Time Warp Mafia Endgame: Town Wins

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Day Deadlines?

1 Week Day
11
55%
2 Week Day
2
10%
10 Day Day
5
25%
1 Week Deadline after conversation dies down
2
10%
 
Total votes : 20

Re: Time Warp Mafia [12/13] Day Six: LYLO?

Postby edocsil on Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:45 am

pancakemix wrote:
edocsil wrote:You are right bet critisism =/= vote. I will vote PCM for placing a vote on that ludicris case vs IB


Beg pardon? He said his vote would go one way, an anonymus vote went another way. Who's to say he was even responsible for that vote? You yourself suggested the possibility of a scum double voter yesterday, so I can't see you having a mind to doubt the possibility. That's not even accounting for the whole PM business, which is a serious breach of the rules and I'm surprised no warning or modkill was handed down.

At this point, it can't be denied that he's got a double vote with the vote on betiko, but he could still be scum (again, your own suggestion opens up that possibility). Granted, that doesn't make it fact, but it doesn't discount it. Unless, that is, you know something we don't. Matter of fact, it seems odd to me you're just willing to follow simply because his vote exists.


Yes, yes, IB did something foolish. He shouldn't have done it for formalities respect if nothing else. I agree that the PM was a serious infraction, but only worth a warning imo. You jumped on IB when the odds of him not being a double voter were slim to none, and you know that. I think it was a sloppy case, and indicative of you paying less attention here then you should. I have a few other META/WIFOMY reasons that I would like to pressure you in addition to the this action, but I can't cite them due to the fact that the conclusions are drawn from ongoing games.

Also, scum doublevoters are dicey for balance at best. You know this. I shouldn't have even implied that they could exist, I know better than that.

@ jonty Vodean doesn't know better, I expect him to do stupid retaliatory crap and jump on dumb wagons.
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Re: Time Warp Mafia [12/13] Day Six: LYLO?

Postby Iron Butterfly on Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:54 am

pancakemix wrote:I've acknowledged you have a double vote. I'm saying it doesn't mean you're town. With the NOS vote it wouldn't have to be dumb luck, because the theoretical vote owner could do what he darn well pleases.
It makes no sense whatsoever. You've acknowledged I'm a double voter but say that I could still be mafia. if you think I'm mafia then your logic dictates I threw Greg under the bus. If that is the case then why did you not participate with your suspicions about me being mafia UNTIL you became involved with the vote? You were dead silent up to that point.

I see very few downsides to advocating the lynch of a scummate you think isn't going to contribute. He's dead in the water at that point already. That's one good reason right there to do it apart from town cred. You see, you say it would be bad strategy to do this, but you don't elaborate on how.

I meant "bussing" in the sense of "throwing under the bus". Sorry for the confusion.


Greg was not dead in the water UNTIL I called him on his inactivity. He even said he was monitoring the game. He would have flown under the radar as Edocscil was lynched so its not like his ship was sinking and I jumped on him to look good. If I were mafia there would be no reason to throw Greg under the bus as Edocsil was most likely going to be lynched.

What I find scummy is you keep misrepresenting the information provided to make it into something it is not.
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Re: Time Warp Mafia [12/13] Day Six: LYLO?

Postby Nendreel on Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:04 pm

I'm going to have to agree with IB, I don't think he was throwing GW under a bus. The final vote count was 4 on GW and 3 on Edoc. IB could have reasonably unvoted without looking scummy and at the same time put edoc up for a chance lynch.

Although why GW didn't throw a vote on edoc is another mystery...
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Re: Time Warp Mafia [12/13] Day Six: LYLO?

Postby pancakemix on Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:22 pm

It makes no sense whatsoever. You've acknowledged I'm a double voter but say that I could still be mafia. if you think I'm mafia then your logic dictates I threw Greg under the bus. If that is the case then why did you not participate with your suspicions about me being mafia UNTIL you became involved with the vote? You were dead silent up to that point.


November 15th was a Thursday, I have class literally from 9 to 9 on Thursdays. I have very little time to dedicate to CC then. So no, I didn't have time to voice my concerns within a 24-hour period.

Greg was not dead in the water UNTIL I called him on his inactivity. He even said he was monitoring the game. He would have flown under the radar as Edocscil was lynched so its not like his ship was sinking and I jumped on him to look good. If I were mafia there would be no reason to throw Greg under the bus as Edocsil was most likely going to be lynched.

What I find scummy is you keep misrepresenting the information provided to make it into something it is not.


You may not have intended to throw him under initially. You might have just tried to get him to say something, at which point he made his own bed and you just rolled with it. Even just pressuring him into activity is a way to make you look good.
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Re: Time Warp Mafia [12/13] Day Six: LYLO?

Postby soundman on Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:49 pm

betiko wrote:
soundman wrote:
betiko wrote:no soundman, it was 2,5 days left out of 7

and yeah what's up with nos.... he's trying very hard to be targeted skimming, never voting and openly scummarining?

No betiko, it wasn't. How about you go take another look? The vote count before my post clearly states that there were only two days until deadline. And you even posted right after the count saying almost the same thing I did! Here's the link to that vote count. http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=213&t=180800&start=75#p3955591

betiko wrote:I'm going to wait, but IB, the way you played your double vote seems like a pile of bullcrap. Give a reasonable explanation, because i don't see any.

He gave his reason, what more could he say?

Vote Betiko. You have been skimming, posting illogical posts (at least IMO) and contradicting yourself.

Fastposted.


here is the timing of your post on my browser:
by soundman on 14 Nov 2012, 02:15
here is the timing of doom's deadline on my browser:
Postby DoomYoshi on 16 Nov 2012, 07:20

that's 2 days and 5h. A bit less than 2,5 days as I said and a bit more than 1,5 days as you said. Shall we call it even as I'm 7h wrong and you are 17h wrong?

Can you quote what you call skimming and posting illogical stuff appart from that "case" and where I have been contradicting myself? thank you!

Since you obviously can't use a link I'll quote the posts for you. Here is Doom's count where he clearly says two days left:
DoomYoshi wrote:Vote Count
gregwolf121 (1) - pancakemix
Kanin Usagi (1) - edocsil
vodean (2) - ghostly447, betiko, edoc
Nendreel (1) - soundman
Ghostly (1) - new guy1
soundman (1) - Nendreel

Not Voting - Iron Butterfly, NoSurvivors, gregwolf121, vodean, jonty125, Kanin

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch (or a majority at deadline).
Deadline is Thursday. (2 days left)

6 players without a vote.
This means 9 players agree to have vodean lynched on Thursday.

Now here is my post eight posts later:
soundman wrote:Unvote. Well no one has done anything suspicious yet so that leaves us with a random lynch. It's looking like Vodean is going to be the target at this point. I say if he has an important role then he should claim.

What don't you understand about that? Clearly less than two days till deadline when I posted that. That is why I have you for skimming. Now here is the contradiction part:
betiko wrote:
Iron Butterfly wrote:Time is starting to slow down things.


we got 2 days left and obviously everyone is avoiding to say anything.. why not make vode claim instead of getting him lynched on thursday if things stay this way?

You say "why not have vodean claim?" right after the vote count. Then several posts later I said something very similar and now your on me for it. When you said the same thing!
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Re: Time Warp Mafia [12/13] Day Six: LYLO?

Postby betiko on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:33 pm

soundman wrote:
betiko wrote:
soundman wrote:
betiko wrote:no soundman, it was 2,5 days left out of 7

and yeah what's up with nos.... he's trying very hard to be targeted skimming, never voting and openly scummarining?

No betiko, it wasn't. How about you go take another look? The vote count before my post clearly states that there were only two days until deadline. And you even posted right after the count saying almost the same thing I did! Here's the link to that vote count. http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=213&t=180800&start=75#p3955591

betiko wrote:I'm going to wait, but IB, the way you played your double vote seems like a pile of bullcrap. Give a reasonable explanation, because i don't see any.

He gave his reason, what more could he say?

Vote Betiko. You have been skimming, posting illogical posts (at least IMO) and contradicting yourself.

Fastposted.


here is the timing of your post on my browser:
by soundman on 14 Nov 2012, 02:15
here is the timing of doom's deadline on my browser:
Postby DoomYoshi on 16 Nov 2012, 07:20

that's 2 days and 5h. A bit less than 2,5 days as I said and a bit more than 1,5 days as you said. Shall we call it even as I'm 7h wrong and you are 17h wrong?

Can you quote what you call skimming and posting illogical stuff appart from that "case" and where I have been contradicting myself? thank you!

Since you obviously can't use a link I'll quote the posts for you. Here is Doom's count where he clearly says two days left:
DoomYoshi wrote:Vote Count
gregwolf121 (1) - pancakemix
Kanin Usagi (1) - edocsil
vodean (2) - ghostly447, betiko, edoc
Nendreel (1) - soundman
Ghostly (1) - new guy1
soundman (1) - Nendreel

Not Voting - Iron Butterfly, NoSurvivors, gregwolf121, vodean, jonty125, Kanin

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch (or a majority at deadline).
Deadline is Thursday. (2 days left)

6 players without a vote.
This means 9 players agree to have vodean lynched on Thursday.

Now here is my post eight posts later:
soundman wrote:Unvote. Well no one has done anything suspicious yet so that leaves us with a random lynch. It's looking like Vodean is going to be the target at this point. I say if he has an important role then he should claim.

What don't you understand about that? Clearly less than two days till deadline when I posted that. That is why I have you for skimming. Now here is the contradiction part:
betiko wrote:
Iron Butterfly wrote:Time is starting to slow down things.


we got 2 days left and obviously everyone is avoiding to say anything.. why not make vode claim instead of getting him lynched on thursday if things stay this way?

You say "why not have vodean claim?" right after the vote count. Then several posts later I said something very similar and now your on me for it. When you said the same thing!



fucking hell, you just won't let go on your stupid comment will you? doom said 2 days because he was not going to say 2,4 days left or whatever, it was over 2 days not under 2 days and that's not even the point. We are both wrong on the timing since it's somewhere in between what we both said (even if I'm 10h closer than you..). Now will you stop cutting hair there because you are not getting anywhere there, I won't either.
The point is not that you wanted vodean to claim either, the point is that you wanted him t claim only if he had an important role which is very scummy in my opinion and in spite of your explanation. My vote stays.
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Re: Time Warp Mafia [12/13] Day Six: LYLO?

Postby DoomYoshi on Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:15 pm

Vote Count


NoSurvivors (1) - new guy1
soundman (2) - kanin usagi, betiko
Iron butterfly (1) - pancake
New guy (1) - jonty
pcm (1) - anon.

Not voting (1) - nendreel,

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
Deadline is November 26th.
Last edited by DoomYoshi on Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Time Warp Mafia [12/13] Day Six: LYLO?

Postby ghostly447 on Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:20 pm

2 anon's. Edocsil was prob wrong about his assumption there were no mafia double voters.
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Re: Time Warp Mafia [12/13] Day Six: LYLO?

Postby edocsil on Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:45 pm

ghostly447 wrote:2 anon's. Edocsil was prob wrong about his assumption there were no mafia double voters.


Well. That is quite curious.
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Re: Time Warp Mafia [12/13] Day Six: LYLO?

Postby ghostly447 on Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:58 pm

edocsil wrote:
ghostly447 wrote:2 anon's. Edocsil was prob wrong about his assumption there were no mafia double voters.


Well. That is quite curious.


IMO, there wouldnt be 2 anon voters that were both town. There must be one for each day player that plays on their day, and a double voting mafia.
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Re: Time Warp Mafia [12/13] Day Six: LYLO?

Postby betiko on Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:09 pm

edocsil wrote:
ghostly447 wrote:2 anon's. Edocsil was prob wrong about his assumption there were no mafia double voters.


Well. That is quite curious.


no it's not. There was an anon on you yesterday and IB claims it wasn't him. If you believed IB completely how could you assume a second double voter would be impossible?
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Re: Time Warp Mafia [12/13] Day Six: LYLO?

Postby betiko on Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:10 pm

ghostly447 wrote:
edocsil wrote:
ghostly447 wrote:2 anon's. Edocsil was prob wrong about his assumption there were no mafia double voters.


Well. That is quite curious.


IMO, there wouldnt be 2 anon voters that were both town. There must be one for each day player that plays on their day, and a double voting mafia.


or maybe the second double voter is a third party.
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Re: Time Warp Mafia [12/13] Day Six: LYLO?

Postby ghostly447 on Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:12 pm

betiko wrote:
ghostly447 wrote:
edocsil wrote:
ghostly447 wrote:2 anon's. Edocsil was prob wrong about his assumption there were no mafia double voters.


Well. That is quite curious.


IMO, there wouldnt be 2 anon voters that were both town. There must be one for each day player that plays on their day, and a double voting mafia.


or maybe the second double voter is a third party.


That is true.
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Re: Time Warp Mafia [12/13] Day Six: LYLO?

Postby Iron Butterfly on Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:16 pm

"Totally experimental. No guarantees about balance, or even playability."

I would watch how you use the word must as that means you are speaking in absolutes and have the answer. The above quote is Dooms disclaimer for this game. If you read it it is a pretty strong warning.

So do not try to even dictate what something "must" be in this game.

I saw there was another anon yesterday and stated when I claimed that that anon was not mine. So to me it makes perfect sense. Also remember that Greg was a vote supressor and that makes three vote manipulators we are aware of.

This is not a normal game so all theories about what can or can not be is moot as we have NO idea what roles or setup there is.
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Re: Time Warp Mafia [12/13] Day Six: LYLO?

Postby soundman on Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:34 pm

betiko wrote:fucking hell, you just won't let go on your stupid comment will you? doom said 2 days because he was not going to say 2,4 days left or whatever, it was over 2 days not under 2 days and that's not even the point. We are both wrong on the timing since it's somewhere in between what we both said (even if I'm 10h closer than you..). Now will you stop cutting hair there because you are not getting anywhere there, I won't either.
The point is not that you wanted vodean to claim either, the point is that you wanted him t claim only if he had an important role which is very scummy in my opinion and in spite of your explanation. My vote stays.

Can you not read? Can you not think logically? Why should I let go when your vote is still on me?

You can not use any post after mine to justify the timing. It doesn't matter if it ended up being seven days until the day ended. The fact is at that point in time Doom said that there were two days left. As such when I made my post it was less than two days left. You get that? And I'm not the one that brought up this whole timing thing. YOU did. When you tried to use it as a point against me. As such I will continue to argue the point until you get it through your thick skull that you are wrong! Or until I just give up hope that you will see reason.

Second I already explained what I meant by saying "important role". Obviously by bringing it up now you skimmed my explanation. I'm not going to take the time to repeat it. Go back and look at it again. Also it would help if you worked on your grammar. I'm sure I'm not the only one that has trouble figuring out what you're saying.
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Re: Time Warp Mafia [12/13] Day Six: LYLO?

Postby betiko on Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:17 pm

soundman wrote:
betiko wrote:fucking hell, you just won't let go on your stupid comment will you? doom said 2 days because he was not going to say 2,4 days left or whatever, it was over 2 days not under 2 days and that's not even the point. We are both wrong on the timing since it's somewhere in between what we both said (even if I'm 10h closer than you..). Now will you stop cutting hair there because you are not getting anywhere there, I won't either.
The point is not that you wanted vodean to claim either, the point is that you wanted him t claim only if he had an important role which is very scummy in my opinion and in spite of your explanation. My vote stays.

Can you not read? Can you not think logically? Why should I let go when your vote is still on me?

You can not use any post after mine to justify the timing. It doesn't matter if it ended up being seven days until the day ended. The fact is at that point in time Doom said that there were two days left. As such when I made my post it was less than two days left. You get that? And I'm not the one that brought up this whole timing thing. YOU did. When you tried to use it as a point against me. As such I will continue to argue the point until you get it through your thick skull that you are wrong! Or until I just give up hope that you will see reason.

Second I already explained what I meant by saying "important role". Obviously by bringing it up now you skimmed my explanation. I'm not going to take the time to repeat it. Go back and look at it again. Also it would help if you worked on your grammar. I'm sure I'm not the only one that has trouble figuring out what you're saying.



I'm not sure who's being stubborn and thick here. I'm not going back either on what I have already explained and that you fail to understand.
About my grammar, come back when you'll be able to express yourself in other languages. Expecting me to express myself as well as a born and raised anglophone as you all are proves your sense of empathy.
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Re: Time Warp Mafia [12/13] Day Six: LYLO?

Postby pancakemix on Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:32 am

No need to question anyone's ability to think or speak. Keep it cool, guys.

Game relevant post to follow.
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Re: Time Warp Mafia [12/13] Day Six: LYLO?

Postby pancakemix on Wed Nov 21, 2012 7:52 am

I must say, I find that anon vote on me interesting. It has a few implications, but the most important among them: IB isn't scum.

unvote

Still a mystery, however, is who is responsible for it. Do we think it's the same perso who voted edoc on D1?
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Re: Time Warp Mafia [12/13] Day Six: LYLO?

Postby Kanin Usagi on Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:13 am

pancakemix wrote:I must say, I find that anon vote on me interesting. It has a few implications, but the most important among them: IB isn't scum.

unvote

Still a mystery, however, is who is responsible for it. Do we think it's the same perso who voted edoc on D1?

Unless there's a third vote manipulator in play, then probably. But damn this game is confusing. V_V
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Re: Time Warp Mafia [12/13] Day Six: LYLO?

Postby jonty125 on Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:40 am

ghostly447 wrote:2 anon's. Edocsil was prob wrong about his assumption there were no mafia double voters.


Pretty bold statment to make. I'd be surprised if mafia DIDN'T; as there seems to be a lot of vote manipulation roles.
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Re: Time Warp Mafia [12/13] Day Six: LYLO?

Postby Nendreel on Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:49 am

In a game with potential back to back Days it would make sense for maf to have some vote manipulation abilities to try and cause mislynches in order to compensate for a lack of night kills.
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Re: Time Warp Mafia [12/13] Day Six: LYLO?

Postby NoSurvivors on Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:46 am

So, IB isn't a mafia double voter, as far as we know, but didnt vode say he was a double voter?

-3 minute interval-

vodean wrote:I am D1. therefore i support the theory that on your day you get to double-vote. i also disagree that only mafia are nights. think about it. if we mislynch, then the mafia kill a townie (day), moving us into another night phase where the mafia kill another day. and so on and so forth. that would only be survivable if town was seriously OP, or if there were a large number of competing scum factions, which would screw town over. so there must be night-townies.


found it.. so vode said there might be double voting each day... but you guys think mafia has some sort of manipulator role going on? So does that mean that if say IB votes his anon on jonty and the mafia can pull it off him and put it on kanin (for example)?
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Re: Time Warp Mafia [12/13] Day Six: LYLO?

Postby Iron Butterfly on Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:02 pm

NoSurvivors wrote:So, IB isn't a mafia double voter, as far as we know, but didnt vode say he was a double voter?

-3 minute interval-

vodean wrote:I am D1. therefore i support the theory that on your day you get to double-vote. i also disagree that only mafia are nights. think about it. if we mislynch, then the mafia kill a townie (day), moving us into another night phase where the mafia kill another day. and so on and so forth. that would only be survivable if town was seriously OP, or if there were a large number of competing scum factions, which would screw town over. so there must be night-townies.


found it.. so vode said there might be double voting each day... but you guys think mafia has some sort of manipulator role going on? So does that mean that if say IB votes his anon on jonty and the mafia can pull it off him and put it on kanin (for example)?


"I am day 1 therefor I support the theory that on your day you get to double vote."

That is pretty much an admittance of being the day one double voter. He supports the theory because he is day 1. On day one there was a double voter. Why not just come out and say that is what happened?

There is also a difference between a vote manipulater and double voter. All I can do is vote. one regular and one secrete, though I no longer have the right to a secrete vote for obvious reasons. Greg was a vote manipulator as he could suppress a vote.

I have stated before for several reasons, the main one being Dooms disclaimer, that I beleive the game is all about the voting. Im sure there are some night actions but on the whole....
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Re: Time Warp Mafia [12/13] Day Six: LYLO?

Postby ghostly447 on Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:50 pm

jonty125 wrote:
ghostly447 wrote:2 anon's. Edocsil was prob wrong about his assumption there were no mafia double voters.


Pretty bold statment to make. I'd be surprised if mafia DIDN'T; as there seems to be a lot of vote manipulation roles.


Pretty easy to come about and finally say you think there is a mafia double voter when 90% of the evidence points in that direction.

Pretty bold statment to make. I'd be surprised if mafia DIDN'T; as there seems to be a lot of vote manipulation roles.[/quote]

Nendreel wrote:In a game with potential back to back Days it would make sense for maf to have some vote manipulation abilities to try and cause mislynches in order to compensate for a lack of night kills.


Goes for you too.

Thats not to say I havent been quiet either. I just took it as a possibility throughout the entire game and finally have proof that its (more than likely, not positive) 3rd party, or mafia.

Moving on.


pancakemix wrote:
edocsil wrote:You are right bet critisism =/= vote. I will vote PCM for placing a vote on that ludicris case vs IB


Beg pardon? He said his vote would go one way, an anonymus vote went another way. Who's to say he was even responsible for that vote? You yourself suggested the possibility of a scum double voter yesterday, so I can't see you having a mind to doubt the possibility. That's not even accounting for the whole PM business, which is a serious breach of the rules and I'm surprised no warning or modkill was handed down.

At this point, it can't be denied that he's got a double vote with the vote on betiko, but he could still be scum (again, your own suggestion opens up that possibility). Granted, that doesn't make it fact, but it doesn't discount it. Unless, that is, you know something we don't. Matter of fact, it seems odd to me you're just willing to follow simply because his vote exists.

@IB: You keep saying "when there was no need to". Why would you say there was no need? Scum always have need of town cred. That's ridiculous to suggest that there would be no value in bussing a scummate.


Call it a gut feeling, but the first part of this post doesnt sit right with me. This just seems to be more of a post of "Well mafia got the shit end of the stick there. A modkill should have probably taken place because it was earned, and now I am being pressured and need to throw attention away right quick". Honestly, I was thinking it was an off post when I first read it, wanted to wait for a bit to see if it still didnt sit right, and just now remembered to go back and look. It still doesnt sit right, but for now I will only FOS PCM because it is not a defend able point.
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Re: Time Warp Mafia [12/13] Day Six: LYLO?

Postby betiko on Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:54 pm

Iron Butterfly wrote:
NoSurvivors wrote:So, IB isn't a mafia double voter, as far as we know, but didnt vode say he was a double voter?

-3 minute interval-

vodean wrote:I am D1. therefore i support the theory that on your day you get to double-vote. i also disagree that only mafia are nights. think about it. if we mislynch, then the mafia kill a townie (day), moving us into another night phase where the mafia kill another day. and so on and so forth. that would only be survivable if town was seriously OP, or if there were a large number of competing scum factions, which would screw town over. so there must be night-townies.


found it.. so vode said there might be double voting each day... but you guys think mafia has some sort of manipulator role going on? So does that mean that if say IB votes his anon on jonty and the mafia can pull it off him and put it on kanin (for example)?


"I am day 1 therefor I support the theory that on your day you get to double vote."

That is pretty much an admittance of being the day one double voter. He supports the theory because he is day 1. On day one there was a double voter. Why not just come out and say that is what happened?

There is also a difference between a vote manipulater and double voter. All I can do is vote. one regular and one secrete, though I no longer have the right to a secrete vote for obvious reasons. Greg was a vote manipulator as he could suppress a vote.

I have stated before for several reasons, the main one being Dooms disclaimer, that I beleive the game is all about the voting. Im sure there are some night actions but on the whole....



I don't know about that, after the scene I just came up with that idea but it doesn't seem to fit anymore with you being day 6 and a "natural" double voter and no extra vote for your day (unless you do have 3 votes today and the anons come from you? unlikely)
I thought with the day 1 double vote that on your day, your vote would count double in spite of you. I think it was just a coincidence regarding vodean, as the double vote mechanic seem to be something you pm doom about and also that you can place your 2 votes on 2 different people. But maybe the 2 double voters have different mechanics..
If vodean double voted on day 1 I don't think it was intentional.
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