Mafia Tournament

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Re: Mafia Tournament

Postby vodean on Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:44 am

the problem with a vote is that there are 24 candidates. (or 20, or whatever)
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Re: Mafia Tournament

Postby safariguy5 on Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:16 pm

Nebuchadnezer wrote:
safariguy5 wrote:I think the top players should be voted on by the players. Mods can definitely input opinions, but a consensus top players can be culled from the games.


Yah, the players/mods will know who contributed and who just rode along for the win. But how to quantify? Players/mods vote top 3? Top 5?

In the games I've run with premium prize for the MVP, consensus seems to come pretty easily as to who the top performers were. The main issue I see is finding the good players from the losing faction. Surviving for a long time is one factor to consider, but all around play needs to be weighed as well.

I'd be happy to help mod, I think edoc, Mr. Squirrel, or strike would make fine choices as third mods. If someone else wants to step up and mod as well, I'd be fine with that as well.
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Re: Mafia Tournament

Postby edocsil on Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:49 pm

safariguy5 wrote:
Nebuchadnezer wrote:
safariguy5 wrote:I think the top players should be voted on by the players. Mods can definitely input opinions, but a consensus top players can be culled from the games.


Yah, the players/mods will know who contributed and who just rode along for the win. But how to quantify? Players/mods vote top 3? Top 5?

In the games I've run with premium prize for the MVP, consensus seems to come pretty easily as to who the top performers were. The main issue I see is finding the good players from the losing faction. Surviving for a long time is one factor to consider, but all around play needs to be weighed as well.

I'd be happy to help mod, I think edoc, Mr. Squirrel, or strike would make fine choices as third mods. If someone else wants to step up and mod as well, I'd be fine with that as well.


I would be willing to, and after my pantheon is over I will only have more game to go. Obviously unwilling to mod while that series is wrapping up.
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Re: Mafia Tournament

Postby jgordon1111 on Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:05 pm

Sounds like you guys are getting close to hammering out the fine details of this,let me know when you have it worked out,this sounds like it could be winner,love to play in a mafia tournament.

But you have to remember some roles are harder to play. Example on CC having a survivor role is tatamount to death,therefore should be given more points. Godfather is tough to pull off as well,you better be good at lying and covering your tracks.

That way you get a better idea of who played what how well.

VT,investigative,roleblocker,vig,etc 1 point.

survivor 2 points.

mafia godfather,doc,etc 3 points.
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Re: Mafia Tournament

Postby safariguy5 on Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:59 pm

jgordon1111 wrote:Sounds like you guys are getting close to hammering out the fine details of this,let me know when you have it worked out,this sounds like it could be winner,love to play in a mafia tournament.

But you have to remember some roles are harder to play. Example on CC having a survivor role is tatamount to death,therefore should be given more points. Godfather is tough to pull off as well,you better be good at lying and covering your tracks.

That way you get a better idea of who played what how well.

VT,investigative,roleblocker,vig,etc 1 point.

survivor 2 points.

mafia godfather,doc,etc 3 points.

True, but how are we supposed to score it? Points if they win? Extra points if they survive?

Part of it also is luck of the draw. If one person consistently gets stronger roles, then they will get more points if their side wins.

And therein lies the problem of trying to quantify skill. Certainly, you can use your role to influence the outcome of the game, but it's very difficult to figure out who contributed more to a game/deserves to move on.

For example, let's say we have a game where person A was a VT and was killed early on (Night 1/Night 2). And let's say we have a mafia roleblocker, Person B, who fought tooth and nail and got the game down to LYLO but lost in the end. Do we say that the VT "deserved" to get the points more than the roleblocker? Or do we say the VT "got lucky" that his side pulled out the win after he died.

Which is why I suggest a voting system for the best players. Certainly, MVP can get more points, and have it go down from there, but I feel it weights the scoring a little more fairly to get some measure of skill instead of straight wins and losses, which can be a deceiving stat.
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Re: Mafia Tournament

Postby jgordon1111 on Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:15 pm

Then try having the MOD along with 2 other non in game players that have alot of MOD experience decide who gets points,depending on roles and gameplay, You guys know who is floating and who is playing,that along with their respective role no matter what it is,what and how much they contributed. example if they were a VT that during gameplay specifically drew mafia out to kill them instead of a power role.

obverse of this would be someone who wanted to BW lynch everyone that was put forward with no evidence,even a player who is mafia is not that dumb.
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Re: Mafia Tournament

Postby safariguy5 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:59 pm

jgordon1111 wrote:Then try having the MOD along with 2 other non in game players that have alot of MOD experience decide who gets points,depending on roles and gameplay, You guys know who is floating and who is playing,that along with their respective role no matter what it is,what and how much they contributed. example if they were a VT that during gameplay specifically drew mafia out to kill them instead of a power role.

obverse of this would be someone who wanted to BW lynch everyone that was put forward with no evidence,even a player who is mafia is not that dumb.

By that approach, we open ourselves up to certain player biases. Certainly, the more experienced we are, the chummier we tend to be with other experienced players. It's like the C&A forum, there's a possibility for disconnect with what the community believes should be right and what the mods think is right. I'd prefer a vote of the top 3 or whatever and award points that way because the players of the game have read every post and certainly know where the pivotal moments are.
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Re: Mafia Tournament

Postby thechuck51 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:15 pm

What about some sort of scoring rubric for each role based on what the optimum play would be? Max points could be based on how hard it is to win with a particular role.

examples...

Town Doctor (max 5 points)
5 pts - Win with town and prevent 3 kills
4 pts - Win with town and prevent 2 kills
3 pts - prevent 2 kills
2 pts - Win with town and prevent 1 kill
1 pt - prevent 1 kill
0 pts - prevent 0 kills

Serial Killer (max 10 points)
10 pts - Win
9 pts - out last mafia
8 pts - be eliminated at same time as mafia
7 pts - 7 kills
6 pts - 6 kills.
5 pts - 5 kills etc...

granted it would be a pain to develop rubrics for all the possible roles.
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Re: Mafia Tournament

Postby new guy1 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:21 pm

With the available input the community could give, I would say 3-5 people come together and give input on how many points each role could have. The people could be decided by nominations or by vote.
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Re: Mafia Tournament

Postby jgordon1111 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:52 pm

safariguy5 wrote:
jgordon1111 wrote:Then try having the MOD along with 2 other non in game players that have alot of MOD experience decide who gets points,depending on roles and gameplay, You guys know who is floating and who is playing,that along with their respective role no matter what it is,what and how much they contributed. example if they were a VT that during gameplay specifically drew mafia out to kill them instead of a power role.

obverse of this would be someone who wanted to BW lynch everyone that was put forward with no evidence,even a player who is mafia is not that dumb.

By that approach, we open ourselves up to certain player biases. Certainly, the more experienced we are, the chummier we tend to be with other experienced players. It's like the C&A forum, there's a possibility for disconnect with what the community believes should be right and what the mods think is right. I'd prefer a vote of the top 3 or whatever and award points that way because the players of the game have read every post and certainly know where the pivotal moments are.



I understand what your saying SAF,and the reason I put in my statement experienced mods,was to try and get them to be unbiased. the players put forth the players they think were the best,then the MODS award the points.

Inherent flaw in your plan chuck,players would have to be assigned roles in order to ensure points were even. Then you get to the last couple of games you then just deduce who havent had what roles,mafia dies quickly. probably D1
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Re: Mafia Tournament

Postby safariguy5 on Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:50 pm

jgordon1111 wrote:
safariguy5 wrote:
jgordon1111 wrote:Then try having the MOD along with 2 other non in game players that have alot of MOD experience decide who gets points,depending on roles and gameplay, You guys know who is floating and who is playing,that along with their respective role no matter what it is,what and how much they contributed. example if they were a VT that during gameplay specifically drew mafia out to kill them instead of a power role.

obverse of this would be someone who wanted to BW lynch everyone that was put forward with no evidence,even a player who is mafia is not that dumb.

By that approach, we open ourselves up to certain player biases. Certainly, the more experienced we are, the chummier we tend to be with other experienced players. It's like the C&A forum, there's a possibility for disconnect with what the community believes should be right and what the mods think is right. I'd prefer a vote of the top 3 or whatever and award points that way because the players of the game have read every post and certainly know where the pivotal moments are.



I understand what your saying SAF,and the reason I put in my statement experienced mods,was to try and get them to be unbiased. the players put forth the players they think were the best,then the MODS award the points.

Inherent flaw in your plan chuck,players would have to be assigned roles in order to ensure points were even. Then you get to the last couple of games you then just deduce who havent had what roles,mafia dies quickly. probably D1

I'm fine with that idea. Have the players nominate the best players, and then have the mods decide who gets the most points, 2nd most, etc. If people like that system for awarding points, I'm happy with it as well.
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Re: Mafia Tournament

Postby edocsil on Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:52 am

safariguy5 wrote:I'm fine with that idea. Have the players nominate the best players, and then have the mods decide who gets the most points, 2nd most, etc. If people like that system for awarding points, I'm happy with it as well.


Seconded. MVP the top 3, and not necessarily from the winning side. I have seen some brilliant moves lately, that may or not be rewarded with a win.
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Re: Mafia Tournament

Postby aage on Wed Aug 08, 2012 8:51 am

In the third round each game will auto-lynch the player with the highest score so far to prevent him from gaining points (since dead players cannot play). You would have to find a way to avoid that scenario. Giving more points to certain roles in case of a win does not seem fair to me with the possible exception of an SK, which I simply suggest not to include.


I like the suggestion put forward by Saf, but I fear people will look for personal gain in ranking rather than what actually is fair. They're mafia players, after all.
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Re: Mafia Tournament

Postby jak111 on Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:00 am

aage wrote:In the third round each game will auto-lynch the player with the highest score so far to prevent him from gaining points (since dead players cannot play). You would have to find a way to avoid that scenario. Giving more points to certain roles in case of a win does not seem fair to me with the possible exception of an SK, which I simply suggest not to include.


I like the suggestion put forward by Saf, but I fear people will look for personal gain in ranking rather than what actually is fair. They're mafia players, after all.


This is why points would be of secrecy among the mods. The points would only be revealed at the end of the tourny, all people will know is that they got enough to get passed through to the next round.
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Re: Mafia Tournament

Postby LSU Tiger Josh on Wed Aug 08, 2012 1:16 pm

as i suggested to jak when he first opened this have the last 4 or so spots be picked by the mods to fix overlooked great play. if need be i can increase alphabet mzfia to 24 players and mod round 1 by postponing it slightly since i have had several successful games before or even do a civil war type setup if players preferred that
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