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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D3 23/25

Postby aage on Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:15 am

chapcrap wrote:
aage wrote:Personally I believe that Jak was the one casting the vote, therefore we should assume Jak's alignment is what matters.

Secondly, Jak, you struck VioIet off the list immediately. Why?

No, jak's alignment doesn't really matter. What matters is whether both votes count for him or one counts for VS. Either way, jak's alignment doesn't matter. All that matters is whether or not we need to include VS in the list. My inclination is no because he isn't the one who voted.

Yeah, that is what I said. And because of that we shouldn't care about VS's alignment, but Jak's. If he is scum that would mean he casted 2 of those 4 votes... or at least, that's what I assumed. You never said whether 4 votes or 4 players on the last lynch were anti-town.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D3 23/25

Postby chapcrap on Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:31 am

aage wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
aage wrote:Personally I believe that Jak was the one casting the vote, therefore we should assume Jak's alignment is what matters.

Secondly, Jak, you struck VioIet off the list immediately. Why?

No, jak's alignment doesn't really matter. What matters is whether both votes count for him or one counts for VS. Either way, jak's alignment doesn't matter. All that matters is whether or not we need to include VS in the list. My inclination is no because he isn't the one who voted.

Yeah, that is what I said. And because of that we shouldn't care about VS's alignment, but Jak's. If he is scum that would mean he casted 2 of those 4 votes... or at least, that's what I assumed. You never said whether 4 votes or 4 players on the last lynch were anti-town.

Yes I did. I specifically addressed that. Skimmer.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D3 23/25

Postby aage on Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:06 pm

chapcrap wrote:
aage wrote:
chapcrap wrote:
aage wrote:Personally I believe that Jak was the one casting the vote, therefore we should assume Jak's alignment is what matters.

Secondly, Jak, you struck VioIet off the list immediately. Why?

No, jak's alignment doesn't really matter. What matters is whether both votes count for him or one counts for VS. Either way, jak's alignment doesn't matter. All that matters is whether or not we need to include VS in the list. My inclination is no because he isn't the one who voted.

Yeah, that is what I said. And because of that we shouldn't care about VS's alignment, but Jak's. If he is scum that would mean he casted 2 of those 4 votes... or at least, that's what I assumed. You never said whether 4 votes or 4 players on the last lynch were anti-town.

Yes I did. I specifically addressed that. Skimmer.

Sorry, I largely ignored the part that wasn't addressed to me. You're right, and I agree. Still, weird response from edoc. Did you ask a question?
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D3 23/25

Postby jak111 on Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:41 pm

aage wrote:I have two remarks.

Personally I believe that Jak was the one casting the vote, therefore we should assume Jak's alignment is what matters.

Secondly, Jak, you struck VioIet off the list immediately. Why?


Because of what she said, I can only assume she has a near same pm as I for win condition, etc. I didn't mention what it said when she said it and she was dead on with a few things changed as to not copy role pm. So hence, she is more cleared in my mind for now.

chapcrap wrote:All that matters is whether or not we need to include VS in the list. My inclination is no because he isn't the one who voted.


This is my train of thought as well, I believe Victor's vote whether he's non town or not would not show up because I used his vote.

Very little going on since I last posted, but I will address JG, I'm busy, I spend the time I got posting or sending in actions if it's night time. I was looking at the wrong list (multiple tabs with two games open) and sent in the wrong name without thinking later about it until the day started and I was told he wasn't in the game so I would not receive his vote.

Then you ask why I take myself off of it? Why not? I know I am clear to myself and if I were anti town I wouldn't be as open as I've been so far, you've played with me long enough to know that.

The biggest worry I have at the moment is Chap's results being tampered with or being flawed in some way. However it seems like a reasonably balanced role that is only effective with multiple results (like trying to narrow down who is scum).

If we have a protection role, I suggest they be on Chap and we go for a lynch today. It will either FORCE scum to group up again or start weeding out people. For example.

We narrowed it down to 10 people (9 for my gut feeling), 4 of which are non town in the lynch. Now tomorrow we get to find out how many either stayed or retracted. For example, say tomorrow we find only 2 non town in the lynch with roughly the same people on the list. We can effectively then conclude that two of the people NOT in the lynch that was in the lynch D2 are in face scum. Now, if they work together and try to have 4 in it again, we can start semi-clearing town off as they are not on the lynch and not part of the four non town.

Either way, we either get the few stragglers trying to avoid it, or the group huddled together trying to avoid being found as a straggler. Interesting eh? ;)
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D3 23/25

Postby chapcrap on Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:07 pm

aage wrote:Sorry, I largely ignored the part that wasn't addressed to me. You're right, and I agree. Still, weird response from edoc. Did you ask a question?

I PM'ed him saying that I needed a vote count shown for my role. He made a post about not receiving everyone's night action, so I PM'ed him again to make sure he knew that I wanted to know. We exchanged a couple of PMs about it, because he was explaining his method for modding a little and why he didn't tell me earlier. Then his last PM came with the response' "The answer is 4."
jak111 wrote:If we have a protection role, I suggest they be on Chap and we go for a lynch today. It will either FORCE scum to group up again or start weeding out people. For example.

Eh. I'm not sure my role is valuable enough for protecting. Either way, we go over things like this every game. Doctor, jailer, whoever, do not tell the scum what your plan is. That gives them an advantage.

jak111 wrote:We narrowed it down to 10 people (9 for my gut feeling), 4 of which are non town in the lynch. Now tomorrow we get to find out how many either stayed or retracted. For example, say tomorrow we find only 2 non town in the lynch with roughly the same people on the list. We can effectively then conclude that two of the people NOT in the lynch that was in the lynch D2 are in face scum. Now, if they work together and try to have 4 in it again, we can start semi-clearing town off as they are not on the lynch and not part of the four non town.

Either way, we either get the few stragglers trying to avoid it, or the group huddled together trying to avoid being found as a straggler. Interesting eh? ;)

I think we have it narrowed to 11, not 9 or 10. You keep removing yourself and Vio. I don't think the rest of us can feel that way right now. Perhaps pressuring the people on the lynch would bring more evidence for us.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D3 23/25

Postby jak111 on Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:16 pm

chapcrap wrote:I think we have it narrowed to 11, not 9 or 10. You keep removing yourself and Vio. I don't think the rest of us can feel that way right now. Perhaps pressuring the people on the lynch would bring more evidence for us.


Put it this way, I'm as clear as anyone can get unless investigated. My role is proven, I'm open to town, and I'm trying to narrow down the list so it doesn't look like we have to FOS half the players in the game.

Though enough on that for now, if you're up to it I think we should try to create a pressuring method. Pick 2 players, pressure both for a claim, (and at this point with 4 non town in that list of players a claim is pretty much mandatory if they wish to not be lynched). Get a couple of claims and start weeding out counter claims, investigations, etc.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D3 23/25

Postby / on Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:41 pm

Sorry that I've been missing.
That role sounds like a godsend to have late game, I'm trying to think about the solutions to one of those classic coin weighing games where you try to use the scale as few times as possible to find the fake...
Unfortunately I'm running on empty here tonight.
We should probably fix who should and shouldn't be on each day's bandwagon from now on, so let's try to work it out while we decide on a target.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D3 23/25

Postby vodean on Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:48 pm

jak111 wrote:
chapcrap wrote:I think we have it narrowed to 11, not 9 or 10. You keep removing yourself and Vio. I don't think the rest of us can feel that way right now. Perhaps pressuring the people on the lynch would bring more evidence for us.


Put it this way, I'm as clear as anyone can get unless investigated. My role is proven, I'm open to town, and I'm trying to narrow down the list so it doesn't look like we have to FOS half the players in the game.

Though enough on that for now, if you're up to it I think we should try to create a pressuring method. Pick 2 players, pressure both for a claim, (and at this point with 4 non town in that list of players a claim is pretty much mandatory if they wish to not be lynched). Get a couple of claims and start weeding out counter claims, investigations, etc.

hey. i think we should pressure you for not wanting to be pressured, and avoiding being pressured. im not saying we need to lynch you, but you are as good a place as any to start. plus, the only way you can be sure about someone's role if they havent claimed is if you are masoned, whether town, scum, or 3rd party.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D3 23/25

Postby jak111 on Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:54 pm

/ wrote:Sorry that I've been missing.
That role sounds like a godsend to have late game, I'm trying to think about the solutions to one of those classic coin weighing games where you try to use the scale as few times as possible to find the fake...
Unfortunately I'm running on empty here tonight.
We should probably fix who should and shouldn't be on each day's bandwagon from now on, so let's try to work it out while we decide on a target.


Agreed!

Too tired tonight to choose, but we'll do this before day ends.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D3 23/25

Postby vodean on Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:40 pm

jak111 wrote:
/ wrote:Sorry that I've been missing.
That role sounds like a godsend to have late game, I'm trying to think about the solutions to one of those classic coin weighing games where you try to use the scale as few times as possible to find the fake...
Unfortunately I'm running on empty here tonight.
We should probably fix who should and shouldn't be on each day's bandwagon from now on, so let's try to work it out while we decide on a target.


Agreed!

Too tired tonight to choose, but we'll do this before day ends.

sounds like it should work out well.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D3 23/25

Postby aage on Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:21 am

chapcrap wrote:I'm not sure my role is valuable enough for protecting

I lol'd.

Personally I think the mafia aren't going to let Chap live a second longer than he has to. You can plan ahead to use his role to find all remaining mafia members, but chances are the mafia faction has a way around doc protection. Some kind of strongman kill, a busdrive, heck even a roleblock is enough to dismantle the "threat".

As to the list, the only vote we can remove from it is the one Jak stole, which gives us this:
Saf, jonty, soundman, violet, aage, JG, Nag, DRoZ, jak, Strike, Vodean

There's 11 names 4 of which are non town aligned. The suspicions towards Jak on the first few days are strong enough for me to still consider him one of them. The fact that he takes out his own name is not an issue for me as my name is also in there and I also know I'm not scum, but it bugs me that he took VioIet out too, and the reason he gives is meta as hell. I don't want to make leaps here but it makes me suspicious of the Jak/VioIet duo (if there is one).
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D3 23/25

Postby jak111 on Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:07 am

Vote DRoZ

Seems to be just sliding by without TRUE contribution, and what do you know, he's on the list.

Aage, Violet is almost clear in my eyes because of HOW she worded her post. She's clear enough to receive the benefit of doubt from my end.

Although from this non towns, I wonder if 4 are mafia or if only 1-2 are and others third party/cult? Either way, since no 3rd parties have stepped up to claim they are obviously ANTI town, hence, lynching them would be for the best.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D3 23/25

Postby F1fth on Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:05 pm

Sorry for not posting much yet today folks. I am really disappointed that people let the greg lynch go through despite his solid claim of an angel communicator. It fit the flavor of his role and we could have had Mr. Squirrel verify if he was an angel which would have gone a long way in figuring out Squirrel's alignment. However, it makes more sense in light of chap's revelation that 4 of the people voting for him were scum.

It helps us get an idea of how many scum are in the game and that they're willing to risk a bandwagon. I would say that the people who are most likely to be mafia are those who voted after jonty posted his metagaming "proof" that greg's role was scummy. I think this because I find that scum tend to be cautious and don't want to commit to a bandwagon based on suspicion alone but want evidence to fall back on. So basically, jonty's evidence would serve as the go-ahead reasoning for any cautious mafia make a potentially lynching vote against greg. That leaves us with DRoZ, strike wolf, and vodean.

Of the three, I agree with jak (for once) that DRoZ has certainly been the least active and made the least substantive contributions. Vote DRoZ
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D3 23/25

Postby F1fth on Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:13 pm

EBWOP: I pressed 'post' a bit too early. Meant to say WHY I hadn't posted much and it's because I hadn't realized the day had started/forgot about the game. :oops: Won't happen again I promise. With all this info coming to light this game is getting too exciting to forget. :)
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D3 23/25

Postby vodean on Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:18 pm

F1fth wrote:Sorry for not posting much yet today folks. I am really disappointed that people let the greg lynch go through despite his solid claim of an angel communicator. It fit the flavor of his role and we could have had Mr. Squirrel verify if he was an angel which would have gone a long way in figuring out Squirrel's alignment. However, it makes more sense in light of chap's revelation that 4 of the people voting for him were scum.

It helps us get an idea of how many scum are in the game and that they're willing to risk a bandwagon. I would say that the people who are most likely to be mafia are those who voted after jonty posted his metagaming "proof" that greg's role was scummy. I think this because I find that scum tend to be cautious and don't want to commit to a bandwagon based on suspicion alone but want evidence to fall back on. So basically, jonty's evidence would serve as the go-ahead reasoning for any cautious mafia make a potentially lynching vote against greg. That leaves us with DRoZ, strike wolf, and vodean.

Of the three, I agree with jak (for once) that DRoZ has certainly been the least active and made the least substantive contributions. Vote DRoZ

thats all well and good, but there were FOUR, not THREE anti-town on the BW. so even if you lynch all of us, and we ALL flip anti-town, you are still missing someone... and by then scum has an advantage anyway from the night, since we wont all flip anti-town, and even if we do, there will be some third parties.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D3 23/25

Postby F1fth on Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:35 pm

Fair point, but I would actually advocate against lynching all three of you as well not only because I find the scenario where you're all mafia unlikely, but because I want to focus on the short term here. There's only one lynch ahead of us tonight. Which lynch is the most likely to turn up scum? To me, that's DRoZ and the information from chap gave us is only a reason for voting him, not the reason. I think his bandwagon vote against greg and activity in this game both count against him.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D3 23/25

Postby DRoZ on Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:11 pm

Well, in case things go sour for me, I did want to get out a little information I learned last night. I was hoping to hear more about any night activities from sam, but since it doesn't seem that he wishes to say anything, I will say this... I am a watcher, Augustine of Canterbury, last night I watched aage and he was targeted by samgrossy. Earlier today, sam spoke on Jak's vote on aage, perhaps the targeting was a means to set Jak up today, perhaps not. I feared releasing this, should it be that sam's role was a productive one, but lynchings can go quickly so I am putting that out there. Either way it is information. I would also like to point out a few things about myself, back long ago when I played mafia on here, I tended to be a bit post happy, I think this brought a lot of attention my way and I would wind up lynched or night killed early on, which led to quite a bit of frustration and as such, I now try to only make substantial posts, or short posts as a means of clarifying.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - Confirm Here

Postby Hensow on Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:24 pm

Wilst I find that for the same reason as jak I find violet less lightly to be scum I am not prepare to take it as

edocsil wrote:Also, one quick note. I would suggest not directly comparing WCs. While it isn't strictly against the rules (I really hate to modkill) I will say that it would be a really bad idea to META it too much.


There also hase been put the question of who should be on the bandwagon if we expect chapcrap to last the night my inclination would be to have it be have it be those that were not on last nights such that we know the number of scum I think it's 12 to lynch and 12 peps including chapcrap who did not lynch greywolf so if we want to lynch one of them we may have to pick someone to be the twelfth (depending on how ??? interacts with chaps power)
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D3 23/25

Postby samgrossy on Sun Oct 21, 2012 7:22 pm

DRoZ wrote:Well, in case things go sour for me, I did want to get out a little information I learned last night. I was hoping to hear more about any night activities from sam, but since it doesn't seem that he wishes to say anything, I will say this... I am a watcher, Augustine of Canterbury, last night I watched aage and he was targeted by samgrossy. Earlier today, sam spoke on Jak's vote on aage, perhaps the targeting was a means to set Jak up today, perhaps not. I feared releasing this, should it be that sam's role was a productive one, but lynchings can go quickly so I am putting that out there. Either way it is information. I would also like to point out a few things about myself, back long ago when I played mafia on here, I tended to be a bit post happy, I think this brought a lot of attention my way and I would wind up lynched or night killed early on, which led to quite a bit of frustration and as such, I now try to only make substantial posts, or short posts as a means of clarifying.


I will verify that I did visit Aage last night.

What I am confusesd about is that I never heard you ask about my night actions. If you did, it was only in the last day and you didn't give me enough time to respond... although I don't think you ever asked. So why out that I visited Aage, without first coming right out and asking me in the thread about my night action. While I don't think this is necessarily scummy, it just doesn't make any sense.

If you would have asked in thread "Sam, did you visit anyone last night" you just tell me that I did visit someone. This does two things. First, it gives you no info as to whether I tell the truth or not. Next, it gives scum a two targets tonight, a watcher and me. Both of us have non vanilla roles.

Well, so far, my case on Victor stands. I'm going to spend some time soon looking back at the voting patterns of the past few days. We probably can guess that there is not many more than 4 or 5 scum, and it definitely looks like they are trying to force a lynch.

Lastly, let me just say that I hope you realize that 4 or 5 scum seem reasonable. And if you think there are 5, then only one of them didn't vote for Greg D2. So, I would argue to you, that if you think I am trying to "frame Jak" because I am scum, on its merits, it is statistically unlikely that I am scum. I voted Jak on D2 because I truly felt, and still feel, he is scum. Our list of scum should be focused on the people that lynched Greg. The benefit is that if we lynch today we can compare the lynch list and the number of scum to determine who the scum are pretty easily. We just need two lynch days worth of data.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D3 23/25

Postby DRoZ on Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:24 pm

I was hoping to hear you discuss, not that I asked, I was just hoping you may have something to say from your night action without me drawing attention to it, as I said before, I did not want to out anything. The only reason I bring it up now is an attempt to ease some of the growing pressure on me. Had I not, then surely I would have remained an attractive lynch option, waiting until votes have built up would have just made my response seem desperate.

As to my bringing up the post about Jak, I was not attempting to build a case on you, I was merely thinking out loud. I agree with the points you have made to this point regarding Victor and Jak and have had no real questions about your townliness.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D3 23/25

Postby aage on Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:27 pm

samgrossy wrote:
DRoZ wrote:Well, in case things go sour for me, I did want to get out a little information I learned last night. I was hoping to hear more about any night activities from sam, but since it doesn't seem that he wishes to say anything, I will say this... I am a watcher, Augustine of Canterbury, last night I watched aage and he was targeted by samgrossy. Earlier today, sam spoke on Jak's vote on aage, perhaps the targeting was a means to set Jak up today, perhaps not. I feared releasing this, should it be that sam's role was a productive one, but lynchings can go quickly so I am putting that out there. Either way it is information. I would also like to point out a few things about myself, back long ago when I played mafia on here, I tended to be a bit post happy, I think this brought a lot of attention my way and I would wind up lynched or night killed early on, which led to quite a bit of frustration and as such, I now try to only make substantial posts, or short posts as a means of clarifying.


I will verify that I did visit Aage last night.

What I am confusesd about is that I never heard you ask about my night actions. If you did, it was only in the last day and you didn't give me enough time to respond... although I don't think you ever asked. So why out that I visited Aage, without first coming right out and asking me in the thread about my night action. While I don't think this is necessarily scummy, it just doesn't make any sense.

If you would have asked in thread "Sam, did you visit anyone last night" you just tell me that I did visit someone. This does two things. First, it gives you no info as to whether I tell the truth or not. Next, it gives scum a two targets tonight, a watcher and me. Both of us have non vanilla roles.

My guess is that he panicked. I'm not aware of any negative effects that your visit has caused, so it seems okay. I'm curious to what you did do, but I'm not expecting you to tell me.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D3 23/25

Postby aage on Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:29 pm

DRoZ wrote:I was hoping to hear you discuss, not that I asked, I was just hoping you may have something to say from your night action without me drawing attention to it, as I said before, I did not want to out anything. The only reason I bring it up now is an attempt to ease some of the growing pressure on me. Had I not, then surely I would have remained an attractive lynch option, waiting until votes have built up would have just made my response seem desperate.

You were hoping to learn something without drawing attention to it... by drawing attention to it? How does that work?
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D3 23/25

Postby DRoZ on Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:47 pm

I was responding to sams confusion about my not asking him about visiting you. I was hoping that he or you would reference whatever happened last night without my bringing it up. As there seems to be sentiment against me I decided to speak on what I knew. I used past tense to convey my mindset prior to the votes against me. I apologize for not being clear enough for you to follow.

To simplify... 1) I watched you last night and saw that sam targeted you. 2) At the start of the day I followed along hoping one of you would reveal what exchange happened between you last night.(This is the point that I had decided not to draw attention to the targeting) 3) A few people began to question my alignment, so I said what I knew, as I said before, waiting until further animosity built would have made it much more difficult to clear myself. (This is the point I decided to draw attention to the targeting) I am not sure how to make that any more clear.
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D3 23/25

Postby vodean on Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:58 pm

DRoZ wrote:I was responding to sams confusion about my not asking him about visiting you. I was hoping that he or you would reference whatever happened last night without my bringing it up. As there seems to be sentiment against me I decided to speak on what I knew. I used past tense to convey my mindset prior to the votes against me. I apologize for not being clear enough for you to follow.

To simplify... 1) I watched you last night and saw that sam targeted you. 2) At the start of the day I followed along hoping one of you would reveal what exchange happened between you last night.(This is the point that I had decided not to draw attention to the targeting) 3) A few people began to question my alignment, so I said what I knew, as I said before, waiting until further animosity built would have made it much more difficult to clear myself. (This is the point I decided to draw attention to the targeting) I am not sure how to make that any more clear.

or you are scum, with info about a fellow scum that you are using to try and make us forget about you before we BW you too much
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<NoSurvivors› then vote chuck for being an info whore
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Re: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D3 23/25

Postby aage on Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:22 am

lmfao... Okay Vodean, your last three posts.

sounds like it should work out well.
there wasn't (nor isn't) even a plan yet, so I find it interesting that you already know that it will work out.
thats all well and good, but there were FOUR, not THREE anti-town on the BW. so even if you lynch all of us, and we ALL flip anti-town, you are still missing someone... and by then scum has an advantage anyway from the night, since we wont all flip anti-town, and even if we do, there will be some third parties.
Aside from the fact that f1fth said 'those people are most likely to be mafia' rather than 'these are all the scum in the group guys', this is a useless remark.
or you are scum, with info about a fellow scum that you are using to try and make us forget about you before we BW you too much
Yeah... who are you implying to be scum here, me or Sam? If Sam, that'd be very poor teamplay. If me, he could have never known who targeted me especially since I wasn't even aware of it.
FoS.
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