Time Warp Mafia Endgame: Town Wins

[betiko]

fucking hell, you just won't let go on your stupid comment will you? doom said 2 days because he was not going to say 2,4 days left or whatever, it was over 2 days not under 2 days and that's not even the point. We are both wrong on the timing since it's somewhere in between what we both said (even if I'm 10h closer than you..). Now will you stop cutting hair there because you are not getting anywhere there, I won't either.
The point is not that you wanted vodean to claim either, the point is that you wanted him t claim only if he had an important role which is very scummy in my opinion and in spite of your explanation. My vote stays.

Can you not read? Can you not think logically? Why should I let go when your vote is still on me?

You can not use any post after mine to justify the timing. It doesn't matter if it ended up being seven days until the day ended. The fact is at that point in time Doom said that there were two days left. As such when I made my post it was less than two days left. You get that? And I'm not the one that brought up this whole timing thing. YOU did. When you tried to use it as a point against me. As such I will continue to argue the point until you get it through your thick skull that you are wrong! Or until I just give up hope that you will see reason.

Second I already explained what I meant by saying "important role". Obviously by bringing it up now you skimmed my explanation. I'm not going to take the time to repeat it. Go back and look at it again. Also it would help if you worked on your grammar. I'm sure I'm not the only one that has trouble figuring out what you're saying.

I'm not sure who's being stubborn and thick here. I'm not going back either on what I have already explained and that you fail to understand.
About my grammar, come back when you'll be able to express yourself in other languages. Expecting me to express myself as well as a born and raised anglophone as you all are proves your sense of empathy.

[pancakemix]

No need to question anyone's ability to think or speak. Keep it cool, guys.

Game relevant post to follow.

[pancakemix]

I must say, I find that anon vote on me interesting. It has a few implications, but the most important among them: IB isn't scum.

unvote

Still a mystery, however, is who is responsible for it. Do we think it's the same perso who voted edoc on D1?

[Kanin Usagi]

I must say, I find that anon vote on me interesting. It has a few implications, but the most important among them: IB isn't scum.

unvote

Still a mystery, however, is who is responsible for it. Do we think it's the same perso who voted edoc on D1?

Unless there's a third vote manipulator in play, then probably. But damn this game is confusing. V_V

[jonty125]

2 anon's. Edocsil was prob wrong about his assumption there were no mafia double voters.

Pretty bold statment to make. I'd be surprised if mafia DIDN'T; as there seems to be a lot of vote manipulation roles.

[Nendreel]

In a game with potential back to back Days it would make sense for maf to have some vote manipulation abilities to try and cause mislynches in order to compensate for a lack of night kills.

[NoSurvivors]

So, IB isn't a mafia double voter, as far as we know, but didnt vode say he was a double voter?

-3 minute interval-

I am D1. therefore i support the theory that on your day you get to double-vote. i also disagree that only mafia are nights. think about it. if we mislynch, then the mafia kill a townie (day), moving us into another night phase where the mafia kill another day. and so on and so forth. that would only be survivable if town was seriously OP, or if there were a large number of competing scum factions, which would screw town over. so there must be night-townies.

found it.. so vode said there might be double voting each day... but you guys think mafia has some sort of manipulator role going on? So does that mean that if say IB votes his anon on jonty and the mafia can pull it off him and put it on kanin (for example)?

[Iron Butterfly]

So, IB isn't a mafia double voter, as far as we know, but didnt vode say he was a double voter?

-3 minute interval-

I am D1. therefore i support the theory that on your day you get to double-vote. i also disagree that only mafia are nights. think about it. if we mislynch, then the mafia kill a townie (day), moving us into another night phase where the mafia kill another day. and so on and so forth. that would only be survivable if town was seriously OP, or if there were a large number of competing scum factions, which would screw town over. so there must be night-townies.

found it.. so vode said there might be double voting each day... but you guys think mafia has some sort of manipulator role going on? So does that mean that if say IB votes his anon on jonty and the mafia can pull it off him and put it on kanin (for example)?

"I am day 1 therefor I support the theory that on your day you get to double vote."

That is pretty much an admittance of being the day one double voter. He supports the theory because he is day 1. On day one there was a double voter. Why not just come out and say that is what happened?

There is also a difference between a vote manipulater and double voter. All I can do is vote. one regular and one secrete, though I no longer have the right to a secrete vote for obvious reasons. Greg was a vote manipulator as he could suppress a vote.

I have stated before for several reasons, the main one being Dooms disclaimer, that I beleive the game is all about the voting. Im sure there are some night actions but on the whole....

[ghostly447]

2 anon's. Edocsil was prob wrong about his assumption there were no mafia double voters.

Pretty bold statment to make. I'd be surprised if mafia DIDN'T; as there seems to be a lot of vote manipulation roles.

Pretty easy to come about and finally say you think there is a mafia double voter when 90% of the evidence points in that direction.

Pretty bold statment to make. I'd be surprised if mafia DIDN'T; as there seems to be a lot of vote manipulation roles.[/quote]

In a game with potential back to back Days it would make sense for maf to have some vote manipulation abilities to try and cause mislynches in order to compensate for a lack of night kills.

Goes for you too.

Thats not to say I havent been quiet either. I just took it as a possibility throughout the entire game and finally have proof that its (more than likely, not positive) 3rd party, or mafia.

Moving on.

You are right bet critisism =/= vote. I will vote PCM for placing a vote on that ludicris case vs IB

Beg pardon? He said his vote would go one way, an anonymus vote went another way. Who's to say he was even responsible for that vote? You yourself suggested the possibility of a scum double voter yesterday, so I can't see you having a mind to doubt the possibility. That's not even accounting for the whole PM business, which is a serious breach of the rules and I'm surprised no warning or modkill was handed down.

At this point, it can't be denied that he's got a double vote with the vote on betiko, but he could still be scum (again, your own suggestion opens up that possibility). Granted, that doesn't make it fact, but it doesn't discount it. Unless, that is, you know something we don't. Matter of fact, it seems odd to me you're just willing to follow simply because his vote exists.

@IB: You keep saying "when there was no need to". Why would you say there was no need? Scum always have need of town cred. That's ridiculous to suggest that there would be no value in bussing a scummate.

Call it a gut feeling, but the first part of this post doesnt sit right with me. This just seems to be more of a post of "Well mafia got the shit end of the stick there. A modkill should have probably taken place because it was earned, and now I am being pressured and need to throw attention away right quick". Honestly, I was thinking it was an off post when I first read it, wanted to wait for a bit to see if it still didnt sit right, and just now remembered to go back and look. It still doesnt sit right, but for now I will only FOS PCM because it is not a defend able point.

[betiko]

So, IB isn't a mafia double voter, as far as we know, but didnt vode say he was a double voter?

-3 minute interval-

I am D1. therefore i support the theory that on your day you get to double-vote. i also disagree that only mafia are nights. think about it. if we mislynch, then the mafia kill a townie (day), moving us into another night phase where the mafia kill another day. and so on and so forth. that would only be survivable if town was seriously OP, or if there were a large number of competing scum factions, which would screw town over. so there must be night-townies.

found it.. so vode said there might be double voting each day... but you guys think mafia has some sort of manipulator role going on? So does that mean that if say IB votes his anon on jonty and the mafia can pull it off him and put it on kanin (for example)?

"I am day 1 therefor I support the theory that on your day you get to double vote."

That is pretty much an admittance of being the day one double voter. He supports the theory because he is day 1. On day one there was a double voter. Why not just come out and say that is what happened?

There is also a difference between a vote manipulater and double voter. All I can do is vote. one regular and one secrete, though I no longer have the right to a secrete vote for obvious reasons. Greg was a vote manipulator as he could suppress a vote.

I have stated before for several reasons, the main one being Dooms disclaimer, that I beleive the game is all about the voting. Im sure there are some night actions but on the whole....

I don't know about that, after the scene I just came up with that idea but it doesn't seem to fit anymore with you being day 6 and a "natural" double voter and no extra vote for your day (unless you do have 3 votes today and the anons come from you? unlikely)
I thought with the day 1 double vote that on your day, your vote would count double in spite of you. I think it was just a coincidence regarding vodean, as the double vote mechanic seem to be something you pm doom about and also that you can place your 2 votes on 2 different people. But maybe the 2 double voters have different mechanics..
If vodean double voted on day 1 I don't think it was intentional.

[vodean]

god. for people who love to insult my intelligence, you arent very bright. i was not in control of my second vote. i said this. if it was me, and im not sure it was, it was placed automatically on the person i was voting. once we get a vote count confirming IB's votes as being on two different people i will unvote. untill then we have not seen that IB is a true double-voter, and regardless we dont know that he is town.

[NoSurvivors]

god. for people who love to insult my intelligence, you arent very bright. i was not in control of my second vote. i said this. if it was me, and im not sure it was, it was placed automatically on the person i was voting. once we get a vote count confirming IB's votes as being on two different people i will unvote. untill then we have not seen that IB is a true double-voter, and regardless we dont know that he is town.

I wasn't insulting your intelligence. You're probably 100x smarter than I am (which isn't hard but still point made?)

Anyhow then you aren't a double voter if you can't control your own vote (unless your theory is correct) so yeah I'm wondering who day 6 is at this point, I'd want them to throw a vote out there at random to see if it's true (I know it's kinda scummy but it's been picking at my brain this whole time lol) put the vote on me if it makes you feel any better..

[betiko]

god. for people who love to insult my intelligence, you arent very bright. i was not in control of my second vote. i said this. if it was me, and im not sure it was, it was placed automatically on the person i was voting. once we get a vote count confirming IB's votes as being on two different people i will unvote. untill then we have not seen that IB is a true double-voter, and regardless we dont know that he is town.

I wasn't insulting your intelligence. You're probably 100x smarter than I am (which isn't hard but still point made?)

Anyhow then you aren't a double voter if you can't control your own vote (unless your theory is correct) so yeah I'm wondering who day 6 is at this point, I'd want them to throw a vote out there at random to see if it's true (I know it's kinda scummy but it's been picking at my brain this whole time lol) put the vote on me if it makes you feel any better..

apparently you've missed this but IB is day 6 and he said he can't "triple vote". That's what I was explaining in my previous post but I admit it's hard to follow, with "game days" and "day nameclaims" put together in the same phrases as "day". This theory is pretty unlikely with IB's revelations, supposing he's telling the truth.

[Iron Butterfly]

god. for people who love to insult my intelligence, you arent very bright. i was not in control of my second vote. i said this. if it was me, and im not sure it was, it was placed automatically on the person i was voting. once we get a vote count confirming IB's votes as being on two different people i will unvote. untill then we have not seen that IB is a true double-voter, and regardless we dont know that he is town.

Why is it you assumed that because you are day one you must have a double vote based on the fact an anon appeared on the person you voted for? That vote could have come from anyone. If that is your sole reason for creating this theory you are a bigger fool then I thought.

[NoSurvivors]

god. for people who love to insult my intelligence, you arent very bright. i was not in control of my second vote. i said this. if it was me, and im not sure it was, it was placed automatically on the person i was voting. once we get a vote count confirming IB's votes as being on two different people i will unvote. untill then we have not seen that IB is a true double-voter, and regardless we dont know that he is town.

I wasn't insulting your intelligence. You're probably 100x smarter than I am (which isn't hard but still point made?)

Anyhow then you aren't a double voter if you can't control your own vote (unless your theory is correct) so yeah I'm wondering who day 6 is at this point, I'd want them to throw a vote out there at random to see if it's true (I know it's kinda scummy but it's been picking at my brain this whole time lol) put the vote on me if it makes you feel any better..

apparently you've missed this but IB is day 6 and he said he can't "triple vote". That's what I was explaining in my previous post but I admit it's hard to follow, with "game days" and "day nameclaims" put together in the same phrases as "day". This theory is pretty unlikely with IB's revelations, supposing he's telling the truth.

Well, I feel like a dumbass. again..

[betiko]

god. for people who love to insult my intelligence, you arent very bright. i was not in control of my second vote. i said this. if it was me, and im not sure it was, it was placed automatically on the person i was voting. once we get a vote count confirming IB's votes as being on two different people i will unvote. untill then we have not seen that IB is a true double-voter, and regardless we dont know that he is town.

Why is it you assumed that because you are day one you must have a double vote based on the fact an anon appeared on the person you voted for? That vote could have come from anyone. If that is your sole reason for creating this theory you are a bigger fool then I thought.

gosh, I don't defend vodean often, but attacking him for this is ridiculous
1) during day 1 we saw the anon vote appear on edoc
2) I thought the voter had to have both of his votes on the same person, I suggested that maybe when it's our day our vote counts double in spite of us, and I asked people other than me who had their votes on edoc if they happened to be day 1
3) vodean answered he was in fact day 1 and at the time the theory was possible

At that point we had much less information about double voters, information that you brought up. Where do you see that anyone assumes this theory is valid anymore?? vodean quite clearly shows that he isn't sure of anything and is not assuming this at all.

now we entered in the money time and I think it's time to see where we are going. I am not really sure of who would be our best target to tell the truth, but we might startputting real pressure on someone. Given the anon votes, I think claims should be done at l-3

[jonty125]

I think claims should be done at l-3

I disagree, I think claims should stay @ L-2, and that's because at L-3, you're barely halfway towards been lynched, so claiming seems a little premature but with so many vote manipulating / double voting etc. I can understand you actually might be a lot closer.

[betiko]

I think claims should be done at l-3

I disagree, I think claims should stay @ L-2, and that's because at L-3, you're barely halfway towards been lynched, so claiming seems a little premature but with so many vote manipulating / double voting etc. I can understand you actually might be a lot closer.

with 2double voters, even with good intentions you could easily mess up. and mostly, if there is a mafia double voter, he can just hammer at l-2 and claim he didn't do it, that it was IB

[new guy1]

I would say let the "votes" add up to where they are at L3 but wait to see if any of the voters had double votes already on when doom gives an official vote count.

[DoomYoshi]

Vote Count


NoSurvivors (1) - new guy1
soundman (2) - kanin usagi, betiko
New guy (1) - jonty
pcm (1) - anon.

Not voting (1) - nendreel, pcm

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Deadline is November 26th.

[jonty125]

I would say let the "votes" add up to where they are at L3 but wait to see if any of the voters had double votes already on when doom gives an official vote count.

I don't quite understand what you're saying? A vote is a vote. Why should a double vote be counted differently?

[Nendreel]

I would say let the "votes" add up to where they are at L3 but wait to see if any of the voters had double votes already on when doom gives an official vote count.

I don't quite understand what you're saying? A vote is a vote. Why should a double vote be counted differently?

Because at this point who and how the double votes are working isn't entirely clear.We seem to have a daily DV and a permanent DV. Depending on alignments, at L-2 scum could potentially force a mislynch without giving themselves away while at L-3 they'd have to be a bit more obvious about it.

[NoSurvivors]

I would say let the "votes" add up to where they are at L3 but wait to see if any of the voters had double votes already on when doom gives an official vote count.

I don't quite understand what you're saying? A vote is a vote. Why should a double vote be counted differently?

If we put someone at l-2 and a mafia DV comes along he can vote out whoever and blame IB, and we cant tell if it IS IB or not.

[vodean]

we could always not vote anyone at all ever and just use FOSes (or use FOSes to move people from L-3 to L-2) to show the pressure without the risk.
e.g. voting FOS on vodean

[DoomYoshi]

I am going to prod everyone tomorrow. I may consider moving the deadline to Tuesday since it seems this weekend has been dead.