[Official] Holiday Mafia - Game Over!

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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby Metsfanmax on Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:55 pm

Ok, thanks for the update Gustaf. I don't think there's anything more useful we can do today, so

vote Iron Butterfly.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby Iron Butterfly on Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:58 pm

Hold off on the lynch. I Can prove I am Town as I was given a day ability.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby Gustaf Wasa on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:29 am

Iron Butterfly wrote:Hold off on the lynch. I Can prove I am Town as I was given a day ability.

Is it Stalling?
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby betiko on Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:45 am

Even if Gustaf is likely telling the truth, I d like at least all game participants to have time to speak. I d like to prove no one else was roleblocked for example so it had to be me, also who got his presents stolen ect...
IB, if you have something to prove your innocence, you are not making it very credible by not telling it naturally and immediately, a bit like mets.
By the way, bad move not to kill anyone last night. You guys couldn't t roleblock, gift steal and kill? :p
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby MoB Deadly on Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:23 am

Gustaf Wasa wrote:
Iron Butterfly wrote:Hold off on the lynch. I Can prove I am Town as I was given a day ability.

Is it Stalling?


He is just going to fog up the game. It is actually better to lynch him now before he can play mind games with us.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby anamainiacks on Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:44 am

Well since he's going to be lynched, I thought I'd just lay the cards on the table.

I gifted IB on the most recent night. Why? Because I do believe nobody has gifted him for the entire game. (Let's be honest, he has done nothing to prove his townie-ness, and all the claimed gifters haven't mentioned him at all.) And if his claim were true, giving him a gift would be a plus for the townies, since he'd be able to trade in as a gift doubler. However if he were scum and used that as a fake claim, he wouldn't be able to trade it in, since he'd only have 1 gift. It was a calculated risk, I admit; but one that could have had the potential to help us.

I don't know if he'd confirm the gifting to make it look like we're in cahoots (if he turns scum), or deny it to try and throw a case onto me. I understand this might throw a great deal of suspicion on me, but I'd rather get this out in the open sooner than later, and have it seem all the more suspicious then.

Also, did nobody get gift stolen tonight? Or was chuck the one with the gift stealing ability? O.o Or is there yet another 3rd party keeping quiet all this while or something?
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby betiko on Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:57 am

i mostly wanna know who got his gift stolen and who got blocked. Chuck said the truth, he's the diviner. Chuck performed the kill on night 3/NOS from the scene. that's the night he supposedly rolecoped mets. what a coincidence..
question, what do we do if ib turns town? doesn't mean gustaf is scum, he could just be an insane cop or he might have been framed... We have all interest in taking tha gamble that this result is correct.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D4 [10/16] No More Toymakers

Postby betiko on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:31 pm

killed/out of the game:

show: jonty

show: superkeener

show: Kanin Usagi

show: Soundman

show: Spiesr

show: NoSurvivors

show: thechuck51

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

claims:

show: nendreel-gustaf

show: betiko

show: Little Witt

show: Mob deadly

show: rishaed

show: edocsil

show: anamainiacks

show: Iron Butterfly

show: Metsfanmax

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

from scenes
show: abominable snowman


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I think I have compiled there all common knowledge. Please add any common knowledge I may have forgotten, or reveal what you did each night. If you think it's best not to, please give your reasons.[/quote]
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - Night 2 [14/16] Unhappy New Y

Postby betiko on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:35 pm

pancakemix wrote:"Come" they told him, "come here, you will be safe". The little boy pondered the invitation for a moment. It seemed suspicious. Then he nodded, and his lamb kept time as he pa-rum-pum-pum-pummed his way through the snow. He had no gift to bring, but his drum would honor those who heard it. But the only pounding that would come would be the pounding of the villain's beating him to death, and another child became a Christmas casualty.

Kanin Usagi, Aaron, The Little Drummer Boy, Town Inspiration has ben killed!

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(Kanin could gift a temporary gift, which would last only for one day/night cycle)

It is now Day 3. You have until Feb. 22 to determine a lynch. With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.



just showing again the night 2 scene, unfortunately we don't know which character performed that kill...
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby Gustaf Wasa on Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:31 pm

Looks like Betiko is pulling out all the stops. Iron Butterfly asked for more time because he has a day action, he says; I guess the day action was to let Betiko talk as much as possible. Their only hope is to get a long discussion started about something other than the fact that Iron Butterfly is Mafia.

IB turned up Mafia in investigation. Can't get away from that one. If we want to have more WIFOM discussions, talk about blocks and gifts and think our hardest about past night kills and lynches and more, we can do it the coming day when we have one less Mafia posting. And then Iron Butterfly can tell us why no one received a gift from him, fifth night in a row. That will be fun!
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby MoB Deadly on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:08 pm

Gustaf Wasa wrote:Looks like Betiko is pulling out all the stops. Iron Butterfly asked for more time because he has a day action, he says; I guess the day action was to let Betiko talk as much as possible. Their only hope is to get a long discussion started about something other than the fact that Iron Butterfly is Mafia.

IB turned up Mafia in investigation. Can't get away from that one. If we want to have more WIFOM discussions, talk about blocks and gifts and think our hardest about past night kills and lynches and more, we can do it the coming day when we have one less Mafia posting. And then Iron Butterfly can tell us why no one received a gift from him, fifth night in a row. That will be fun!


+1

MoB Deadly wrote:He is just going to fog up the game. It is actually better to lynch him now before he can play mind games with us.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby betiko on Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:40 pm

why are you guys rushing things?? there is a big question here: why the hell didn't they performed a night kill.
Gustaf, they might have used it to frame your result. If IB turns town after we lynch him wouldn't it be interesting to hear what he had to say? the more info the better.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby MoB Deadly on Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:35 pm

betiko wrote:why are you guys rushing things?? there is a big question here: why the hell didn't they performed a night kill.
Gustaf, they might have used it to frame your result. If IB turns town after we lynch him wouldn't it be interesting to hear what he had to say? the more info the better.


who cares? It doesn't change anything. It is you, mets, or animaniacs thats left.

So you think they have a mafia framer too? Stealer, Roleblocker, Rolecop, and framer?

Or they could have gotten presents and exchanged it for a framing action?
But even you said it yourself, why not frame either you or mets, they were very top suspects.

The chances of someone framing IB the same night Gustaf decides to investigate him is very slim given the current events I think.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby Gustaf Wasa on Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:38 pm

MoB Deadly speaks the lethal truth. Also:

betiko wrote:why are you guys rushing things?? there is a big question here: why the hell didn't they performed a night kill.
Gustaf, they might have used it to frame your result.

I bet you didn't perform a night kill because I was still protected by the Doc. You probably hoped Doc Metsfanmax would think: "Gustaf is safe, they won't waste their night kill on him, thinking he is protected. So I can protect myself instead." But no, he kept the protection on me.

No roleblock on me: you ran out of gifts to do it with? Doesn't really matter now, though.

"they might have used it to frame your result"

Only one way to find out, eh, Betiko? The more you try to muddy the waters by bringing up anything you can think of, the safer does this lynch appear.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby betiko on Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:51 pm

lol, you 2 really make me laugh. Gather all the info first. The day has just started. I have a theory of what might have happened:

they now only have 2 actions
1. they used the roleblock on me so I could still not prove anything and still make me look scummy.
2. they left gustaf unroleblocked for a few reasons. They have enough gifts for an action for sure, maybe enough for christmas magic. They probably used it to make him temporarily insane or completely insane. That way, knowing that he is more than likely cleared for town, he would either lose all his credit with a fake result on a townie (+that guy would get lynched), either clear a scum. Also this gives a great alibi for mets. He can claim he protected gustaf and that he got targeted that's why there was no NK. pretty good play I have to say.

I bet you no one is going to claim being gift stolen nor roelblocked, because these are the 2 actions they used. Not lynching anyone makes total sense with this scenario.
Ok, so normally now we are at 6/1/2.
My big question is to know if we can perform 2 actions in the same night or not... Last night I tried to perform 2, 1 didn't work. I don't know if I got roleblocked if the message would ve still be sent or not though?
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby betiko on Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:04 pm

oh and vote mets this has lasted long enough. lynch me first if you want but just lynch him next once you see I've been saying the truth all along, can't believe I've caught him on his first post and no one is ever following my lead. 1 town for 1 scum, I'll take it.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:07 pm

betiko wrote:I bet you no one is going to claim being gift stolen nor roelblocked, because these are the 2 actions they used.


Not everyone can know if they are roleblocked. If no one claims that, it proves nothing.

Not lynching anyone makes total sense with this scenario.
Ok, so normally now we are at 6/1/2.
My big question is to know if we can perform 2 actions in the same night or not... Last night I tried to perform 2, 1 didn't work. I don't know if I got roleblocked if the message would ve still be sent or not though?


Even if we assume that the message still gets through if you are roleblocked (since it is edoc doing the sending, not you), your scenario is just way too scummy. We now have had four nights where you conveniently can't verify your status as a gifter, and conveniently you can't confirm the gift you got from me because you happened to get stolen from on N2. Way too many coincidental and unverifiable things are happening to you this game. The chances of it really being all coincidental seems way too low.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:11 pm

betiko wrote:oh and vote mets this has lasted long enough. lynch me first if you want but just lynch him next once you see I've been saying the truth all along, can't believe I've caught him on his first post and no one is ever following my lead. 1 town for 1 scum, I'll take it.


Seriously? We have a cop saying that he landed a mafia member with his investigation, and you want to vote me? I think you're scum for sure but even I know that I'd rather go with hard evidence (even on the off chance that this (temporary) insanity theory is correct) than conjecture.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby betiko on Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:13 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
betiko wrote:I bet you no one is going to claim being gift stolen nor roelblocked, because these are the 2 actions they used.


Not everyone can know if they are roleblocked. If no one claims that, it proves nothing.

Not lynching anyone makes total sense with this scenario.
Ok, so normally now we are at 6/1/2.
My big question is to know if we can perform 2 actions in the same night or not... Last night I tried to perform 2, 1 didn't work. I don't know if I got roleblocked if the message would ve still be sent or not though?


Even if we assume that the message still gets through if you are roleblocked (since it is edoc doing the sending, not you), your scenario is just way too scummy. We now have had four nights where you conveniently can't verify your status as a gifter, and conveniently you can't confirm the gift you got from me because you happened to get stolen from on N2. Way too many coincidental and unverifiable things are happening to you this game. The chances of it really being all coincidental seems way too low.


I'm willing to get lynched right now mets. You won, your combined night action was really twisted. I get lynched and town lynches you tomorrow and starts believing in my scenario. My sacrifice is worth the shot, you wasted a night kill for all this setup.

also:
"Come" they told him, "come here, you will be safe". The little boy pondered the invitation for a moment. It seemed suspicious. Then he nodded, and his lamb kept time as he pa-rum-pum-pum-pummed his way through the snow. He had no gift to bring, but his drum would honor those who heard it. But the only pounding that would come would be the pounding of the villain's beating him to death, and another child became a Christmas casualty.

the character that rishaed claims to be was with kanin when he got NK. I think it's highly suspicious. my bet is mets and rishaed.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby betiko on Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:16 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
betiko wrote:oh and vote mets this has lasted long enough. lynch me first if you want but just lynch him next once you see I've been saying the truth all along, can't believe I've caught him on his first post and no one is ever following my lead. 1 town for 1 scum, I'll take it.


Seriously? We have a cop saying that he landed a mafia member with his investigation, and you want to vote me? I think you're scum for sure but even I know that I'd rather go with hard evidence (even on the off chance that this (temporary) insanity theory is correct) than conjecture.


well go ahead and vote for me!!!!! Yes, I think that if IB is town your whole action is completely fucked up and can lead to misslynches today and tomorrow. I'd rather sacrifice myself now to make a point. And I think we should not trust anymore gustaf's results.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:22 pm

betiko wrote:And I think we should not trust anymore gustaf's results.


Your argument for that is what, exactly? The small chance that the mafia had enough gifts for christmas magic, and happened to use that, on this particular night, to make the cop insane? Even if you were right, they obviously can't pull that off two nights in a row unless they have a massive source of gifts, so there's no good reason to say we shouldn't trust his results anymore.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby betiko on Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:24 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
betiko wrote:oh and vote mets this has lasted long enough. lynch me first if you want but just lynch him next once you see I've been saying the truth all along, can't believe I've caught him on his first post and no one is ever following my lead. 1 town for 1 scum, I'll take it.


Seriously? We have a cop saying that he landed a mafia member with his investigation, and you want to vote me? I think you're scum for sure but even I know that I'd rather go with hard evidence (even on the off chance that this (temporary) insanity theory is correct) than conjecture.


Ok mets; what hard evidence do you have against IB if you are saying that there are chances that gustaf got a temporary insanity?? Do you really think that mafia made it that easy for us??? let the cop unroleblocked???

here is one: I received a gift from witt last night. he didn't get roleblocked. So if they didn't NK, they didn't roleblock gustaf, witt or edoc, they didn't steal gifts (as far as we know) what was mafia up to last night????????
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby betiko on Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:30 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
betiko wrote:And I think we should not trust anymore gustaf's results.


Your argument for that is what, exactly? The small chance that the mafia had enough gifts for christmas magic, and happened to use that, on this particular night, to make the cop insane? Even if you were right, they obviously can't pull that off two nights in a row unless they have a massive source of gifts, so there's no good reason to say we shouldn't trust his results anymore.


oh small chance really? Gifts sent to mafia by witt by mistake + my gift (s if you are saying the truth) + the gift(s) stolen from mob; is there no possibility that mafia had christmas magic by night 4????
regular 2 gifts = temporarily insane
christmas magic = completely insane very possibly.

Also:

1. Certain players have the power to give out gifts. They may give these gifts to any player, including the mafia.
2. Once a player has 2 gifts, he/she may exchange them for a basic one-shot action (cop, doc, etc.). The cost to exchange for a basic one-shot increases by 1 for a player who makes an exchange (so if Player A exchanges for an action, he will have to pay 3 gifts the next time he wants to exchange. Player B, however, did not exchange, and will still only need 2).
3. If a player has 4 gifts, he/she can exchange for a Bit of Christmas Magic, which could be anything the player desires (that isn't gamebreaking). The cost to exchange for Christmas Magic increases by 2 for a player who makes an exchange.

I hope that when PCM says "which isn't gamebreaking" includes not giving the possibility to make someone change faction permanently, otherwise it's a way too important power for mafia.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:43 pm

betiko wrote:Ok mets; what hard evidence do you have against IB if you are saying that there are chances that gustaf got a temporary insanity?? Do you really think that mafia made it that easy for us??? let the cop unroleblocked???


The hard evidence doesn't necessarily have to be what you're thinking. Even if Gustaf does turn out to be insane, that's valuable evidence. It tells us what the mafia did with their gifts. And either way, we have to know whether we can trust our cop.

here is one: I received a gift from witt last night. he didn't get roleblocked. So if they didn't NK, they didn't roleblock gustaf, witt or edoc, they didn't steal gifts (as far as we know) what was mafia up to last night????????


How do you know that your gift came from Little Witt?

And my theory is straightforward. They tried to kill Gustaf and got blocked by me. If they tried to kill him, there would be no good reason to use their christmas magic on him, even if they had enough gifts for that. It's not clear to me why they wouldn't simultaneously roleblock me, assuming they do actually have a roleblocker. But their roleblocker could just have played poorly and roleblocked Little Witt (for example), or maybe their roleblocker forgot to send in a night action. Or maybe their roleblocker intentionally did nothing, with the intent to sow this confusion.

There's only two plausible scenarios here, regarding the NK: either I stopped the NK; or, they intentionally didn't NK anyone, hoping that town would think that I saved Gustaf, while they intentionally made him insane using christmas magic (and obviously, in that scenario, they wouldn't roleblock him). The reason why I find the first scenario more likely (aside from Occam's Razor) is that if they had done the second, we would have immediately realized what happened when IB flipped town, and it wouldn't cost us any more than one town member, which is exactly what they would have gotten if they had ignored this crazy scheme and just NK'ed someone on N4.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby betiko on Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:00 pm

the only gifters left are me, "you", witt and animaniaks. Since I received a gift last night, the only possibility by deduction is witt, that's how I know.
You know you were cornered with me day 4 with the chuck case. not lynching and pretending you saved gustaf with a frame is an excellent move congrats. But I'm not blindly following the IB lead.

Nevertheless, I'd still want to hear from IB. He's the only one who didn't give any of his night actions so far. Also he has a day action that could prove something acording to him, willing to hear that. So ani sent him a gift, that if he's saying the truth doubled and he might be ale to use it during the day, not sure about that...

also this will be interesting to hear

MoB Deadly wrote:I have some information, but I have reasons to withold it right now.

Not relevant to no night kills though.
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