[Official] Holiday Mafia - Game Over!

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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - Game Over!

Postby Nendreel on Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:04 pm

Hey all, sorry I had to bail on the game, but school was running me through the wringer for a few weeks and I just couldn't keep playing. Though I did read through the thread later to see how things turned out.
Good job mafia. I hadn't thought there would be 4 mafia, especially after all the TP in the game.

Iron Butterfly wrote:TOWN you made Mafias job easy...

first the cop coming out day one was huge and may have cost you the game. Second you guys pretty much telegraphed everything you were going to do. We did not have to guess...we knew who was who. It was easy pickings. We knew who witt gifted, we knew who mitt was, we knew who to block and we knew who to steal from.


It was D2 actually, and believe me, I agonized over revealing my role. The biggest problem was that nobody was reporting anything, so it was either up to me to provide direction or do nothing (which may have also cast doubt when I revealed my reports later).
It was a tough choice, and in this case I chose wrong. Sorry Gustaf.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - Game Over!

Postby Iron Butterfly on Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:53 pm

The thing is no one but the cop at this point would have anything to report. The only true PRs were cop and doc for Town. By revealing a third party, which in actually revealed three only served to make our jobs easier on who to target.

While I understand why you did what you did it is better to wait and let things play out. Hind sight is 20'20 but by coming out of hiding for a third party you lost the chance to target scum.... :D till the end of course.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - Game Over!

Postby betiko on Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:21 pm

I kind of disagree here, although for the 2 things I will comment I agree that the arguments on both ends stand.

first, I think that chuck's plays weren't bad at all, it just didn't pay off for odd reasons. He took a massive brownie point gamble, so unlikely for a mafia to do that if it worked there would've been no way of suspecting him after me/mets would've been killed/lynched. You guys were 4 scums and after a massclaim his ability became useless, I think it was worth the shot. It didn't prevent you guys from winning...

second about nendreel. Day 2 was the only momentum where we could've only been a town cop given the gift thing. I agree that in any other given game it wouldn't ve been the best play, but you have to understand that from our point of view stolen gifts could be used by mafia...
The cop was therefore 99% a town telling the truth s there was almost no way a mafia could know about a third party.

But yes IB, the bad reads I have on you were meant to be a compliment! ;) (althoguh it's the first time you're mafia in one of our games, and other times when you were town I've seen you as a very plausible threat, I had to give you some slack for once and I guess you were well aware of it)

But yes, as the ones that have played me know, I tend to play "bad cop" as I get frustrated by too conservative plays. I tend to be provocative in mafia games to get something going on, otherwise I think things get a bit boring.. I know it's not the safest way to play and that it can bring lots of backfire, but that makes the game more interesting...
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - Game Over!

Postby thechuck51 on Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:30 pm

I think valid arguments can be made for it being a good play or an awful one. Fortunately it worked out in the end.


Shameless plug:

Now that this game is over, if you guys are looking for some more mafia action check out http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=213&t=187216#p4089287
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - Game Over!

Postby betiko on Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:48 pm

thechuck51 wrote:I think valid arguments can be made for it being a good play or an awful one. Fortunately it worked out in the end.


Shameless plug:

Now that this game is over, if you guys are looking for some more mafia action check out http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=213&t=187216#p4089287


you're tempting me! :lol: this was my last mafia game on, I am a huge fan of the wire but I kind of wanted a little break from mafia games as I've always had one going on in the past 6 month or so...
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - Game Over!

Postby Iron Butterfly on Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:05 pm

betiko wrote:I kind of disagree here, although for the 2 things I will comment I agree that the arguments on both ends stand.

first, I think that chuck's plays weren't bad at all, it just didn't pay off for odd reasons. He took a massive brownie point gamble, so unlikely for a mafia to do that if it worked there would've been no way of suspecting him after me/mets would've been killed/lynched. You guys were 4 scums and after a massclaim his ability became useless, I think it was worth the shot. It didn't prevent you guys from winning...

second about nendreel. Day 2 was the only momentum where we could've only been a town cop given the gift thing. I agree that in any other given game it wouldn't ve been the best play, but you have to understand that from our point of view stolen gifts could be used by mafia...
The cop was therefore 99% a town telling the truth s there was almost no way a mafia could know about a third party.

But yes IB, the bad reads I have on you were meant to be a compliment! ;) (althoguh it's the first time you're mafia in one of our games, and other times when you were town I've seen you as a very plausible threat, I had to give you some slack for once and I guess you were well aware of it)

But yes, as the ones that have played me know, I tend to play "bad cop" as I get frustrated by too conservative plays. I tend to be provocative in mafia games to get something going on, otherwise I think things get a bit boring.. I know it's not the safest way to play and that it can bring lots of backfire, but that makes the game more interesting...


I disagree. At the time you were about to be lynched we had 13 people. If we lynched you and got a night kill that would bring it down to 11, three of whom were survivors with a specific win condition and four mafia. We knew who was who. All we would need be to do is lynch a Town and game over.

The three remaining third parties would lose without one of them winning.

Sure we could play what if, and yes it worked out for us in the end, but in that particular point in time not lynching you was a mistake. We were able to salvage it because Witt saved you and flipped Mafia but to not lynch you was silly. Sure its my opinion and we still won....but I honestly believe this game was closer then it should have been,

Perhaps the most interesting thing was what PCM said to me in PM after I was dead. Town lost because they did a speed lynch on you Betiko. After that we needed a night kill and game over.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - Game Over!

Postby betiko on Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:48 pm

wasn't town that speed lynched me. was gustaf+third party+2 mafia.

I'd like to know all the gifting actions from witt and why he chose who. that role was key. On the town side we had witt and nos barely active, keener who was playing his first game... and me playing my first game vs mets and having a crap read on his gamestyle we just had no chance.

but yes, I think looking this way you are correct. you guys should ve lynched me that day. but hey, the game became more interesting because of that! ;)
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - Game Over!

Postby pancakemix on Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:11 am

@IB: Imbalance toward mafia was something I feared as well, and I hoped the gift mechanic would give town some extra juice, because it existed in lieu of actual power roles. The mafia was clearly convincing enough to draw more gifts than I had anticipated, and with NoS, the second most powerful gifter, being inactive. Ultimately it came down to what I wanted flavorwise and what I wanted mechanically. Mechanically, I could cross my fingers but I was locked in on flavor. Slightly larger would have been good, I think. Even just 18 vs. 16.

Also, I LOVED what happened with that runoff. It brought the game to life. Absolutely one of my favorite modding moments was watching that play out.

I'm taking another hiatus from modding, I think. I felt rushed into this one, got burned by my co-mod (again), and have too much to deal with in RL this semester to mod Mafia games. A nice six weeks away will do me some good, and I'm not going away. I'll be about in Forum Games mostly, I think, but a new game, player or mod, isn't in the cards atm (sorry chuck :P )
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - Game Over!

Postby Iron Butterfly on Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:08 am

LOL I guess I am biased. I hate losing, so when that runoff happened I was gritting my teeth. I couldn't believe people wanted to no lynch again. Knocking out two potential Town votes helped though at a point I really though folks were going to buy MoBs case on me...Har he was pretty spot on even though he was WIFOM arguing.

I really thought i had overplayed my hand when Mob was arguing with me... :D I guess I had more Town cred.

But yes from an observers point of view I'm sure it was exciting.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - Game Over!

Postby betiko on Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:54 am

sorry but what do you mean by runoff? I don't understand what it refers to!

so pcm, what was NOS's role? what was a toymaker?
But yeah one thing that changed the deal is that out of so little amount of town players we had so many inactive/barely actives. It was really hard to influence town to go one way or another. I think you should've made it at least an 19 player game, 12 town vs 4 mafia ratio seems like a minimum to me even if I have no idea of modding.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - Game Over!

Postby MoB Deadly on Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:23 am

Iron Butterfly wrote:LOL I guess I am biased. I hate losing, so when that runoff happened I was gritting my teeth. I couldn't believe people wanted to no lynch again. Knocking out two potential Town votes helped though at a point I really though folks were going to buy MoBs case on me...Har he was pretty spot on even though he was WIFOM arguing.

I really thought i had overplayed my hand when Mob was arguing with me... :D I guess I had more Town cred.

But yes from an observers point of view I'm sure it was exciting.


:lol: :lol: Yeah that was fun. I thought I had you pretty red handed trying to frame me and such, but no one else wanted to jump on you. I was happy that at least Gustaf saw something in our arguments to decide to eventually investigate you.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - Game Over!

Postby rishaed on Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:14 am

Yeah that was the deal :) Betiko v. Mets eventually became Betiko v. Everyone (which logically doesn't help him as much as it did us.) I really though IB was cooked after his few slips at the end of the run-off voting. If anything if you would have had the gifts you probably would have vigged him (I would have). Anyways currently 2-0 on Official games :D
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - Game Over!

Postby anamainiacks on Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:28 am

betiko wrote:sorry but what do you mean by runoff? I don't understand what it refers to!

so pcm, what was NOS's role? what was a toymaker?

Yea, what was NoS's role? This wasn't really answered during the game... And I think they're talking about D3, when the tie between you and superkeener resulted in the 24-hour runoff vote.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - Game Over!

Postby pancakemix on Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:01 pm

Toymaker was a gift giver that could give two gifts per night instead of just 1.

I'll have roles and actions up at some point, but probably not this weekend.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - Game Over!

Postby rishaed on Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:10 pm

pancakemix wrote:@IB: Imbalance toward mafia was something I feared as well, and I hoped the gift mechanic would give town some extra juice, because it existed in lieu of actual power roles. The mafia was clearly convincing enough to draw more gifts than I had anticipated, and with NoS, the second most powerful gifter, being inactive. Ultimately it came down to what I wanted flavorwise and what I wanted mechanically. Mechanically, I could cross my fingers but I was locked in on flavor. Slightly larger would have been good, I think. Even just 18 vs. 16.

Also, I LOVED what happened with that runoff. It brought the game to life. Absolutely one of my favorite modding moments was watching that play out.

I'm taking another hiatus from modding, I think. I felt rushed into this one, got burned by my co-mod (again), and have too much to deal with in RL this semester to mod Mafia games. A nice six weeks away will do me some good, and I'm not going away. I'll be about in Forum Games mostly, I think, but a new game, player or mod, isn't in the cards atm (sorry chuck :P )

Sorry that you keep getting burned >.> I think I'll mod for awhile, but after Jak's mafia I'll probably won't play. I have a few themes I would like to make.
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