Time Warp Mafia Endgame: Town Wins

[new guy1]

Okay jonty, good job, I didnt even realize I was skimming -_-. Also, I love how your case on me comes in when theres pressure on someone else. Lets finish our course of actions on this case before we move onto another, alright?

fastposted.

[Iron Butterfly]

Lets remember the starting point of this drama.

I decided at the last moment to vote gregwolf due to his inactivity. I was the one who put strong pressure on Edocsil. Everything was circumstantial evidence as we had nothing to go on. Towards the end I believed he was Town but he refused to claim so if he was going to be lynched it would be on him. It was after my last post I saw Gregwilf had been completely inactive.

We were pleasantly surprised to find that we had struck Mafia with a lynch. Granted we were lucky but the rational for ME was that I would rather lynch an inactive then let Edocsil be lynched for being stubborn. I followed my gut.

Now on Day two a COMPLETE WIFOM argument was first placed on me that I am somehow Mafia, who threw Greg under the bus for Town cred. I exclaimed the stupidity of this as It was only day one and would be a bad play on Mafias part. there would be nothing to gain as anyone who has an investigative role could check on me. There was no reason other then that to draw attention to Gregwolf if I were mafia. If I was mafia and Edocscil was Town I would have no reason to save Edocsil and expse Greg because for the most part everyone else would have been complicit in Edocsils lynch.

The second WIFOM has been put forth by Betiko that now Edoccil is mafia and I saved him and threw Greg under the bus. My part in this fiasco is my PM telling Betiko to "look at the game". I wanted to save Edocscil or at least take the pressure off of him....I even said so on the forum.

Now Betiko has turned it into one big conspiracy theory with a complete WIFOM argument.

You have to except that 1) I am mafia and Greg was mafia and I threw him under the bus when there was absolutely no reason to OR 2) Myself, Greg and Edocsil are mafia and without communication devised this genius of a plan so I could look good.

OR you can except I am Town. Put pressure on Edocsil for a claim and saw at the last minute that Gregwolf was inactive and when he did respond ddi not help his cause.

I explained why I changed my secrete vote from PCM to Betiko. If you don't agree with it tuff. My two votes will be on Betiko. I can easily remove them.

I also stated before that if I am lynched for this stupidity it will be no loss in the long run as it is day two. I would have mostly my self to blame. However its interesting watching people crawl out of the woodwork to throw in their two cents after the fact.

[Iron Butterfly]

IB, i would suggest not messing around with your anon vote. So long as I actually see it on Bet, I am game to follow. Also FOS PCM on similar grounds to Bet. IB's action was not worth a vote.

good. Then if you reread tell me where is my vote then.

Doom is not like room service where you PM him and he states, "right away sir"

I have put in my vote and told him to put my secrete vote on you as well.

Its my passive aggressive way of telling you how I feel about your WIFOM argument and play. Before ypu stomp off...It can easily be removed.

[betiko]

Lets remember the starting point of this drama.

I decided at the last moment to vote gregwolf due to his inactivity. I was the one who put strong pressure on Edocsil. Everything was circumstantial evidence as we had nothing to go on. Towards the end I believed he was Town but he refused to claim so if he was going to be lynched it would be on him. It was after my last post I saw Gregwilf had been completely inactive.

We were pleasantly surprised to find that we had struck Mafia with a lynch. Granted we were lucky but the rational for ME was that I would rather lynch an inactive then let Edocsil be lynched for being stubborn. I followed my gut.

Now on Day two a COMPLETE WIFOM argument was first placed on me that I am somehow Mafia, who threw Greg under the bus for Town cred. I exclaimed the stupidity of this as It was only day one and would be a bad play on Mafias part. there would be nothing to gain as anyone who has an investigative role could check on me. There was no reason other then that to draw attention to Gregwolf if I were mafia. If I was mafia and Edocscil was Town I would have no reason to save Edocsil and expse Greg because for the most part everyone else would have been complicit in Edocsils lynch.

The second WIFOM has been put forth by Betiko that now Edoccil is mafia and I saved him and threw Greg under the bus. My part in this fiasco is my PM telling Betiko to "look at the game". I wanted to save Edocscil or at least take the pressure off of him....I even said so on the forum.

Now Betiko has turned it into one big conspiracy theory with a complete WIFOM argument.

You have to except that 1) I am mafia and Greg was mafia and I threw him under the bus when there was absolutely no reason to OR 2) Myself, Greg and Edocsil are mafia and without communication devised this genius of a plan so I could look good.

OR you can except I am Town. Put pressure on Edocsil for a claim and saw at the last minute that Gregwolf was inactive and when he did respond ddi not help his cause.

I explained why I changed my secrete vote from PCM to Betiko. If you don't agree with it tuff. My two votes will be on Betiko. I can easily remove them.

I also stated before that if I am lynched for this stupidity it will be no loss in the long run as it is day two. I would have mostly my self to blame. However its interesting watching people crawl out of the woodwork to throw in their two cents after the fact.

oh well looks like you are getting all worked out and didn't read my last posts adressed to you corectly. I think it was NOS who threw in the eventuality that you still had a chance to be scum, the conversation went on and I gave my opinion, that I do think this is not excluded, even if a bit unlikely. In that scenario, where have I said that edoc was scum?? this is ridiculous. The scenario was just you and greg being scum and you throwing greg under the bus cause it was turning you vs edoc at the end of day 1. This to win town cred. Believe it or not, I do think it would've been a good mafia play. A very risky one but a good one in the long run.

"I explained why I changed my secrete vote from PCM to Betiko" -> interesting. I thought it had never been on PCM but that you threw it on NOS.

IB, i would suggest not messing around with your anon vote. So long as I actually see it on Bet, I am game to follow. Also FOS PCM on similar grounds to Bet. IB's action was not worth a vote.

good. Then if you reread tell me where is my vote then.

Doom is not like room service where you PM him and he states, "right away sir"

I have put in my vote and told him to put my secrete vote on you as well.

Its my passive aggressive way of telling you how I feel about your WIFOM argument and play. Before ypu stomp off...It can easily be removed.

what the hell are you talking about?? That post is adressed to edoc who is skimming. PCM and vodean voted for you, not PCM and me. Therefore I ask edoc to have a better look at things before telling nonesense, I guess you should too.

[Iron Butterfly]

You didn't vote but you helped opened the can of worms. NOS first and then you expanded on it in another direction.My actions did as well with the PM.

Now we were splitting hairs with my double vote.

If you believe your case vote for it or the theory I am mafia then vote for it. If you do not believe it then say so and be done with it so I know where you stand. You either believe it or you don't.

[betiko]

You didn't vote but you helped opened the can of worms. NOS first and then you expanded on it in another direction.My actions did as well with the PM.

Now we were splitting hairs with my double vote.

If you believe your case vote for it or the theory I am mafia then vote for it. If you do not believe it then say so and be done with it so I know where you stand. You either believe it or you don't.

dude:

1) NOS talks about a possibility that did go through my mind. I exposed it and also exposed the fact that you curiously PMd me and only me to go check the thread as if there was a major emergency (around 24H left), all this because you suddenly came up with the gregwolf case.

2) You give your claim which I would rather believe, but then you mess up. You tell all of us a lie when comes the moment to prove that you are a double voter, and supposedly vote PCM. The vote count shows an anonymous vote on NOS. "oh yeah, I got paranoid and thought it would be much better to vote for someone else without telling". Since you did that without backing your story previously, what could possibly look uglier than that?

3) You now say you switched your anonymous vote from PCM to me. What the hell? You've alread said the vote was casted on NOS not on PCM, now you're mixing up the story???

Do you realize that that's 3 very strange things you did? I think there is something about the vote mechanics you are lying about and you don't want to reveal for some reason. Either that you don't know how it goes, either that you are day 6 and it is day 6 and there is something you don't want to explain.

[DoomYoshi]

Vote Count


NoSurvivors (1) - new guy1
soundman (2) - kanin usagi, betiko
Iron butterfly (1) - pancake
New guy (1) - jonty

Not voting (1) - nendreel,

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Deadline is November 26th.

[edocsil]

You are right bet critisism =/= vote. I will vote PCM for placing a vote on that ludicris case vs IB

[Iron Butterfly]

You didn't vote but you helped opened the can of worms. NOS first and then you expanded on it in another direction.My actions did as well with the PM.

Now we were splitting hairs with my double vote.

If you believe your case vote for it or the theory I am mafia then vote for it. If you do not believe it then say so and be done with it so I know where you stand. You either believe it or you don't.

dude:

1) NOS talks about a possibility that did go through my mind. I exposed it and also exposed the fact that you curiously PMd me and only me to go check the thread as if there was a major emergency (around 24H left), all this because you suddenly came up with the gregwolf case.

2) You give your claim which I would rather believe, but then you mess up. You tell all of us a lie when comes the moment to prove that you are a double voter, and supposedly vote PCM. The vote count shows an anonymous vote on NOS. "oh yeah, I got paranoid and thought it would be much better to vote for someone else without telling". Since you did that without backing your story previously, what could possibly look uglier than that?

3) You now say you switched your anonymous vote from PCM to me. What the hell? You've alread said the vote was casted on NOS not on PCM, now you're mixing up the story???

Do you realize that that's 3 very strange things you did? I think there is something about the vote mechanics you are lying about and you don't want to reveal for some reason. Either that you don't know how it goes, either that you are day 6 and it is day 6 and there is something you don't want to explain.

There is nothing wrong with the mechanics of my voting. I just made the choice at the last minute to put my vote on NOS instead of PCM. NOW I have told you I am putting two on you as you will see the next vote count. If you believe I am mafia and that I am lying then it goes back to our original logic.

1) I am mafia and I threw Greg under the bus when there was no need to.
2) I am mafia, Edocsil is mafia and we both threw Greg under the bus, which is ludicrous
3) I am Town, pressured Edocscil for a claim and then voted Greg instead of Edocsil.

[pancakemix]

You are right bet critisism =/= vote. I will vote PCM for placing a vote on that ludicris case vs IB

Beg pardon? He said his vote would go one way, an anonymus vote went another way. Who's to say he was even responsible for that vote? You yourself suggested the possibility of a scum double voter yesterday, so I can't see you having a mind to doubt the possibility. That's not even accounting for the whole PM business, which is a serious breach of the rules and I'm surprised no warning or modkill was handed down.

At this point, it can't be denied that he's got a double vote with the vote on betiko, but he could still be scum (again, your own suggestion opens up that possibility). Granted, that doesn't make it fact, but it doesn't discount it. Unless, that is, you know something we don't. Matter of fact, it seems odd to me you're just willing to follow simply because his vote exists.

@IB: You keep saying "when there was no need to". Why would you say there was no need? Scum always have need of town cred. That's ridiculous to suggest that there would be no value in bussing a scummate.

[Iron Butterfly]

You are right bet critisism =/= vote. I will vote PCM for placing a vote on that ludicris case vs IB

Beg pardon? He said his vote would go one way, an anonymus vote went another way. Who's to say he was even responsible for that vote? You yourself suggested the possibility of a scum double voter yesterday, so I can't see you having a mind to doubt the possibility. That's not even accounting for the whole PM business, which is a serious breach of the rules and I'm surprised no warning or modkill was handed down.

At this point, it can't be denied that he's got a double vote with the vote on betiko, but he could still be scum (again, your own suggestion opens up that possibility). Granted, that doesn't make it fact, but it doesn't discount it. Unless, that is, you know something we don't. Matter of fact, it seems odd to me you're just willing to follow simply because his vote exists.



I stopped reading after your first sentence (well not really but you get the point "He said his vote would go one way, an anonymus vote went another way. Who's to say he was even responsible for that vote?"

So The anon and I voted at the same time without collaboration. Yup makes perfect sense. Just blind luck...maybe ill hit lotto next. If the anon is a fellow mafia who "helped me" we would have to coordinate (and before we go further dont even try to suggest that if I did it with Betiko whats to stop me doing it again. It was poor judgement end of story) or he would have to guess.

If the anon vote is Town well then step forward and call me a liar so you can lynch me. They wont because if that happens I flip Town and one more mafia will go down next day.

@IB: You keep saying "when there was no need to". Why would you say there was no need? Scum always have need of town cred. That's ridiculous to suggest that there would be no value in bussing a scummate.

Ive explained this as well. You are comparing two completely different scenarios and trying to muddyy the waters further.

Town cred is all fine and dandy and does help, however there is a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it. There is the right time to do it and a wrong time. It would be extremely poor strategy at this point of the game within the scenario we are speaking of. Why did you bring a bus driver into the mix, which has no bearing on the argument other then to confuse and misinterpret what happened?

[Iron Butterfly]

I screwed up the quote.

Read from halfway up the quote.

[Iron Butterfly]

Unvote Vote PCM

My anon stays for now, which shows I can split my vote as well.

[pancakemix]

I've acknowledged you have a double vote. I'm saying it doesn't mean you're town. With the NOS vote it wouldn't have to be dumb luck, because the theoretical vote owner could do what he darn well pleases.

I see very few downsides to advocating the lynch of a scummate you think isn't going to contribute. He's dead in the water at that point already. That's one good reason right there to do it apart from town cred. You see, you say it would be bad strategy to do this, but you don't elaborate on how.

I meant "bussing" in the sense of "throwing under the bus". Sorry for the confusion.

[jonty125]

You are right bet critisism =/= vote. I will vote PCM for placing a vote on that ludicris case vs IB

Why PCM over vodean?

Okay jonty, good job, I didnt even realize I was skimming -_-. Also, I love how your case on me comes in when theres pressure on someone else. Lets finish our course of actions on this case before we move onto another, alright?

fastposted.

Does it really matter, when I post a case, we can discuss two things at once. If it's not good enough for now, we can comeback later.

[edocsil]

You are right bet critisism =/= vote. I will vote PCM for placing a vote on that ludicris case vs IB

Beg pardon? He said his vote would go one way, an anonymus vote went another way. Who's to say he was even responsible for that vote? You yourself suggested the possibility of a scum double voter yesterday, so I can't see you having a mind to doubt the possibility. That's not even accounting for the whole PM business, which is a serious breach of the rules and I'm surprised no warning or modkill was handed down.

At this point, it can't be denied that he's got a double vote with the vote on betiko, but he could still be scum (again, your own suggestion opens up that possibility). Granted, that doesn't make it fact, but it doesn't discount it. Unless, that is, you know something we don't. Matter of fact, it seems odd to me you're just willing to follow simply because his vote exists.

Yes, yes, IB did something foolish. He shouldn't have done it for formalities respect if nothing else. I agree that the PM was a serious infraction, but only worth a warning imo. You jumped on IB when the odds of him not being a double voter were slim to none, and you know that. I think it was a sloppy case, and indicative of you paying less attention here then you should. I have a few other META/WIFOMY reasons that I would like to pressure you in addition to the this action, but I can't cite them due to the fact that the conclusions are drawn from ongoing games.

Also, scum doublevoters are dicey for balance at best. You know this. I shouldn't have even implied that they could exist, I know better than that.

@ jonty Vodean doesn't know better, I expect him to do stupid retaliatory crap and jump on dumb wagons.

[Iron Butterfly]

I've acknowledged you have a double vote. I'm saying it doesn't mean you're town. With the NOS vote it wouldn't have to be dumb luck, because the theoretical vote owner could do what he darn well pleases.
It makes no sense whatsoever. You've acknowledged I'm a double voter but say that I could still be mafia. if you think I'm mafia then your logic dictates I threw Greg under the bus. If that is the case then why did you not participate with your suspicions about me being mafia UNTIL you became involved with the vote? You were dead silent up to that point.

I see very few downsides to advocating the lynch of a scummate you think isn't going to contribute. He's dead in the water at that point already. That's one good reason right there to do it apart from town cred. You see, you say it would be bad strategy to do this, but you don't elaborate on how.

I meant "bussing" in the sense of "throwing under the bus". Sorry for the confusion.

Greg was not dead in the water UNTIL I called him on his inactivity. He even said he was monitoring the game. He would have flown under the radar as Edocscil was lynched so its not like his ship was sinking and I jumped on him to look good. If I were mafia there would be no reason to throw Greg under the bus as Edocsil was most likely going to be lynched.

What I find scummy is you keep misrepresenting the information provided to make it into something it is not.

[Nendreel]

I'm going to have to agree with IB, I don't think he was throwing GW under a bus. The final vote count was 4 on GW and 3 on Edoc. IB could have reasonably unvoted without looking scummy and at the same time put edoc up for a chance lynch.

Although why GW didn't throw a vote on edoc is another mystery...

[pancakemix]

It makes no sense whatsoever. You've acknowledged I'm a double voter but say that I could still be mafia. if you think I'm mafia then your logic dictates I threw Greg under the bus. If that is the case then why did you not participate with your suspicions about me being mafia UNTIL you became involved with the vote? You were dead silent up to that point.

November 15th was a Thursday, I have class literally from 9 to 9 on Thursdays. I have very little time to dedicate to CC then. So no, I didn't have time to voice my concerns within a 24-hour period.

Greg was not dead in the water UNTIL I called him on his inactivity. He even said he was monitoring the game. He would have flown under the radar as Edocscil was lynched so its not like his ship was sinking and I jumped on him to look good. If I were mafia there would be no reason to throw Greg under the bus as Edocsil was most likely going to be lynched.

What I find scummy is you keep misrepresenting the information provided to make it into something it is not.

You may not have intended to throw him under initially. You might have just tried to get him to say something, at which point he made his own bed and you just rolled with it. Even just pressuring him into activity is a way to make you look good.

[soundman]

no soundman, it was 2,5 days left out of 7

and yeah what's up with nos.... he's trying very hard to be targeted skimming, never voting and openly scummarining?

No betiko, it wasn't. How about you go take another look? The vote count before my post clearly states that there were only two days until deadline. And you even posted right after the count saying almost the same thing I did! Here's the link to that vote count. http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=213&t=180800&start=75#p3955591

I'm going to wait, but IB, the way you played your double vote seems like a pile of bullcrap. Give a reasonable explanation, because i don't see any.

He gave his reason, what more could he say?

Vote Betiko. You have been skimming, posting illogical posts (at least IMO) and contradicting yourself.

Fastposted.

here is the timing of your post on my browser:
by soundman on 14 Nov 2012, 02:15
here is the timing of doom's deadline on my browser:
Postby DoomYoshi on 16 Nov 2012, 07:20

that's 2 days and 5h. A bit less than 2,5 days as I said and a bit more than 1,5 days as you said. Shall we call it even as I'm 7h wrong and you are 17h wrong?

Can you quote what you call skimming and posting illogical stuff appart from that "case" and where I have been contradicting myself? thank you!

Since you obviously can't use a link I'll quote the posts for you. Here is Doom's count where he clearly says two days left:

Vote Count
gregwolf121 (1) - pancakemix
Kanin Usagi (1) - edocsil
vodean (2) - ghostly447, betiko, edoc
Nendreel (1) - soundman
Ghostly (1) - new guy1
soundman (1) - Nendreel

Not Voting - Iron Butterfly, NoSurvivors, gregwolf121, vodean, jonty125, Kanin

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch (or a majority at deadline).
Deadline is Thursday. (2 days left)

6 players without a vote.
This means 9 players agree to have vodean lynched on Thursday.

Now here is my post eight posts later:

Unvote. Well no one has done anything suspicious yet so that leaves us with a random lynch. It's looking like Vodean is going to be the target at this point. I say if he has an important role then he should claim.

What don't you understand about that? Clearly less than two days till deadline when I posted that. That is why I have you for skimming. Now here is the contradiction part:

Time is starting to slow down things.

we got 2 days left and obviously everyone is avoiding to say anything.. why not make vode claim instead of getting him lynched on thursday if things stay this way?

You say "why not have vodean claim?" right after the vote count. Then several posts later I said something very similar and now your on me for it. When you said the same thing!

[betiko]

no soundman, it was 2,5 days left out of 7

and yeah what's up with nos.... he's trying very hard to be targeted skimming, never voting and openly scummarining?

No betiko, it wasn't. How about you go take another look? The vote count before my post clearly states that there were only two days until deadline. And you even posted right after the count saying almost the same thing I did! Here's the link to that vote count. http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=213&t=180800&start=75#p3955591

I'm going to wait, but IB, the way you played your double vote seems like a pile of bullcrap. Give a reasonable explanation, because i don't see any.

He gave his reason, what more could he say?

Vote Betiko. You have been skimming, posting illogical posts (at least IMO) and contradicting yourself.

Fastposted.

here is the timing of your post on my browser:
by soundman on 14 Nov 2012, 02:15
here is the timing of doom's deadline on my browser:
Postby DoomYoshi on 16 Nov 2012, 07:20

that's 2 days and 5h. A bit less than 2,5 days as I said and a bit more than 1,5 days as you said. Shall we call it even as I'm 7h wrong and you are 17h wrong?

Can you quote what you call skimming and posting illogical stuff appart from that "case" and where I have been contradicting myself? thank you!

Since you obviously can't use a link I'll quote the posts for you. Here is Doom's count where he clearly says two days left:

Vote Count
gregwolf121 (1) - pancakemix
Kanin Usagi (1) - edocsil
vodean (2) - ghostly447, betiko, edoc
Nendreel (1) - soundman
Ghostly (1) - new guy1
soundman (1) - Nendreel

Not Voting - Iron Butterfly, NoSurvivors, gregwolf121, vodean, jonty125, Kanin

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch (or a majority at deadline).
Deadline is Thursday. (2 days left)

6 players without a vote.
This means 9 players agree to have vodean lynched on Thursday.

Now here is my post eight posts later:

Unvote. Well no one has done anything suspicious yet so that leaves us with a random lynch. It's looking like Vodean is going to be the target at this point. I say if he has an important role then he should claim.

What don't you understand about that? Clearly less than two days till deadline when I posted that. That is why I have you for skimming. Now here is the contradiction part:

Time is starting to slow down things.

we got 2 days left and obviously everyone is avoiding to say anything.. why not make vode claim instead of getting him lynched on thursday if things stay this way?

You say "why not have vodean claim?" right after the vote count. Then several posts later I said something very similar and now your on me for it. When you said the same thing!

fucking hell, you just won't let go on your stupid comment will you? doom said 2 days because he was not going to say 2,4 days left or whatever, it was over 2 days not under 2 days and that's not even the point. We are both wrong on the timing since it's somewhere in between what we both said (even if I'm 10h closer than you..). Now will you stop cutting hair there because you are not getting anywhere there, I won't either.
The point is not that you wanted vodean to claim either, the point is that you wanted him t claim only if he had an important role which is very scummy in my opinion and in spite of your explanation. My vote stays.

[DoomYoshi]

Vote Count


NoSurvivors (1) - new guy1
soundman (2) - kanin usagi, betiko
Iron butterfly (1) - pancake
New guy (1) - jonty
pcm (1) - anon.

Not voting (1) - nendreel,

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Deadline is November 26th.

[ghostly447]

2 anon's. Edocsil was prob wrong about his assumption there were no mafia double voters.

[edocsil]

2 anon's. Edocsil was prob wrong about his assumption there were no mafia double voters.

Well. That is quite curious.

[ghostly447]

2 anon's. Edocsil was prob wrong about his assumption there were no mafia double voters.

Well. That is quite curious.

IMO, there wouldnt be 2 anon voters that were both town. There must be one for each day player that plays on their day, and a double voting mafia.