[Official] Holiday Mafia - Game Over!

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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby betiko on Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:04 pm

oh and vote mets this has lasted long enough. lynch me first if you want but just lynch him next once you see I've been saying the truth all along, can't believe I've caught him on his first post and no one is ever following my lead. 1 town for 1 scum, I'll take it.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:07 pm

betiko wrote:I bet you no one is going to claim being gift stolen nor roelblocked, because these are the 2 actions they used.


Not everyone can know if they are roleblocked. If no one claims that, it proves nothing.

Not lynching anyone makes total sense with this scenario.
Ok, so normally now we are at 6/1/2.
My big question is to know if we can perform 2 actions in the same night or not... Last night I tried to perform 2, 1 didn't work. I don't know if I got roleblocked if the message would ve still be sent or not though?


Even if we assume that the message still gets through if you are roleblocked (since it is edoc doing the sending, not you), your scenario is just way too scummy. We now have had four nights where you conveniently can't verify your status as a gifter, and conveniently you can't confirm the gift you got from me because you happened to get stolen from on N2. Way too many coincidental and unverifiable things are happening to you this game. The chances of it really being all coincidental seems way too low.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:11 pm

betiko wrote:oh and vote mets this has lasted long enough. lynch me first if you want but just lynch him next once you see I've been saying the truth all along, can't believe I've caught him on his first post and no one is ever following my lead. 1 town for 1 scum, I'll take it.


Seriously? We have a cop saying that he landed a mafia member with his investigation, and you want to vote me? I think you're scum for sure but even I know that I'd rather go with hard evidence (even on the off chance that this (temporary) insanity theory is correct) than conjecture.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby betiko on Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:13 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
betiko wrote:I bet you no one is going to claim being gift stolen nor roelblocked, because these are the 2 actions they used.


Not everyone can know if they are roleblocked. If no one claims that, it proves nothing.

Not lynching anyone makes total sense with this scenario.
Ok, so normally now we are at 6/1/2.
My big question is to know if we can perform 2 actions in the same night or not... Last night I tried to perform 2, 1 didn't work. I don't know if I got roleblocked if the message would ve still be sent or not though?


Even if we assume that the message still gets through if you are roleblocked (since it is edoc doing the sending, not you), your scenario is just way too scummy. We now have had four nights where you conveniently can't verify your status as a gifter, and conveniently you can't confirm the gift you got from me because you happened to get stolen from on N2. Way too many coincidental and unverifiable things are happening to you this game. The chances of it really being all coincidental seems way too low.


I'm willing to get lynched right now mets. You won, your combined night action was really twisted. I get lynched and town lynches you tomorrow and starts believing in my scenario. My sacrifice is worth the shot, you wasted a night kill for all this setup.

also:
"Come" they told him, "come here, you will be safe". The little boy pondered the invitation for a moment. It seemed suspicious. Then he nodded, and his lamb kept time as he pa-rum-pum-pum-pummed his way through the snow. He had no gift to bring, but his drum would honor those who heard it. But the only pounding that would come would be the pounding of the villain's beating him to death, and another child became a Christmas casualty.

the character that rishaed claims to be was with kanin when he got NK. I think it's highly suspicious. my bet is mets and rishaed.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby betiko on Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:16 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
betiko wrote:oh and vote mets this has lasted long enough. lynch me first if you want but just lynch him next once you see I've been saying the truth all along, can't believe I've caught him on his first post and no one is ever following my lead. 1 town for 1 scum, I'll take it.


Seriously? We have a cop saying that he landed a mafia member with his investigation, and you want to vote me? I think you're scum for sure but even I know that I'd rather go with hard evidence (even on the off chance that this (temporary) insanity theory is correct) than conjecture.


well go ahead and vote for me!!!!! Yes, I think that if IB is town your whole action is completely fucked up and can lead to misslynches today and tomorrow. I'd rather sacrifice myself now to make a point. And I think we should not trust anymore gustaf's results.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:22 pm

betiko wrote:And I think we should not trust anymore gustaf's results.


Your argument for that is what, exactly? The small chance that the mafia had enough gifts for christmas magic, and happened to use that, on this particular night, to make the cop insane? Even if you were right, they obviously can't pull that off two nights in a row unless they have a massive source of gifts, so there's no good reason to say we shouldn't trust his results anymore.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby betiko on Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:24 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
betiko wrote:oh and vote mets this has lasted long enough. lynch me first if you want but just lynch him next once you see I've been saying the truth all along, can't believe I've caught him on his first post and no one is ever following my lead. 1 town for 1 scum, I'll take it.


Seriously? We have a cop saying that he landed a mafia member with his investigation, and you want to vote me? I think you're scum for sure but even I know that I'd rather go with hard evidence (even on the off chance that this (temporary) insanity theory is correct) than conjecture.


Ok mets; what hard evidence do you have against IB if you are saying that there are chances that gustaf got a temporary insanity?? Do you really think that mafia made it that easy for us??? let the cop unroleblocked???

here is one: I received a gift from witt last night. he didn't get roleblocked. So if they didn't NK, they didn't roleblock gustaf, witt or edoc, they didn't steal gifts (as far as we know) what was mafia up to last night????????
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby betiko on Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:30 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
betiko wrote:And I think we should not trust anymore gustaf's results.


Your argument for that is what, exactly? The small chance that the mafia had enough gifts for christmas magic, and happened to use that, on this particular night, to make the cop insane? Even if you were right, they obviously can't pull that off two nights in a row unless they have a massive source of gifts, so there's no good reason to say we shouldn't trust his results anymore.


oh small chance really? Gifts sent to mafia by witt by mistake + my gift (s if you are saying the truth) + the gift(s) stolen from mob; is there no possibility that mafia had christmas magic by night 4????
regular 2 gifts = temporarily insane
christmas magic = completely insane very possibly.

Also:

1. Certain players have the power to give out gifts. They may give these gifts to any player, including the mafia.
2. Once a player has 2 gifts, he/she may exchange them for a basic one-shot action (cop, doc, etc.). The cost to exchange for a basic one-shot increases by 1 for a player who makes an exchange (so if Player A exchanges for an action, he will have to pay 3 gifts the next time he wants to exchange. Player B, however, did not exchange, and will still only need 2).
3. If a player has 4 gifts, he/she can exchange for a Bit of Christmas Magic, which could be anything the player desires (that isn't gamebreaking). The cost to exchange for Christmas Magic increases by 2 for a player who makes an exchange.

I hope that when PCM says "which isn't gamebreaking" includes not giving the possibility to make someone change faction permanently, otherwise it's a way too important power for mafia.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:43 pm

betiko wrote:Ok mets; what hard evidence do you have against IB if you are saying that there are chances that gustaf got a temporary insanity?? Do you really think that mafia made it that easy for us??? let the cop unroleblocked???


The hard evidence doesn't necessarily have to be what you're thinking. Even if Gustaf does turn out to be insane, that's valuable evidence. It tells us what the mafia did with their gifts. And either way, we have to know whether we can trust our cop.

here is one: I received a gift from witt last night. he didn't get roleblocked. So if they didn't NK, they didn't roleblock gustaf, witt or edoc, they didn't steal gifts (as far as we know) what was mafia up to last night????????


How do you know that your gift came from Little Witt?

And my theory is straightforward. They tried to kill Gustaf and got blocked by me. If they tried to kill him, there would be no good reason to use their christmas magic on him, even if they had enough gifts for that. It's not clear to me why they wouldn't simultaneously roleblock me, assuming they do actually have a roleblocker. But their roleblocker could just have played poorly and roleblocked Little Witt (for example), or maybe their roleblocker forgot to send in a night action. Or maybe their roleblocker intentionally did nothing, with the intent to sow this confusion.

There's only two plausible scenarios here, regarding the NK: either I stopped the NK; or, they intentionally didn't NK anyone, hoping that town would think that I saved Gustaf, while they intentionally made him insane using christmas magic (and obviously, in that scenario, they wouldn't roleblock him). The reason why I find the first scenario more likely (aside from Occam's Razor) is that if they had done the second, we would have immediately realized what happened when IB flipped town, and it wouldn't cost us any more than one town member, which is exactly what they would have gotten if they had ignored this crazy scheme and just NK'ed someone on N4.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby betiko on Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:00 pm

the only gifters left are me, "you", witt and animaniaks. Since I received a gift last night, the only possibility by deduction is witt, that's how I know.
You know you were cornered with me day 4 with the chuck case. not lynching and pretending you saved gustaf with a frame is an excellent move congrats. But I'm not blindly following the IB lead.

Nevertheless, I'd still want to hear from IB. He's the only one who didn't give any of his night actions so far. Also he has a day action that could prove something acording to him, willing to hear that. So ani sent him a gift, that if he's saying the truth doubled and he might be ale to use it during the day, not sure about that...

also this will be interesting to hear

MoB Deadly wrote:I have some information, but I have reasons to withold it right now.

Not relevant to no night kills though.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby pancakemix on Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:32 pm

Vote Count

IB - 4 (Gustaf, MoB, Rish, Mets)
Mets - 1 (betiko)

9 alive 5 to lynch
Epic Win

"Always tell the truth. It's the easiest thing to remember." - Richard Roma, Glengarry Glen Ross

aage wrote:Never trust CYOC or pancake.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby betiko on Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:33 pm

IB you're at L-1 if you have something you can use as you're pretending please use it asap!
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby Iron Butterfly on Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:39 pm

First My apologies but it has been a long day.

First I was given two gifts which enables me to perform xmas magic. I received a notification that I can use my gifts today which would let me perform any night action including xmas magic. i asked if I could resurrect a Town player and was informed I could.
I misunderstood how the gifting works and assumed that the action would work on the player that day. I was informed that the "gifts" are a night action. So my bad.

Something puzzles me. I understand that I have been investigated and turned up mafia. I do not see how Gustaff would not be Town BUT no one has claimed they were role blocked and there are a variety of ways the investigation could have been tainted.

It just dawned on me though. Why have we been trusting MOB? Since the investigation has been revealed he has been wanting to speed the lynch up.

Mob stated his win condition was to unite the two misers and he would be removed from game, while the two misers would become survivors. He seemed to think that having two survivors would be best for town as apposed to one (himself). I choose to let Spiesr win over Mob because Mob was completely self serving. I believe he has not been honest with us and is not a survivor.

And for your information i asked if negative night actions can be used such as vig actions, busdrives ect and the answer is yes.


Vote MOB
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby betiko on Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:05 pm

Iron Butterfly wrote:First My apologies but it has been a long day.

First I was given two gifts which enables me to perform xmas magic. I received a notification that I can use my gifts today which would let me perform any night action including xmas magic. i asked if I could resurrect a Town player and was informed I could.
I misunderstood how the gifting works and assumed that the action would work on the player that day. I was informed that the "gifts" are a night action. So my bad.

Something puzzles me. I understand that I have been investigated and turned up mafia. I do not see how Gustaff would not be Town BUT no one has claimed they were role blocked and there are a variety of ways the investigation could have been tainted.

It just dawned on me though. Why have we been trusting MOB? Since the investigation has been revealed he has been wanting to speed the lynch up.

Mob stated his win condition was to unite the two misers and he would be removed from game, while the two misers would become survivors. He seemed to think that having two survivors would be best for town as apposed to one (himself). I choose to let Spiesr win over Mob because Mob was completely self serving. I believe he has not been honest with us and is not a survivor.

And for your information i asked if negative night actions can be used such as vig actions, busdrives ect and the answer is yes.


Vote MOB


you mean "no one else" than me cause I can assure you I was roleblocked unless gustaf isn't saying the truth.
what do you mean that you asked for the resurection last night but it won't be working until tomorow or that last night you didn't have enough gifts?

if you're acusing mob of trying to speed lynch you, gustaf is guilty of the same. In fact gustaf and mob have always been on the same page all along. don't think it's enough thugh comared to a sure scum lnch with mets.

you can do the math of scum night actions night per night and with the tells from the scenes. when did the diviner had time for a check on mets?
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:16 pm

Iron Butterfly wrote:It just dawned on me though. Why have we been trusting MOB? Since the investigation has been revealed he has been wanting to speed the lynch up.


That did not escape my notice, but it doesn't change the fact that you are the best lynch opportunity we have right now. I can't deny the possibility that Gustaf's result is not accurate. But I also can't see how we could possibly make a more rational choice with today's vote. Lynching either myself or betiko would be the wrong move, given the uncertainties that evidently surround both of us. If Gustaf's claimed result is incorrect, then even that is useful information; we could actually use that to our advantage, if it implies that he has become an insane cop (although we would gain nothing if he were just a naive cop). Obviously it would not be great for town to lose that, but we would still have (probably) 6 people on our side, against 2 for mafia.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby betiko on Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:23 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
Iron Butterfly wrote:It just dawned on me though. Why have we been trusting MOB? Since the investigation has been revealed he has been wanting to speed the lynch up.


That did not escape my notice, but it doesn't change the fact that you are the best lynch opportunity we have right now. I can't deny the possibility that Gustaf's result is not accurate. But I also can't see how we could possibly make a more rational choice with today's vote. Lynching either myself or betiko would be the wrong move, given the uncertainties that evidently surround both of us. If Gustaf's claimed result is incorrect, then even that is useful information; we could actually use that to our advantage, if it implies that he has become an insane cop (although we would gain nothing if he were just a naive cop). Obviously it would not be great for town to lose that, but we would still have (probably) 6 people on our side, against 2 for mafia.


I'd rather lynch a scum that a possible town for "experiments". he can just investigate mob for example tonight as it worked before with 3rd parties. He can investigate edoc or witt for a sure town and see what result he gets.
I'm pretty sure my scenario is what actually happened. I think we need to end the betiko/mets fight.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby Metsfanmax on Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:30 pm

betiko wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:
Iron Butterfly wrote:It just dawned on me though. Why have we been trusting MOB? Since the investigation has been revealed he has been wanting to speed the lynch up.


That did not escape my notice, but it doesn't change the fact that you are the best lynch opportunity we have right now. I can't deny the possibility that Gustaf's result is not accurate. But I also can't see how we could possibly make a more rational choice with today's vote. Lynching either myself or betiko would be the wrong move, given the uncertainties that evidently surround both of us. If Gustaf's claimed result is incorrect, then even that is useful information; we could actually use that to our advantage, if it implies that he has become an insane cop (although we would gain nothing if he were just a naive cop). Obviously it would not be great for town to lose that, but we would still have (probably) 6 people on our side, against 2 for mafia.


I'd rather lynch a scum that a possible town for "experiments". he can just investigate mob for example tonight as it worked before with 3rd parties. He can investigate edoc or witt for a sure town and see what result he gets.
I'm pretty sure my scenario is what actually happened. I think we need to end the betiko/mets fight.


It's not mainly an experiment. We have zero reason to believe that Gustaf's results are inaccurate. He has been shown to produce accurate results on previous nights. You have this very specific conjecture that might be possible, but there's nothing to ground it in. If you remove your belief that I am scum, the entire basis for your case vanishes, which shows that it is thin to begin with.

At any rate, the betiko/mets "fight" is on hold. The only person you've managed to land on your side with a vote is ana (I didn't miss that, and I will return to this on a later Day). There's not much left we can do at this point besides hold a vote and see who goes down (which would be you based on past votes, but you seem to be ok with this since you think it will prove that I am mafia). And if that's the case, we might as well save that for a time when we don't actually have a lead.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby MoB Deadly on Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:07 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

IB still trying to frame me. Remember last time you took that path? I let my actions and vote speak for themselves. If townies start disliking how I play then maybe I will change, but I am not going to listen to someone with a guilty result on them.

Betiko vs Mets - This is EXACTLY WHY I wanted to lynch IB quickly. Now it's a huge foggy debate. Betiko still looks much more scummier with his ridiculous scenarios.


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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby rishaed on Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:47 pm

betiko wrote:why are you guys rushing things?? there is a big question here: why the hell didn't they performed a night kill.
Gustaf, they might have used it to frame your result. If IB turns town after we lynch him wouldn't it be interesting to hear what he had to say? the more info the better.

I find this interesting as well unvote
The day is still young, why rush things?
aage wrote: Maybe you're right, but since we receive no handlebars from the mod I think we should get some ourselves.

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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby Iron Butterfly on Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:39 pm

MoB Deadly wrote::lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

IB still trying to frame me. Remember last time you took that path? I let my actions and vote speak for themselves. If townies start disliking how I play then maybe I will change, but I am not going to listen to someone with a guilty result on them.

Betiko vs Mets - This is EXACTLY WHY I wanted to lynch IB quickly. Now it's a huge foggy debate. Betiko still looks much more scummier with his ridiculous scenarios.


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LOL "maybe You will change??

THAT is the main reason I felt it prudent to lynch soundman. Why keep around two survivors, who may decide to form a vote tandem and flip on town. The game up to yesterday was looking bleak for Town. Now you say you may change. Thank you for showing i made the right call.

Your action and vote was purely self preservation followed by ange.r I denied your win condition. Your arguments for my guilt were pure WIFOM speculation.

At present I am not trying to do anything as dramatic as "frame" you though I find it an interesting choice of words. I have a right to question your motives and what has happened to me.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby Gustaf Wasa on Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:18 am

betiko wrote:lol, you 2 really make me laugh.

You don't make me laugh. You are incapable of accepting that someone has an opinion other than yours, and you immediately start insulting people when that happens. You don't know how to play this game, but I think your ego prevents you from seeing that.

Knowing that you are going to lose this must really bother you, right? I think it is all about winning for you.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby Gustaf Wasa on Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:26 am

rishaed wrote:I find this interesting as well unvote
The day is still young, why rush things?

Because there is nothing left to discuss, betiko is just blowing smoke out of his ass as usual, trying to prevent his proven scum buddy from being lynched. Iron Butterfly showed up Mafia in my investigation. (I am posting this again for those lazy players who can't seem to show up in this game.) Listening to whatever crap betiko brings up won't solve anything, we lynch him and move on. Suppose he WOULD be town anyway, because someone used "Christmas magic" to somehow make the investigation show anyone investigated as scum. Well, you won't find that out without lynching him. And we are not at lylo, if that helps. But the more the obvious Mafia betiko defends him, the more convinced I am, if any more convincing was needed.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby betiko on Fri Mar 08, 2013 6:08 am

Gustaf Wasa wrote:
betiko wrote:lol, you 2 really make me laugh.

You don't make me laugh. You are incapable of accepting that someone has an opinion other than yours, and you immediately start insulting people when that happens. You don't know how to play this game, but I think your ego prevents you from seeing that.

Knowing that you are going to lose this must really bother you, right? I think it is all about winning for you.


I didn't know that making other people laugh was an insult, maybe that s why swedes are such fun! :o
Seems like you are very tolerant for other opinions of what might have happened, and you are such a great player letting aside his ego!!! ( I have to say I ve never played someone that clueless and with such a superiority complex, nice to meet you!) I ve been framed as a cop once and after making all town go for the person with the guilty result I can assure you that tomorrow you would ve gotten lynched. So blame me for protecting your ass by anticipation if your result comes in false. I also think that I d rather get lynched so town sees I m who I say I am and pay more attention to what I ve been saying. Otherwise we are just blindly following the tracks that mafia wants us to follow and mets will end up being cleared.

And Gustaf, as I said it s about making my faction win in this case town. I rather think you are town because you are lucky enough to have taken over the shoes of a great player, unfortunately, unless you are scum (in that case nice play), I think that you should give up on your intuitions, they are far off from the truth.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby betiko on Fri Mar 08, 2013 7:28 am

Anyway, sorry about that previous post, I responded to the baiting and it's not relevant.
I'll just say that you are completely wrong gustaf, and that is not an opinion but a fact from my perspective with the elements I have.
You have the right not to believe me of course, but that's another story.
This game is getting twisted with so many possibilities, and I'm aware that I might be doing a fool of myself with the mets case if ever he is town as well, and if IB is scum and your result hasn't been framed. But hey, my gut feeling says otherwise, so does yours about me. Let's stop making this personal as we are getting ridiculous.
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Re: [Official] Holiday Mafia - D5 [9/16] Silent Night

Postby Gustaf Wasa on Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:22 am

betiko wrote:I didn't know that making other people laugh was an insult, maybe that s why swedes are such fun! :o

Now you are insulting me for being Swedish? Seriously? As if you knew anything about Sweden. You fail at this, betiko.
Seems like you are very tolerant for other opinions of what might have happened, and you are such a great player letting aside his ego!!!

You are the one who started insulting me as soon as I started a vote against you. I am calling you out on it. Then you just keep on doing what you always do...
( I have to say I ve never played someone that clueless and with such a superiority complex, nice to meet you!)

Seeing the obvious signs of you being Mafia makes me "clueless"? Clueless is yet another insult. I bet you would want to use stronger language but you are afraid the mod will give you a warning.

Like I said, you don't know how to play this game. Look at all the games going on right now. No one acts like you do. That should give you a "clue".
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