[Official] NBC Mafia Town Win MVP=trinicardinal

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Re: [Official] Nightmare Before Christmas Mafia Town Win MVP

Postby safariguy5 on Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:33 pm

pancakemix wrote:Pretty much what happened with me was I didn't want to use any of the provided fakeclaims because (as I have very limited knowledge of the film) I was told they weren't any good. It probably killed me in the end. Or maybe it didn't.

What I was REALLY frustrated about was no one actually looked at my case on dazza to see what I was talking about. I explained twice why I quoted drunkmonkey and no one listened. I ended up stonewalling because

1. I didn't want to explain it again, and
2. RL became a bitch.

My Jack counterclaim fell on similar deaf ears. My vote on MeDeFe should have communicated my meaning well enough. All I got were complaints that I wasn't claiming. I did end up coming out and saying it more directly, but at that point I think people had already made up their minds.

It is with that that I'm actually going to retroactively call town out on the reasoning behind my lynch. The former point, I contended (and still contend) that my quote of drunkmonkey was relevant to my case on dazza and that people weren't actually reading my post. The latter point, you may argue, I was being vague, but subtlety is extremely important. In my mind it wasn't SAFE to outright claim Jack, and only one person was willing to tender that option. Being as quiet as possible on an issue can be important at times. There was a lot of discussion of "breadcrumbing" in this game (I dislike that term, but that's another argument). If you see someone doing that, are you going to ask if they're the cop, or are you going to ask a leading question to get a vague response to interpret to know if you can trust that person?

If you're wondering why I'm saying all of this, I'm really interested in this game not degrading into unsmart, variously-pop-culture-themed mush. If someone from the town would like to humor me with a response, Id much enjoy it. If you're going to tell me I should have said all when I was about to get lynched, see reason #2 above.

My goodness, I gave the Godfather the strongest fakename. And really, I think mafia should have realized after the Day 1 VT lynch that not only were there going to be VT's, but there also would be minor character VT's. I tried to tailor the fake names to the relative usefulness of the mafia characters. The goons got characters who would probably be VT's, the roleblocker got a character who could have been a hider or something, and the godfather got one that would have been a pretty good third party survivor role.
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Re: [Official] Nightmare Before Christmas Mafia Town Win MVP

Postby pancakemix on Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:52 pm

My goodness, I gave the Godfather the strongest fakename. And really, I think mafia should have realized after the Day 1 VT lynch that not only were there going to be VT's, but there also would be minor character VT's. I tried to tailor the fake names to the relative usefulness of the mafia characters. The goons got characters who would probably be VT's, the roleblocker got a character who could have been a hider or something, and the godfather got one that would have been a pretty good third party survivor role.


See, if I knew anything beyond vague conceptual facts about the film I would've known that.
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Re: [Official] Nightmare Before Christmas Mafia Town Win MVP

Postby Rodion on Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:58 pm

safariguy5 wrote:Technically, I can't award a medal to someone who was replaced. That would set a precedent for medal hunting and then deadbeating in the game. I know jim has played before, but this being an Official Game, I have to follow the guidelines.


Does that mean I'm getting 2 medals, then? Or is 1 of the 12 town medals going to be "vacant"?
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Re: [Official] Nightmare Before Christmas Mafia Town Win MVP

Postby strike wolf on Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:02 pm

Rodion wrote:
safariguy5 wrote:Technically, I can't award a medal to someone who was replaced. That would set a precedent for medal hunting and then deadbeating in the game. I know jim has played before, but this being an Official Game, I have to follow the guidelines.


Does that mean I'm getting 2 medals, then? Or is 1 of the 12 town medals going to be "vacant"?


I believe it means one medal will be vacant.
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Re: [Official] Nightmare Before Christmas Mafia Town Win MVP

Postby shieldgenerator7 on Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:24 pm

Wow, I've only been replaced twice that I can remember and both times PCM replaced me and I/he was scum. WoW.

Anyway, Good game everyponyone! That was a hard game, and I had forgotten who was scum when I returned so it was a mystery to me as well :lol:

Sorry saf for the excess of voices from beyond the grave :oops: I just can't contain myself sometimes (ironic isn't it?) I really don't want to be blacklisted or on your bad side.

And about the blue thing: I explained this before: just because he posted a different shade of blue doesn't mean he's not town. He could have clicked the wrong blue. What I posted about it afterwards was a joke. I don't see how that had anythign to do with the case on me/PCM. Town is usually blue, but why does it/ why did it matter that it was a different shade?

Good try, PCM. I really shouldn't have scummarined this game. I was completely going to fakclaim Santa and be like a gifter or something (claiming to have gifted my scum buddies of course). I think that would have tided me over a couple nights, at least until they revealed all my buddies.

This was, in a weird way, why I disappeared. I decided as a tactic for this game I would submarine and try to slip by by not posting much. It didn't work, as soon I was called out for my inactivity and I was struggling for things to post. And then school kicked in and I didn't have much time to keep up with the multiple games I was in. SO yeah, lesson learned: scummarining doesn't work. (not for me at least)

Overall this was a fun game to watch and I think it could have been better if I hadn't had my tactics misaligned. Good game, everyone! Thanks for modding, saf

MVP: probably one of the surviving towns people.
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Re: [Official] Nightmare Before Christmas Mafia Town Win MVP

Postby safariguy5 on Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:29 pm

strike wolf wrote:
Rodion wrote:
safariguy5 wrote:Technically, I can't award a medal to someone who was replaced. That would set a precedent for medal hunting and then deadbeating in the game. I know jim has played before, but this being an Official Game, I have to follow the guidelines.


Does that mean I'm getting 2 medals, then? Or is 1 of the 12 town medals going to be "vacant"?


I believe it means one medal will be vacant.

Yep, one vacant medal.
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Re: [Official] Nightmare Before Christmas Mafia Town Win MVP

Postby Swifte on Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:33 pm

Congrats town! Was disappointed to watch most of this from the sidelines after the unlucky night switch... but perhaps it was for the best, as this was my first game on here and I definitely have a lot of learning to do. Reading along the rest of the way was definitely a good learning experience. Thanks for hosting saf, enjoyed the game very much. I'd put trini MVP with Rodion 2.0 not far behind!

Fastposted by saf :P See, I'm getting the hang of this!
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Re: [Official] Nightmare Before Christmas Mafia Town Win MVP

Postby DoomYoshi on Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:47 am

As the first player to be replaced, I am clearly the MVP.
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Re: [Official] Nightmare Before Christmas Mafia Town Win MVP

Postby MeDeFe on Wed Mar 14, 2012 3:01 am

Rodion, I believe you wanted to explain why you fakeclaimed Town Bomb before.
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Re: [Official] Nightmare Before Christmas Mafia Town Win MVP

Postby dazza2008 on Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:49 am

Awesome. I would vote Trini for MVP.

I thought he was strong throughout the game and he contributed loads all the way through.

Rodion and Chap played very well too. Well Rodi 2. Rodi 1 was not so great with that fakeclaim :lol:
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Re: [Official] Nightmare Before Christmas Mafia Town Win MVP

Postby Leitz on Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:49 am

Well done town! For my first game this was a huge experience and I enjoyed every bit of it! Now that the game is over my case on dazza did seem completely wrong, but hey, that's part of the game I guess.

MVP definitely trinicardinal, I always tend to believe him and our lists mostly matched but his persistence was admirable!
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Re: [Official] Nightmare Before Christmas Mafia Town Win MVP

Postby dazza2008 on Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:22 am

Leitz wrote:Well done town! For my first game this was a huge experience and I enjoyed every bit of it! Now that the game is over my case on dazza did seem completely wrong, but hey, that's part of the game I guess.

MVP definitely trinicardinal, I always tend to believe him and our lists mostly matched but his persistence was admirable!


Oh yeah looks like I was very wrong about you too :oops:
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Re: [Official] Nightmare Before Christmas Mafia Town Win MVP

Postby betiko on Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:39 am

ok a little post game analysis!

First of all, I definitely want to give the MVP to trini. sorry trini if I've been harsh with you sometimes, was just in my role.
I really thought trini was a harmless player during the first half, and scum mates wanted to lynch him and i always thought there were better targets. then on day 3 we were almost sure trini was the bus; and thought that strike was a watcher so we decided to go for strike, also because when he gets you he doesn't let you go like a pitbull biting.

I have to say that the turning point of the game came with jimfinn. He is the one that made the town win. He proposed the massclaim when no one was going on that direction, and from then on a player like trini from his position and his knowledge could make the correct list of scums. Day 4 was actually horrible; we managed to get this far, but with so many claims already done, we had nowhere to hide!
I think that this whole jimfinn/trini thing made us panic. The worse thing is that in his counter claim, mob said the truth about the bus driver being blocked; cause we were sure on night 3 that medefe and trini were the bus and the power role and we blocked trini.
the problem is that the town didn't beleive we could've not blocked the cop!

Also I counter claimed epi because i thought that we needed to start making some collateral damage at that point; trini's list was christal clear and had to bring some doubts.. I wanted to kind of make a town look shady; being chap as I thought is gameplay was quite weird all game, so i decided to clear him.

Unfortunately came rodion 2.0, who brought the whole "epi, protect me". From then, the game was clearly lost. the original plan as to get rid of me on day 5 and to make epi win brownie points. We had to kill rodion, there was no other choice cause we knew he would investigate epi.
Unfortunately, the great thing would've been to have PCM claim and me counter claim on him; and claim VT! I think we would've won by doing that, cause killing the cop wouldn't ve been a priority, PCM being godfather. Also, the claim done by epi had the problem of being a power role that would be easily verified to be false.
Mob was too nervous in his claim, and did a mistake by linking me and PCM to him.
I did the mistake to think an inventor always had the same inventions and didn't know they were flavoured...

Basically, all 4 mafia did a mistake on day 4 in my opinion because we were not ready for the mass claim. Also, it was very complicated because leitz new about medefe; so there was no way to start acusing medefe.

will write mùore later!
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Re: [Official] Nightmare Before Christmas Mafia Town Win MVP

Postby Epitaph1 on Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:00 am

Great game, everyone. I've never been a part of a meltdown like that but great job by the town at the end.

Once the town started making analyses based on process of elimination and the lists consisted of 75% or 100% mafia, I think we panicked. At the time of my fake, I presumed we were only 1 night away from victory, so I thought a backup power claim would have a better chance of surviving during that time frame. Well, we all see how that turned out.

It was bad enough having trini beating the drum on D4, but when Rodion 2.0 was born, we could hear death knocking.
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Re: [Official] Nightmare Before Christmas Mafia Town Win MVP

Postby trinicardinal on Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:27 am

betiko wrote:ok a little post game analysis!

First of all, I definitely want to give the MVP to trini. sorry trini if I've been harsh with you sometimes, was just in my role.
I really thought trini was a harmless player during the first half, and scum mates wanted to lynch him and i always thought there were better targets. then on day 3 we were almost sure trini was the bus; and thought that strike was a watcher so we decided to go for strike, also because when he gets you he doesn't let you go like a pitbull biting.

I have to say that the turning point of the game came with jimfinn. He is the one that made the town win. He proposed the massclaim when no one was going on that direction, and from then on a player like trini from his position and his knowledge could make the correct list of scums. Day 4 was actually horrible; we managed to get this far, but with so many claims already done, we had nowhere to hide!
I think that this whole jimfinn/trini thing made us panic. The worse thing is that in his counter claim, mob said the truth about the bus driver being blocked; cause we were sure on night 3 that medefe and trini were the bus and the power role and we blocked trini.
the problem is that the town didn't beleive we could've not blocked the cop!

Also I counter claimed epi because i thought that we needed to start making some collateral damage at that point; trini's list was christal clear and had to bring some doubts.. I wanted to kind of make a town look shady; being chap as I thought is gameplay was quite weird all game, so i decided to clear him.

Unfortunately came rodion 2.0, who brought the whole "epi, protect me". From then, the game was clearly lost. the original plan as to get rid of me on day 5 and to make epi win brownie points. We had to kill rodion, there was no other choice cause we knew he would investigate epi.
Unfortunately, the great thing would've been to have PCM claim and me counter claim on him; and claim VT! I think we would've won by doing that, cause killing the cop wouldn't ve been a priority, PCM being godfather. Also, the claim done by epi had the problem of being a power role that would be easily verified to be false.
Mob was too nervous in his claim, and did a mistake by linking me and PCM to him.
I did the mistake to think an inventor always had the same inventions and didn't know they were flavoured...

Basically, all 4 mafia did a mistake on day 4 in my opinion because we were not ready for the mass claim. Also, it was very complicated because leitz new about medefe; so there was no way to start acusing medefe.

will write mùore later!


I understand fully betiko and I didn't take anything personal so there are no hard feelings. Interestingly enough by D4 I was pretty sure that MeDeFe was Jack ... I had been considering claiming since D3 with an effort to bring out that knowledge and agonised over it into D4. I finally made the decision to claim to avoid a full mass claim just in case mafia had not figured out who Jack was (very remote chance but still) and I also could not take the chance of MeDeFe being speed lynched. It helped that I was absolutely sure about MeDeFe being town. In many ways while my bus got Swifte killed it also saved town from losing 2 townies early on and gave me the information needed for my claim and gave me the certainty about a lot of stuff.

As it turns out my scum list when I claimed was 100% accurate and I think that got mafia in a panic and helped a lot with them not claiming so well (I would agree that all 4 made mistakes but then so did a lot of town, myself included). There are so many factors that came into play in this game that its hard for me to point to any particular one and say that was the game winner. Town made a great effort especially coming down to the end. This was an exhausting game especially for my 4th completed mafia game ever and I learned loads in this one. Thanks all for a great game.
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Re: [Official] Nightmare Before Christmas Mafia Town Win MVP

Postby pancakemix on Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:39 am

Seeing all our names on a list didn't make me panic. MoB's counterclaim (more the way he went about it) was more likely to induce panic.

Betiko, are you suggesting I also claim Igor? Because that would have ended comically.
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Re: [Official] Nightmare Before Christmas Mafia Town Win MVP

Postby trinicardinal on Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:00 am

pancakemix wrote:Seeing all our names on a list didn't make me panic. MoB's counterclaim (more the way he went about it) was more likely to induce panic.

Betiko, are you suggesting I also claim Igor? Because that would have ended comically.


lol... that it would.

@ SG7 - Well i don't need the premium and he has had some hard times recently and cannot afford to purchase premium at this time. Its nice if he can benefit then.
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Re: [Official] Nightmare Before Christmas Mafia Town Win MVP

Postby chapcrap on Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:02 am

If trini gets the MVP, which I don't have a problem with, he should be able to transfer the premium to whoever he sees fit.

This was a good game. I was frustrated that I didn't know as much as others because of having no night actions and only being able to go off of scum tells.
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Re: [Official] Nightmare Before Christmas Mafia Town Win MVP

Postby betiko on Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:07 am

pancakemix wrote:Seeing all our names on a list didn't make me panic. MoB's counterclaim (more the way he went about it) was more likely to induce panic.

Betiko, are you suggesting I also claim Igor? Because that would have ended comically.


no you didn't understand. I meant that you should've claimed earlier than epi VT, and I would ve counterclaimed you, whatever it was. then look scummier than you to get lynched; and with your godfather ability you would've been 99% cleared IMO. of course I'm not talking about 3 igor claims!
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Re: [Official] Nightmare Before Christmas Mafia Town Win MVP

Postby drunkmonkey on Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:09 am

Way to go, town! =D>
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Re: [Official] Nightmare Before Christmas Mafia Town Win MVP

Postby betiko on Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:18 am

chapcrap wrote:If trini gets the MVP, which I don't have a problem with, he should be able to transfer the premium to whoever he sees fit.

This was a good game. I was frustrated that I didn't know as much as others because of having no night actions and only being able to go off of scum tells.


well this is question is quite seen on a scum perspective; but I really think you voted way too quick on day 5, as if you didn't calculate that it was a hammer vote, cause obviously dazza was going to vote the same. you didn't even wait for counter arguments... also at some point you voted medefe and didn't let go (for little activity..), if someone else had followed you we had our secret "jellybean" operation to speedlych and it would've been a victory.
I also think you were a bit too gut feeling driven vs rodion v1.0. it was great to see it from a scum perspective, but i was really wondering what the hell you were doing with no proofs... god that day2 was long and painfull!

anyway, I quite enjoyed this, as a first experience and definitely learned a lot for next time. just think that 5 month is too long... just think that there should be tighter deadlines, like 2 weeks per day, would avoid some endless discutions like day 2.
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Re: [Official] Nightmare Before Christmas Mafia Town Win MVP

Postby chapcrap on Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:41 pm

betiko wrote:
chapcrap wrote:If trini gets the MVP, which I don't have a problem with, he should be able to transfer the premium to whoever he sees fit.

This was a good game. I was frustrated that I didn't know as much as others because of having no night actions and only being able to go off of scum tells.


well this is question is quite seen on a scum perspective; but I really think you voted way too quick on day 5, as if you didn't calculate that it was a hammer vote, cause obviously dazza was going to vote the same. you didn't even wait for counter arguments... also at some point you voted medefe and didn't let go (for little activity..), if someone else had followed you we had our secret "jellybean" operation to speedlych and it would've been a victory.
I also think you were a bit too gut feeling driven vs rodion v1.0. it was great to see it from a scum perspective, but i was really wondering what the hell you were doing with no proofs... god that day2 was long and painfull!

anyway, I quite enjoyed this, as a first experience and definitely learned a lot for next time. just think that 5 month is too long... just think that there should be tighter deadlines, like 2 weeks per day, would avoid some endless discutions like day 2.

Yes, well there was nothing else much to go on on Day 2 and Rodion was acting fishy. I was not the only town to think so.

And perhaps I should have let it go with MeDeFe, but he was being inactive the whole time. Even after we found out that he was town.

You think I voted too quickly on Day 5? That was when we lynched Epi. There was nothing else going on and he had nothing that he could say. And you voted before me... What was your secret jellybean operation? To help me lynch a scummate?

And I agree about the deadlines. If there were 2 week deadlines, the game would have probably been over in about half the time.
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Re: [Official] Nightmare Before Christmas Mafia Town Win MVP

Postby Swifte on Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:07 pm

chapcrap wrote:And I agree about the deadlines. If there were 2 week deadlines, the game would have probably been over in about half the time.


But then it might have only been half the fun!

The fake bomb dragged things to a crawl at that point as I recall.
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Re: [Official] Nightmare Before Christmas Mafia Town Win MVP

Postby Rodion on Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:18 pm

MeDeFe wrote:Rodion, I believe you wanted to explain why you fakeclaimed Town Bomb before.


Did I want? :lol:

The primary reason is I wanted to be alive around the massclaim/endgame period so I could help find scum, so with the bomb claim I thought I could scare people into not lynching me (or into forcing a claim out of the poor bastard that would be scheduled to hammer me and possibly identify a fake, thus outright lynching him instead). Sucks that it didn't work, but enter the secondary reason: getting more discussion in the table so we could clear/implicate more players before N2 arrived. For instance, I think Chap volunteering for the hammer earned him major town cred, which proved to be useful later on (it sucks that mafia got to know Strike was a power role, but he had it coming for pushing my bandwagon! ;) ).


betiko wrote:also at some point you voted medefe and didn't let go (for little activity..), if someone else had followed you we had our secret "jellybean" operation to speedlych and it would've been a victory.



Can you tell us more about this operation? Had you previously established a daily time for you all to be online in order to make that happen?
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Re: [Official] Nightmare Before Christmas Mafia Town Win MVP

Postby Epitaph1 on Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:24 pm

Yeah, pretty much. Our code was "jellybean ______" to get everyone online at a certain time and get a speed lynch. We just couldn't get the ball rolling on a townie to even try the operation. Oh well. I'm sure the town would have been completely confused if one of us mentioned jellybeans in the middle of an argument.
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