H.E. Mafia, Game Over, Town Prevails. [archive plox]

[spiesr]

Ill tell you, you have my mason partner on the wrong list.

So we have several unknowns with one of them being new guy's mason buddy. Unless new guy is lying.

My my analysis seems to indicate that everywhere is the only one who could reasonably be the other mason at this point in time.

Don't think so. New guy is pretty much saying he's one of the four.

He certainly seems to have said that his partner is not among the four...

[soundman]

Ill tell you, you have my mason partner on the wrong list.

So we have several unknowns with one of them being new guy's mason buddy. Unless new guy is lying.

My my analysis seems to indicate that everywhere is the only one who could reasonably be the other mason at this point in time.

Don't think so. New guy is pretty much saying he's one of the four.

He certainly seems to have said that his partner is not among the four...

I took it to mean out of my list of four possible mafia...

[everywhere116]

I would alter the unknown list in the following ways:

jak111 – (Claim VT)
dazza2008 – (Claim VT)
Spiesr
jonty125
Victor Sullivan
DoomYoshi

VT claims are inherently untestable, with the exception of a cop investigation, or disproven with a watcher/tracker, etc. We still can't be sure that either of them are telling the truth.

Personally, I don't think jak is. After reading through these last few pages with enough time....and sleep....it seems to me that jak was fighting out of desperation. His arguments aren't very good, but were beautifully dismantled by sound and Doom, and I won't retread that water. I did find this, though, in his OMGUS post to jonty.

But here's my main concern Jonty, you're acting like there's only 1 mafia left, how are you so certain? Just because I say I feel there may only be 1 left doesn't mean I'm right.
This being said, my vote and FoS now land on Jonty who seems to skim things to his own liking and be hypocritical about assuming things when he himself just assumed there was only one mafia left by saying what I highlighted in blue in his quote...
Vote Jonty

Sound commented on this portion, but missed something. Jonty never acted like he knew that there was 1 mafia left. He was paraphrasing you. You extrapolated his comment and gave it meaning that simply wasn't there. That reeks of desperation. Also, you accused him of skimming and yet you said that the wrong mafia member was the hider. Irony much?

Vote jak

[new guy1]

Oh the irony in soundman's post.

[DoomYoshi]

Oh the irony in soundman's post.

Please don't elaborate any further unless you are willing to compromise your partner's position. You have caused enough confusion already.

[jak111]

Meh, I believe Dazza's claim. So I'd keep the list down to

Spiesr
Jonty125
Victor Sullivan
Doom Yoshi

If I take this as the only choices left I'll cut it down in a second. But I'd like to also take a second here to ask where everywhere claimed at? When was he targeted? The only blocks/saves I remember from what MoB said was me and Sound he protected. Other than that I do not recall him mentioning everywhere at all?

So I'd actually ADD everywhere to the list making it 5. But before I repost the list with edited personal list, I'd actually take Doom off (This is by no means of facts, but the feeling that he's safe, and that he has not been scummy and have been shooting for the kills all the time)

So the list would look something like this now.

Spiesr
Jonty125
Victor Sullivan
Everywhere116

But I know how you're all hard asses on facts. So let me go over Mafia lynches...

Day 2
safariguy5: 8 (sound, newguy, dazza, jak, Doom, jonty, chap, spiesr)

Day 3
Some7hingCLEVER: 7 (soundman, chapcrap, everywhere, strike, new guy, Doom, Victor)

Going from this information the only people who are alive who DIDN'T vote for these 2 are.
MoB (cleared because he is doc)
Dazza who didn't vote for CLEVER
Jak111 who didn't vote for CLEVER (I was like 3 mins late v.v)
Spiesr who didn't vote for CLEVER
Everywhere who didn't vote for Saf
Victor who didn't vote for Saf
And that's pretty much it..

Though going to looking through WHEN you guys voted.
Jonty ONLY votes for Saf and this is after everyone agrees Soundman's counterclaim so he feels that there is pressure to lynch, and he didn't wish to look scummy.
Spiesr who only hammered Saf long after it was clear he was a goner.
Everywhere only voted for CLEVER.
Victor only voted for CLEVER when it was clear he was about to die.

So two out of 3 of them only did one vote, and that was to hammer the mafia member.. Scummy? Everywhere's vote is NOT scummy, but where does he get the cleared from? I checked the last few pages and unless the post is invisible to me he was NOT protected by the doc, Soundman was. As for jonty, well my opinion stays for out little fight. But we'll see.

For anyone who still cares for my opinion. Everywhere can be wiped off my list with a simple quote (and page number of that quote) of him being protected/cleared. New guy, he can clear someone else with his mason claim. If it's someone other than everywhere and everywhere gets cleared with the option I stated. It'd leave 2 suspects left. If there truly is a cop, once we get down to 2-3 people hopefully he can investigate and clear one more?

Also <.< >.> I need to message tail. I feel left out with all these roles. Like people are paired up one and one in all these death scenes like there's 2-3 people from the same show, event, etc. So perhaps Dazza can say what his name is so I don't feel so left out? XD

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Vote Count

MoB Deadly:
dazza2008:
spiesr:
everywhere116:
jonty125: 2 (spiesr, jak)
Victor Sullivan:
new guy1:
soundman:
Doom Yoshi:
jak111: 3 (Doom, jonty, everywhere)
NL:

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch.

-Tails

[DoomYoshi]

Wow. That was a well researched post jak. Nobody can accuse you of not contributing now.

FOS jonty. There is a decent case there and depending on what happens to jak, I would be interested in pursuing that further. Also, it is interesting that everywhere became cleared. I do think that either dazza or everywhere is the mason partner though.

Victor and MoB have both been very quiet. So far, MoB pointed out that jak is not clear. Considering that jak cleared himself based on MoB's protection (not true) that doesn't help his case.

Victor only pointed out the flaw in jak's line of argument.

Dazza also has agreed that jak is the best case.

So, adding the 2 quiet ones, the real town support for lynching jak is probably around 60%.

Now, I realize it would be impossible for jak to defend himself at this point. Basically, only WIFOM would serve as defense. This is a position I strongly sympathize with.

So it is a question of cost and benefit. If jak is a VT, then we lose a VT, but we do have some peace of mind. Still a good chance for jak to win, as I think we pretty much have this one in the bag. Of course, if he is mafia, or third party, we need another direction to go. I am not quite yet ready to go after jonty, I will have to do some looking around first.

Thoughts?

(Particularly MoB and Victor).

[spiesr]

If I take this as the only choices left I'll cut it down in a second. But I'd like to also take a second here to ask where everywhere claimed at? When was he targeted? The only blocks/saves I remember from what MoB said was me and Sound he protected. Other than that I do not recall him mentioning everywhere at all?

The basis for everywhere not considered sort of clear appears to be that he was Soundman's night 3 target. Soundman is the roleblocker. The night scene suggests that the mafia attempted to kill someone, but target was saved by the doctor. If everywhere was roleblocked then he couldn't have shot Soundman. (Who is presumed to be the target since Mob used his protection on him) Upon further inspection, this isn't as solid of a clear as some might have thought.
1. If there is more than 1 mafia alive then it of course doesn't mean anything. Currently the general consensus seems to be that there is only one remaining scum, but we can't know for sure.
2. While the flavor scene would seem to indicate otherwise, I don't think we can completely rule out the possibility that Chapcrap is the one who performed the mafia's kill action last night. The scene flavor says he didn't but can we rely on that being a perfect reproduction of the actual night events?

That said, I don't think everywhere is scum. Primarily becuase I think I know what his role is. Should he claim and confirm it then I can move him to my "probably town" pile.

[dazza2008]

I agree that lynching Jak would be best now. If he is town then I think we still have this one. I think we need to clear up what he is now though.

I also don't get where everywhere got cleared. What did I miss? I have read every post and skimmed back through but I can't see it.

Jak asked my name. Joe Pesci.

[DoomYoshi]

I agree that lynching Jak would be best now. If he is town then I think we still have this one. I think we need to clear up what he is now though.

I also don't get where everywhere got cleared. What did I miss? I have read every post and skimmed back through but I can't see it.

Jak asked my name. Joe Pesci.

Umm... as in Joe Pesci the guy who got famous playing Mobsters and is now a Jazz singer? You are claiming mafia?

[dazza2008]

I agree that lynching Jak would be best now. If he is town then I think we still have this one. I think we need to clear up what he is now though.

I also don't get where everywhere got cleared. What did I miss? I have read every post and skimmed back through but I can't see it.

Jak asked my name. Joe Pesci.

Umm... as in Joe Pesci the guy who got famous playing Mobsters and is now a Jazz singer? You are claiming mafia?

No I claimed Vanilla Townie.

[jak111]

If I take this as the only choices left I'll cut it down in a second. But I'd like to also take a second here to ask where everywhere claimed at? When was he targeted? The only blocks/saves I remember from what MoB said was me and Sound he protected. Other than that I do not recall him mentioning everywhere at all?

The basis for everywhere not considered sort of clear appears to be that he was Soundman's night 3 target. Soundman is the roleblocker. The night scene suggests that the mafia attempted to kill someone, but target was saved by the doctor. If everywhere was roleblocked then he couldn't have shot Soundman. (Who is presumed to be the target since Mob used his protection on him) Upon further inspection, this isn't as solid of a clear as some might have thought.
1. If there is more than 1 mafia alive then it of course doesn't mean anything. Currently the general consensus seems to be that there is only one remaining scum, but we can't know for sure.
2. While the flavor scene would seem to indicate otherwise, I don't think we can completely rule out the possibility that Chapcrap is the one who performed the mafia's kill action last night. The scene flavor says he didn't but can we rely on that being a perfect reproduction of the actual night events?

That said, I don't think everywhere is scum. Primarily becuase I think I know what his role is. Should he claim and confirm it then I can move him to my "probably town" pile.

All I'm asking is someone prove to me he's safe.. Everyone's going off the scene like it's fact. A couple of us in Everywhere's mafia game should know that the scenes don't really give away any night action. So he is by no way cleared at THIS moment. That being said for your "if there's more than 1 mafia" comment I fully agree with that. Who's to say there isn't 2 more? Yes the scene mentions one guy running away. But if another mafia is somewhere else of course the scene won't mention so.

So now with the vote count posted finally I can see. Spiesr is still not clear but he doesn't seem to be working with anyone. But for the people voting me, only one of them I've cleared off my own list. Perhaps the other two are working together? (More wifom I know but there's like no one actually defending me at all, so I gotta make do with what I got).

So again going off my FEELINGS I'd cross Spiesr actually off my list, though I will not because I haven't seen anything besides feel that he'd not be scum. Hmm, so can New Guy not mention WHAT role he's masoned with but whom? (also more wifom here.. get ready for it... If there's two mafia left perhaps New guy is claiming Mason so he can clear him and his buddy? Or he isn't saying who because he isn't a real mason?) No one has popped up and said their in league with New Guy, so his Mason story is somewhat not believe-able.

Thus widening my list to...

Spiesr
Everywhere116
Jonty125
Victor Sullivan
New Guy1

I know you guys hate seeing a list get bigger from what it was. But unless him and someone else can say they are masoned together I don't FULLY buy it. Also, Everywhere can still be cleared, but I want to hear it from MoB that HE picked Everywhere to save.. Because let me get the quote I'm thinking of...

[quote="TA1LGUNN3R"

Elsewhere, a bit later:

A shot rang out, striking one of the townspeople in the thorax, near the heart. Assuming his target's death, the assailant made off before he could be identified. As luck would have it, the bullet missed any organs and the doctor was near by. The victim would not die tonight.

I saved Soundmans life.[/quote]

Check the VERY first post of page 58. MoB says himself that he saved Soundman's life. NOT Everywhere's. So where did Everywhere get saved at, hmm?

[spiesr]

Check the VERY first post of page 58. MoB says himself that he saved Soundman's life. NOT Everywhere's. So where did Everywhere get saved at, hmm?

Did you not read/understand my post? Everywhere was not pseudo "cleared" by being saved. It was by being role-blocked on the night where the kill still appears to have happened.

Anways, I blocked everywhere last night.

On page 58.

[jak111]

Check the VERY first post of page 58. MoB says himself that he saved Soundman's life. NOT Everywhere's. So where did Everywhere get saved at, hmm?

Did you not read/understand my post? Everywhere was not pseudo "cleared" by being saved. It was by being role-blocked on the night where the kill still appears to have happened.

Anways, I blocked everywhere last night.

On page 58.

So we're assuming now that just because someone's role-blocked a SCENE can't say they shot their gun? That's a poor excuse for a clearance. A VERY poor one. (and yes I did read it before I just didn't address it because it wasn't a reason for me to clear everywhere).

For those who are thinking losing a VT isn't bad, well this VT is contributing more than "might be power-roles" are at the moment. Some aren't even contributing. So if I die today then make sure to check back here for something fishy. It'd make sense for a mafia to want to get rid of any talkers. It'd be nice if we do have a cop/investigator if he could CONFIRM a few roles tomorrow >.<. (especially some of the ones we have on the possible Mafia list).

[everywhere116]

Of course, if he [jak] is mafia, or third party, we need another direction to go. I am not quite yet ready to go after jonty, I will have to do some looking around first.

Wait, what? If he is mafia, doesn't that mean we win if we lynch him?

jak fastpost

[jak111]

Of course, if he [jak] is mafia, or third party, we need another direction to go. I am not quite yet ready to go after jonty, I will have to do some looking around first.

Wait, what? If he is mafia, doesn't that mean we win if we lynch him?

jak fastpost

You once again are assuming there's only 1 left. Damn, I guess we might as well assume it's me since that's the way everyone seems to be headed? It won't get us very far mind you. Though everywhere, do you want to claim a mason or something linked to new guy and him clear you back to clear you both? Or are you gonna keep going AROUND that subject?

[jak111]

Sorry for double posting here, but should these others not be pressured at all? All of you want to go with me because I'm safe if I'm just a VT, well what are these 5? Should we not make them claim and see if they are counter claimed at this point? How many of them are VT's (and still scummy), or power roles that could contribute more than what they are to this argument. Because ONE of them must know something we don't?

[new guy1]

Sorry for double posting here, but should these others not be pressured at all? All of you want to go with me because I'm safe if I'm just a VT, well what are these 5? Should we not make them claim and see if they are counter claimed at this point? How many of them are VT's (and still scummy), or power roles that could contribute more than what they are to this argument. Because ONE of them must know something we don't?

Actually my reason for not posting a mason partner was made clear. I do not wish to give the mafia one less person to kill since our only power is to talk at night. I would, however, like to refer to Day two. Does nobody remember ghostly's list of his guesses of scum? Let me refresh it:

Chapcrap- nailed
Safari- nailed
CLEVER- nailed
FOS'ed Strike- nailed
Doomyoshi- not yet confirmed

For some reason, I believe he saw things we didnt notice, and I wish he was here to confirm his notes and such, but seriously, he nailed 3, and was on to a 4th, why not question doomyoshi? Just saying.

[Victor Sullivan]

It's not called for per se, but it could clear things up a bit more: I'm Walter Sobchack, Town Hammah Slammah. Basically, I have to vote for anyone put at L-1. I'm essentially a Vanilla Townie with a sprig of cilantro.

Moving on. I think jak's claim can be believed on the basis that his actions seem to be in line with a Vanilla Townie (i.e. aggressive and careless). In that regard, I'm tempted to vote jonty.

-Sully

[jak111]

I doubt Ghostly would've made all his guesses right. So I doubt Doom is mafia just on personal thoughts and for why I stated in one of my previous posts on the last page.

As for you not claiming. Right now you'd narrow the list to THREE suspects. There's a lot WE could do there, whether it be pressure one and make him squawk every little thing he knows so far, or get one to claim and present the info they know. Which would let us win within the next 1-2 days... You not claiming your partner is pretty much holding us back from narrowing the list and sounds a bit scummy at this point in the game.

[jak111]

It's not called for per se, but it could clear things up a bit more: I'm Walter Sobchack, Town Hammah Slammah. Basically, I have to vote for anyone put at L-1. I'm essentially a Vanilla Townie with a sprig of cilantro.

Moving on. I think jak's claim can be believed on the basis that his actions seem to be in line with a Vanilla Townie (i.e. aggressive and careless). In that regard, I'm tempted to vote jonty.

-Sully

This is an... interesting role.. Can anyone say that there is a role that's even close to like this description Sully gives?

[new guy1]

I doubt Ghostly would've made all his guesses right. So I doubt Doom is mafia just on personal thoughts and for why I stated in one of my previous posts on the last page.

As for you not claiming. Right now you'd narrow the list to THREE suspects. There's a lot WE could do there, whether it be pressure one and make him squawk every little thing he knows so far, or get one to claim and present the info they know. Which would let us win within the next 1-2 days... You not claiming your partner is pretty much holding us back from narrowing the list and sounds a bit scummy at this point in the game.

Well Ill tell you what, if my partner wishes to come out and say he is my partner, he can. Until then, I guess you guys are in the dark. And I guess if that means I have to die to prove his role thats fine with me...

[jak111]

I doubt Ghostly would've made all his guesses right. So I doubt Doom is mafia just on personal thoughts and for why I stated in one of my previous posts on the last page.

As for you not claiming. Right now you'd narrow the list to THREE suspects. There's a lot WE could do there, whether it be pressure one and make him squawk every little thing he knows so far, or get one to claim and present the info they know. Which would let us win within the next 1-2 days... You not claiming your partner is pretty much holding us back from narrowing the list and sounds a bit scummy at this point in the game.

Well Ill tell you what, if my partner wishes to come out and say he is my partner, he can. Until then, I guess you guys are in the dark. And I guess if that means I have to die to prove his role thats fine with me...

No one said you have to die. I'm just saying it sounds fishy with no one else agreeing to being connected to you in any way shape or forum if you're mason. Don't take it as a personal attack, but it's a role that can easily be proved.

[DoomYoshi]

Of course, if he [jak] is mafia, or third party, we need another direction to go. I am not quite yet ready to go after jonty, I will have to do some looking around first.

Wait, what? If he is mafia, doesn't that mean we win if we lynch him?

jak fastpost

Yea, I'm not sure what I did there. Anyways, you still get the point that we need to consider costs and benefits lol.