safariguy5 wrote:To perhaps steer this discussion a bit more into the realm of mafia and less on grammar, I'm a bit curious as to why Vio didn't look up her role?
I never look anything up. I don't care. This is actually one reason why I tend to avoid theme based games. I totally suck at them, especially when I can't follow the flavor/history/details. I did want to participate in this one because I like edoc as a mod, and I wanted to participate in the entire series. But normally, I join the "typical" games, where outside reasoning doesn't come into play. Because honestly, I don't really feel that it should. Just not my style.
safariguy5 wrote:And if you yourself do not take the time to check the flavor of your role, then when someone else cites outside sources, surely it wouldn't hurt to at least affirm or deny the information provided by someone else.
The thing is that any information does not change my alignment. According to my role pm, I am either town or mafia or third faction, or whatever. No outside source is going to change the role that I was given.
Whatever Rodion found out wiki did not change the fact that I was a saint and alive. Like I said, outside sources can throw you off if the games isn't exactly going by those outsides sources.
In the games I have modded in the past, my character roles have sometimes been a direct contradiction of "outside sources." I think Clue Mafia was a great example of this. For example, someone who was a villain in the movie might have been Town in the game. Someone who was good in the book, might have been Mafia in the game. A NRPC (non-role playing character) might have a large role in the game, or a main character might be an NRPC in the game. I like to mix things up.
safariguy5 wrote:Part of this has to do with find out fakeclaims. We know that mafia may have to fakeclaim from time to time, and if roleflavor does not support the claim well, then that may be a hint that the person is faking.
I agree that research can be useful with fakeclaims, and that is the only time that I am remotely interested in looking at outside sources. I think because I was town and because I knew I was town, I wasn't too concerned with fakeclaims. I'm usually only concerned with fakeclaims when I'm mafia.
I just don't tend to use outside information to determine who is scummy or not. I base it on their actions within the game. To be honest, I think that is the best and most fair way. This might be why some people criticize too much meta-gaming.
safariguy5 wrote:I have to say that I didn't initially see too much with Vio's claim, but the defensive nature of her response and apparent complete unwillingness to accept any outside attempts at clarification made me think twice.
If I know my role, then I know it. Period. I don't care what Rodion or Wiki says. Wiki could say, hypothetically, that Saint Catherine was really some twisted demon. However, it doesn't change that my role pm said living saint. If a situation like that occurred, what could I possibly say in defense? I had to defend against something that wiki said when my role pm says something different? How is that even fair?
safariguy5 wrote:If it weren't for the earlier innocent result and the fact that I thought we had better leads, I might have believed she was faking.
That's how mafia goes sometimes. It is not the first time that I've been 100% honest about my claim but have still not been believed. I've been lynched as town before and I've been lynched as mafia before, so I know it happens. All I can do is try my best, but I can't control if I will always be 100% believed. I was honest with the claim, but if it came across as scummy- oh well. I can't say much about that. It appears that if I had lied, then I might have been better believed. However, it is my impression that very few really actually thought I was scum at the end of the game.
safariguy5 wrote:So in conclusion Vio, I think that your initial claim may have been a poor choice of wording
I really don't get what you think I should have said differently. I think my choice of words were straight to the point, as they should have been. "Saint, alive, doctor..." How else could I have claimed?
safariguy5 wrote:but you compounded the issue by the subsequent defense and failure to do a little research into your own role to provide some substance/rationale.
If I believe something to be true, I will defend it to death. I won't give in just because it doesn't "sound right," to someone else. Truth is truth. I need to have a really good reason to do research, as I prefer to go by the information provided within the context of the game. I don't always know what the mod had in mind, so it's all speculation. Also, as I stated above, if wiki or another outside source contradicts what my role pm said, then there is really nothing I can say. I'm just not that creative about coming up with "excuses." I won't even try (unless I'm scum). Perhaps that is my mafia shortcoming, but I am just not creative. Thus, I take a much simpler approach to my games.