on Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:48 pm

I love how after I provide the definitive answer, people still post saying they have no idea.

Pro Tip: After someone writes down the right answer, copy their paper...:P
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Re: Nuclear spoil order

Postby IcePack on Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:12 pm

Actually this prompted a different question I have regarding spoil orders.

Scenario:
Two players (whether two player game or not doesn’t matter there are only two left) and it’s a nuke game (or zombie same affect)

Each player has only one territory each.
Player A has a 3 card set, his territory, his opponents territory, and a third neutral one. He nukes his three cards.

Who dies first / wins on the game? What’s the order of implimentstion of the three cards?
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Re: Nuclear spoil order

Postby 2dimes on Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:39 pm

Dear Madam,

Why do I get to blow up one territory nine times in a row while never seeing a west New Zealand card, playing my favorite small map World 2.0?
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Re: Nuclear spoil order

Postby Dukasaur on Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:45 pm

2dimes wrote:Dear Madam,

Why do I get to blow up one territory nine times in a row while never seeing a west New Zealand card, playing my favorite small map World 2.0?


Dear Four Nickels

It's because you have offended the Card Gods. Recite the Periodic Table backwards, while slapping yourself in the head rhythmically. Do this three times each day for four hundred days and your luck will improve.

You may be able to blow up a territory nine times in a row, but I guarantee it's not on the same turn.

IcePack wrote:Actually this prompted a different question I have regarding spoil orders.

Scenario:
Two players (whether two player game or not doesn’t matter there are only two left) and it’s a nuke game (or zombie same affect)

Each player has only one territory each.
Player A has a 3 card set, his territory, his opponents territory, and a third neutral one. He nukes his three cards.

Who dies first / wins on the game? What’s the order of implimentstion of the three cards?


Interesting question. Not a clue...:)
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Re: Nuclear spoil order

Postby CatchersMitt14 on Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:03 pm

IcePack wrote:Actually this prompted a different question I have regarding spoil orders.

Scenario:
Two players (whether two player game or not doesn’t matter there are only two left) and it’s a nuke game (or zombie same affect)

Each player has only one territory each.
Player A has a 3 card set, his territory, his opponents territory, and a third neutral one. He nukes his three cards.

Who dies first / wins on the game? What’s the order of implimentstion of the three cards?

I've had the luck cast upon me, now I'm trying (and failing) to remember what happened.

I want to say it goes in the order you picked up the cards but I'm not sure.
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Re: Nuclear spoil order

Postby Mad777 on Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:41 pm

CatchersMitt14 wrote:
IcePack wrote:Actually this prompted a different question I have regarding spoil orders.

Scenario:
Two players (whether two player game or not doesn’t matter there are only two left) and it’s a nuke game (or zombie same affect)

Each player has only one territory each.
Player A has a 3 card set, his territory, his opponents territory, and a third neutral one. He nukes his three cards.

Who dies first / wins on the game? What’s the order of implimentstion of the three cards?

I've had the luck cast upon me, now I'm trying (and failing) to remember what happened.

I want to say it goes in the order you picked up the cards but I'm not sure.

That is a good question, who may have the answer? BW?
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Re: Nuclear spoil order

Postby 2dimes on Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:02 pm

Why would I want to change my "luck"? I just make sure I don't collect a bunch of guys and especially keep them away from any region that gets bombed. It's probably going to be bombed again soon enough.

Are you sure I'm not blowing up the same territory on the same turn?*
















* Not sure the point of that since it was still a single neutral until it became whatever colour a conquerer is when they take it next time which would of course be after the "same" turn.
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Re: Nuclear spoil order

Postby CatchersMitt14 on Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:14 pm

Mad777 wrote:
CatchersMitt14 wrote:
IcePack wrote:Actually this prompted a different question I have regarding spoil orders.

Scenario:
Two players (whether two player game or not doesn’t matter there are only two left) and it’s a nuke game (or zombie same affect)

Each player has only one territory each.
Player A has a 3 card set, his territory, his opponents territory, and a third neutral one. He nukes his three cards.

Who dies first / wins on the game? What’s the order of implimentstion of the three cards?

I've had the luck cast upon me, now I'm trying (and failing) to remember what happened.

I want to say it goes in the order you picked up the cards but I'm not sure.

That is a good question, who may have the answer? BW?

bigWham wrote:i'd want to test to be sure but it seems from the code that it cashes them in order received, which i think would be in order left to right, which should be the order received. nice metaphysical question ;)
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Re: Nuclear spoil order

Postby 2dimes on Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:23 pm

Where did he write that?
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Re: Nuclear spoil order

Postby CatchersMitt14 on Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:24 pm

2dimes wrote:Where did he write that?

My inbox.
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Re: Nuclear spoil order

Postby 2dimes on Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:26 pm

Hot!
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Re: Nuclear spoil order

Postby CatchersMitt14 on Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:27 pm

2dimes wrote:Hot!

Only if it's on my wall.
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Re: Nuclear spoil order

Postby 2dimes on Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:28 pm

I was hoping you'd write inter-office memo to be completly honest.
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