Batman : Arkham City [Day 4] And we're back

[Gillipig]

i've been in a game 12 player game with 2 trackers (modded by crazymilkshake actually) so I don't think in a 21 there is no chance. I have to say that for me crazy is almost cleared. his action is confirmed by both squirel and nagerous... so I say crazy tracks gillipig tonight and gillipig goes after who he wants. squirel wifoms on him/me/crazy tonight for a bus, so mafia has 1/3 chances to explode.

I found the game in question, and you are leaving out one fairly important detail. In that game one of the Trackers was some sort of third party.
My point here is the I am strongly of the opinion that this game won't have two town Trackers. Accordingly, unless one of the two want's to make a case that they are a third party and that we should let them live, I feel that we need to lynch Gillipig today.

to tell the truth I didn't remember that one of them was third party. Even though, I don't see that much harm if either of them is third party and if it's the case I'd rather make them our ally. if we ask for example gillipig to track nagerous who has night actions and crazy to track gilipig we could get some useful information. why the hell lynch gillipig if there are good chances he is telling the truth??

Because he's suspect number two. If I'm not getting lynched today he might be. That's probably what he's thinking.
I'm all for being checked tonight.

See, I think there is only one tracker. I'm prepared to believe crazy as he claimed first.

This is based on what? Gut feeling? Logic doesn't contradict two town trackers in a game as large as this.

[spiesr]

to tell the truth I didn't remember that one of them was third party. Even though, I don't see that much harm if either of them is third party and if it's the case I'd rather make them our ally. if we ask for example gillipig to track nagerous who has night actions and crazy to track gilipig we could get some useful information.

Since he did not claim to be a third party when he made his roleclaim, then I am left to assumes one of the following things about his alignment. He is either actually town (and I strongly doubt both Gillipig and crazy are both town trackers) or he is a threat to the town.

why the hell lynch gillipig if there are good chances he is telling the truth??

The only answer to this is that I don't think that there are good chances he is telling the truth.
Anyhow, still waiting for vodean to respond.

[crazymilkshake5]

I do have plans for my tracking, but it would require me not targeting gillipig. but im willing to do it.

(if i track the right person I nab 2 mafia.)

[betiko]

I do have plans for my tracking, but it would require me not targeting gillipig. but im willing to do it.

(if i track the right person I nab 2 mafia.)

we could ask gillipig to track you then? would still work. He will have to say is there any role such as mafia tracker? i've never come to this 'even though i guess it's to the mod's discretion and I guess he can come up with the roles he wants)

[Mr. Squirrel]

See, I think there is only one tracker. I'm prepared to believe crazy as he claimed first.

This is based on what? Gut feeling? Logic doesn't contradict two town trackers in a game as large as this.

Have you ever modded a large game such as this one? Its difficult to get the balance just right. Too many investigative town roles can destroy a mafia faction because they get so many nights to use them. It's not impossible for there to be two trackers, but its highly unlikely that they're both town.

I do have plans for my tracking, but it would require me not targeting gillipig. but im willing to do it.

(if i track the right person I nab 2 mafia.)

I say you do whatever you want. The more we plan out our night actions, the more the scum are able to plan around it as well.

[betiko]

See, I think there is only one tracker. I'm prepared to believe crazy as he claimed first.

This is based on what? Gut feeling? Logic doesn't contradict two town trackers in a game as large as this.

Have you ever modded a large game such as this one? Its difficult to get the balance just right. Too many investigative town roles can destroy a mafia faction because they get so many nights to use them. It's not impossible for there to be two trackers, but its highly unlikely that they're both town.

I do have plans for my tracking, but it would require me not targeting gillipig. but im willing to do it.

(if i track the right person I nab 2 mafia.)

I say you do whatever you want. The more we plan out our night actions, the more the scum are able to plan around it as well.

i haven't so i don't really know how you need to balance a game corectly. but what do you think if one of them is third party, should we let him live? what about asking gillipig to track crazy, and make him talk before crazy about his night visit?

and yes prod vodean. he's usually quite active.

we haven't seen jak for a while, iliad needs to be replaced cause 1 post so far is a joke. shaggy dan just comes around to tell us he has internet problems.

[ghostly447]

Okay guys, overall I am fine with the plan that CM5 tracks Gilli, and gilli does what he wants. But one suggestion. Would it not be too easy for the mafia to just kill gillipig? I propose that the watcher at least considering watching CM5 or Gilli, if we should have a tracker, at least to WIFOM it to hopefully fool the mafia in such a way they dont kill either of the two claimed trackers. My other problem with it is that I think both will probably try to track each other, because if neither beleive the other, they will want to prove they are wrong.

Either way, with the first thought I threw out there, it should effectively prove if either is lying, and it should also prove effective in keeping them both alive. But personally, I believe that gillipig is town because no one has countered him.

I think I'll keep my vote on Gillipig.

It may just be a poorly constructed arguement, but the accusation that nagerous is a maf assassin who failed last night seems really out of place. While it is a possibility, there are plenty more reasonable explanations for nag's visit last night.
Gilli may have been role fishing (finding roleblockers or back-up docs), which would be a good reason to bring up a maf assassin especially since extra night kills (SK) had been mentioned on Day 1 anyways.

Last I checked, he didnt accuse Nag of being an assassin. My memory may be going bad, but if I am not mistaken he only suggested that Nag may be an assassin, therefore was only suggesting a possibility. There are obviously plenty more reasonable explanations, but the fact he was going out on a possiblity, does not mean he is neccessarily saying thats the only possiblity.

This was ultimately a BW vote that was the second to last vote on gillipig pushing for a claim. It is also pretty bad on your record that you only have about half a dozen posts of substance, and one of the posts you have is the following:

"So do we push for a lynch or look at someone else?
I'd like to see what other cases are floating around so far."
-by Nendreel on Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:01 pm

Directly after the Betiko BW.
So funny too that you just so happened to also say:

"hmm, who else has been absent a while?"
-Nendreel on Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:17 pm

Directly before going inactive post wise for the next 6 days.

Fun fun.

unvote vote Neendreel

[jonty125]

See, I think there is only one tracker. I'm prepared to believe crazy as he claimed first.

This is based on what? Gut feeling? Logic doesn't contradict two town trackers in a game as large as this.

See I would never put same role same alignment in a balnced game (apart from VT and Goon) and if someone claimed my role, I would counterclaim.

[spiesr]

Either way, with the first thought I threw out there, it should effectively prove if either is lying, and it should also prove effective in keeping them both alive. But personally, I believe that gillipig is town because no one has countered him.

No one has countered him on what? His claimed role his the same as Crazy's, so I the only thing you can be talking about here is his character claim. I see two problems with this.
First, 12 of the twenty living players have not yet posted since he revealed his character, so it seems a little early to make any judgments on if he will be countered yet.
Second, in a theme game like this one there is a distinct possibility that the mafia could have been provided with fake-claims.

[Nendreel]

But personally, I believe that gillipig is town because no one has countered him.

Last I checked, he didnt accuse Nag of being an assassin. My memory may be going bad, but if I am not mistaken he only suggested that Nag may be an assassin, therefore was only suggesting a possibility. There are obviously plenty more reasonable explanations, but the fact he was going out on a possiblity, does not mean he is neccessarily saying thats the only possiblity.

I never said we should force him to claim. But no one had brought up the point that Nag could've made an unsuccessful kill attempt on edo and that is why he's alive. The strongest lead on that Nag could be a maf is that only one town died last night. With this many players in a game surely the mafia has at least one additional assassin or night killing character. Whoever it was failed last night. Maybe he attempted to kill a target that can't be killed at night or his target was saved. Maybe it was Nag maybe it was someone else, like you or me. Either way it's highly likely that mafia has an assassin like character. Especially considering that this is a Batman inspired mafia game.

This is the post in question. I find the highlighted part to be out of place. I suppose calling it an accusation might have been to strong a word on my part, but it still reads as a heavy handed possibility.

This was ultimately a BW vote that was the second to last vote on gillipig pushing for a claim.

Um, yes. I found Gilli to be acting scummy. Should I have unvoted him? Or keep quiet and make my vote look like a bandwagon starter. Or should I explain why I'm doing something?

It is also pretty bad on your record that you only have about half a dozen posts of substance, and one of the posts you have is the following:

"So do we push for a lynch or look at someone else?
I'd like to see what other cases are floating around so far."
-by Nendreel on Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:01 pm
Directly after the Betiko BW.

I posted that a day before the Day 1 deadline. What are our options at that point? Push for a lynch of someone who was looking scummy, put pressure on someone else or move for a no lynch.

So funny too that you just so happened to also say:

"hmm, who else has been absent a while?"
-Nendreel on Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:17 pm

Directly before going inactive post wise for the next 6 days.

Um, I posted on the 19 (which you've happily provided) and on the 24th. Which means it was only 4 days that I hadn't posted. Two of them weekend days when I don't spend much time on CC. And to be honest I didn't have anything substansive to post in that time. I suppose I could post more, but I prefer to make posts with some substance.

Still, I guess this'll teach me not to post joke lines again.

[nagerous]

I do have plans for my tracking, but it would require me not targeting gillipig. but im willing to do it.

(if i track the right person I nab 2 mafia.)

we could ask gillipig to track you then? would still work. He will have to say is there any role such as mafia tracker? i've never come to this 'even though i guess it's to the mod's discretion and I guess he can come up with the roles he wants)

Considering the gravitas of your plans and the fact our doctor is dead, I'd say if we have a watcher he should damn well watch crazy. Also, tracking crazy sounds like pretty much a waste at this stage, the powers could definitely be put to better use.

[vodean]

it is true that i didnt visit anyone, however im not sure that i want to believe his claim even now... a no visit would be quite likely N1, im guessing. CM5 would not really be able to accurately fake that claim, unless he and nag are coordinating (scumbuddies, etc.). im leaving my vote, and FOSing ghostly for trying to distract us with the following:

Okay guys, overall I am fine with the plan that CM5 tracks Gilli, and gilli does what he wants. But one suggestion. Would it not be too easy for the mafia to just kill gillipig? I propose that the watcher at least considering watching CM5 or Gilli, if we should have a tracker, at least to WIFOM it to hopefully fool the mafia in such a way they dont kill either of the two claimed trackers. My other problem with it is that I think both will probably try to track each other, because if neither beleive the other, they will want to prove they are wrong.

Either way, with the first thought I threw out there, it should effectively prove if either is lying, and it should also prove effective in keeping them both alive. But personally, I believe that gillipig is town because no one has countered him.

I think I'll keep my vote on Gillipig.

It may just be a poorly constructed arguement, but the accusation that nagerous is a maf assassin who failed last night seems really out of place. While it is a possibility, there are plenty more reasonable explanations for nag's visit last night.
Gilli may have been role fishing (finding roleblockers or back-up docs), which would be a good reason to bring up a maf assassin especially since extra night kills (SK) had been mentioned on Day 1 anyways.

Last I checked, he didnt accuse Nag of being an assassin. My memory may be going bad, but if I am not mistaken he only suggested that Nag may be an assassin, therefore was only suggesting a possibility. There are obviously plenty more reasonable explanations, but the fact he was going out on a possiblity, does not mean he is neccessarily saying thats the only possiblity.

This was ultimately a BW vote that was the second to last vote on gillipig pushing for a claim. It is also pretty bad on your record that you only have about half a dozen posts of substance, and one of the posts you have is the following:

"So do we push for a lynch or look at someone else?
I'd like to see what other cases are floating around so far."
-by Nendreel on Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:01 pm

Directly after the Betiko BW.
So funny too that you just so happened to also say:

"hmm, who else has been absent a while?"
-Nendreel on Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:17 pm

Directly before going inactive post wise for the next 6 days.

Fun fun.

unvote vote Neendreel

[ghostly447]

Trying to distract everyone? I was putting that up because now, after what 2 days at least, there was no reply on if Gillipig's Character claim was fake. I guess I was very quick to throw out the idea of it being a fake claim, because that was a very good option. Sorry about that. Unvote. Im still not convinced that gillipig is mafia, but I dont know. So I am just going to leave my vote off of people.

[betiko]

I do have plans for my tracking, but it would require me not targeting gillipig. but im willing to do it.

(if i track the right person I nab 2 mafia.)

we could ask gillipig to track you then? would still work. He will have to say is there any role such as mafia tracker? i've never come to this 'even though i guess it's to the mod's discretion and I guess he can come up with the roles he wants)

Considering the gravitas of your plans and the fact our doctor is dead, I'd say if we have a watcher he should damn well watch crazy. Also, tracking crazy sounds like pretty much a waste at this stage, the powers could definitely be put to better use.

the point being to see if gillipig is indeed a tracker ...

[Gillipig]

Working overtime tommorow and on Friday so I probably won't be able to post those days. I'll be back on Saturday.

[nagerous]

I do have plans for my tracking, but it would require me not targeting gillipig. but im willing to do it.

(if i track the right person I nab 2 mafia.)

we could ask gillipig to track you then? would still work. He will have to say is there any role such as mafia tracker? i've never come to this 'even though i guess it's to the mod's discretion and I guess he can come up with the roles he wants)

Considering the gravitas of your plans and the fact our doctor is dead, I'd say if we have a watcher he should damn well watch crazy. Also, tracking crazy sounds like pretty much a waste at this stage, the powers could definitely be put to better use.

the point being to see if gillipig is indeed a tracker ...

Tracking anyone would help prove that as he'd pretty quickly be exposed if he is lying

[betiko]

I do have plans for my tracking, but it would require me not targeting gillipig. but im willing to do it.

(if i track the right person I nab 2 mafia.)

we could ask gillipig to track you then? would still work. He will have to say is there any role such as mafia tracker? i've never come to this 'even though i guess it's to the mod's discretion and I guess he can come up with the roles he wants)

Considering the gravitas of your plans and the fact our doctor is dead, I'd say if we have a watcher he should damn well watch crazy. Also, tracking crazy sounds like pretty much a waste at this stage, the powers could definitely be put to better use.

the point being to see if gillipig is indeed a tracker ...

Tracking anyone would help prove that as he'd pretty quickly be exposed if he is lying

that would just either expose another power role, wifom with a mafia tracked, or just make him visit someone with no night action as it seems to be vodean's case in my opinion. we'd learn more if he tracks crazy i think.

[ShaggyDan]

Have a major assignment due in 8 hours. Will catch up and post either afterwards or tomorrow morning (24 hours). Really sorry guys.

[gregwolf121]

okay first off sorry for not posting once again the apartment internet went out, and there still working on it but oh well, also sorry to bring this back up, i understand now why my vote on gillipig didn't work, but why is my vote on jonty, i looked back but i had only tried to vote gillipig since the begining of the day, so i know its off topic from what the tread is talking about, but did my vote get stolen, or is it an error.

Vote Count 2.2

betiko (2)- edocsil, jak111
new guy1 (1)- jonty125
spiesr (3)- , DRoZ, betiko, Vodean
Gillipig (4)- Nendreel, LSU Josh, spiesr, ghostly447
jonty125 (1)- gregwolf121


Not Voting (10)- Nagerous, cm5, strike wolf, gillipig, Mr. Squirrel, ShaggyDan, Illiad, new guy1, /



Prods going out tonight as well. I think Illiad especially...anyone else specifically??
With 20 alive it takes 11 to lynch. Deadline is currently not set

[lord voldemort]

error

[LSU Tiger Josh]

I still like the idea of gilli being a bad guy since I find it pretty unlikely that town would have 2 trackers and the way he was carrying on about that role makes it sound to me like that he knows something more than just what a tracker would know.

[strike wolf]

I too believe Crazymilkshake over Gillipig (somewhat stronger claim though both are important in the game and more backing as far as players confirming his action result). Two town trackers in a game is at the very least exceedingly rare. Vodean did confirm that he did not go anywhere however. I believe I would be willing to wait another night to see where they went. I have an idea how to test their claims that would work better than what has been suggested however it does not work if everyone knows what the details of their investigations are going to be.

[betiko]

I too believe Crazymilkshake over Gillipig (somewhat stronger claim though both are important in the game and more backing as far as players confirming his action result). Two town trackers in a game is at the very least exceedingly rare. Vodean did confirm that he did not go anywhere however. I believe I would be willing to wait another night to see where they went. I have an idea how to test their claims that would work better than what has been suggested however it does not work if everyone knows what the details of their investigations are going to be.

well the good thing about my plan is that it's based on common knowledge. yours seem to involve unveiling an investigative role tomorrow...

[strike wolf]

Not necessarily. If the character with the correct role knows what they are doing they should probably do this anyways. And thinking about it, it still works with yours potentially. The only problem with common knowledge is that a mafia with the correct power roles can use that to screw with town.

[jonty125]

Well you've managed to confuse me with the "plan". But I won't ask you to clarify?