Conquer 4: Back in Development [Abandoned Again?]

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Postby w3a2 on Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:33 am

reverend_kyle wrote:I think life would make a good map.

not yours. it would suck
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Postby KEYOGI on Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:47 pm

First Look

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I'll state again that I don't mind if this doesn't make it through the foundry, I just wanted offer up something different in terms of gameplay.

Now, I usually hate the embossing look for a map, but considering this isn't so much a map I went nuts with it and think it works well. :wink:

Opinions on the design and choice of name?
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Postby btownmeggy on Fri Feb 23, 2007 7:55 pm

I think it's awesome. But you don't really need the +16, do you?
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Postby Captain Crash on Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:06 pm

I think it looks good, and like several other new maps brings new ideas on game play.

Your legend says:
"Multiple bonuses may only share a single space"
but several of your illustrations are sharing many more than 1 space.
e.g.
+16 example has each row sharing four places, one with each column.
+6 each of the first three examples has a row or diagonal sharing two spots.
There just seems to be a difference of what constitues a bonus.
e.g. If one had a whole column, one would only get a single +2 bonus, even though there is more than one set of four adjacent spaces. Yet does four grouped together to form a square get any bonus?

As I said, I just think more clarity needs to be given in defining what gets a bonus and what does not. Both in terms of instruction and examples.

Yes, I think the embossing works well in this case also.

cheers

8)
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Postby sfhbballnut on Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:19 pm

looks good, I'd play it. way to change things up
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Postby KEYOGI on Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:52 pm

+16 is kind of unavoidable, it's the way the code would work. I think if anyone had a 4x4 block, the game would most likely be over anyway.

Maybe it's just me, but I find the system easy enough to understand and I thought it was explained okay. Anybody else have trouble understanding the multiple bonus concept?

Lets use A1 to D4 as our example block. For +6:
Example 1 - A1, A2, A3 and A4 = +2
- A2, B2, C2 and D2 = +2, sharing one border with first bonus
- D1, D2, D3 and D4 = +2, sharing one bordeer with seoncd bonus
- total bonus of +6, 3 sets with 2 shared spaces.

Does that help explain?

4 grouped together is not a bonus because it's not a line, maybe that needs to be cleared up.
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Postby Bad Speler on Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:21 pm

ok...that looks a bit complicated...id prefer not doing the xml for this, ask the other guy who vounteered.
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Postby Captain Crash on Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:51 pm

KEYOGI wrote:Lets use A1 to D4 as our example block. For +6:
Example 1 - A1, A2, A3 and A4 = +2
- A2, B2, C2 and D2 = +2, sharing one border with first bonus
- D1, D2, D3 and D4 = +2, sharing one bordeer with seoncd bonus
- total bonus of +6, 3 sets with 2 shared spaces.



So what would the bonus be when you add A4, B4, C4 & D4 to the above example?
An additional +2, right?
But then the previous bonus of 3 sets with 2 shared spaces is now 4 sets with 4 shared spaces.,
Add in a third row (A1, B1, C1 & D1) and you now have 5 sets worth +10 but with 6 shared spaces.
Add the fourth row (As, B3, C3 & D3) and we end with 8 sets, +16 but 16 shared spaces, and hence the rule of "multiple bonuses may only share a single space" seems to be broken.

I think I know what it is you are trying to achieve (i.e. eliminating overlapping 4s such as 6 in a row containing 3 sets of 4 in a row and hence equalling +6, but only going to gain the player +2). It is putting that into the legend portion of the map succintly that needs to be addressed.

Maybe you could add an example of '6 in a row' to the top illustrations of only +2, highlighting the difference. Possibly matched with reduction in other examples; removing the vertical '+2' and one of the vert/horiz crossing '+4's for example.

Cheers

8)
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Postby KEYOGI on Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:05 am

I see your point. This is one of the reasons this map may never go anywhere, it's just too damn confusing! :?
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Postby Captain Crash on Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:40 am

KEYOGI wrote:I see your point. This is one of the reasons this map may never go anywhere, it's just too damn confusing! :?


It just has to be well worded so as to reduce the confusion.
People will always get confused (Case in point: World 2.0's Sumatra/Brunei/Central Indonesia issue).

It'll get there.

8)
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Postby Coleman on Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:23 am

My view. If people don't understand it they don't have to play it. I like it, I'd play it. Even if you don't like my silly map. :roll:

You even have pictures spelling it out, I don't get the confusion. Worst case you've made another Crosswords or Circus Maximums, those maps may not get played the most but they are fun for something different.

I would suggest cutting the bonuses in half though. If I'm holding the block of 4 like you show I'd be getting +16 continental in addition to at least 5 from the territories. Not that I mind slugging it out with groups of 30+ at a time, which I'm sure would happen a lot on this map down to 3 players, but if that wasn't your intent...

Anyway, I just don't want you to abandon the map. The yes's are leading still. :wink:
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Postby Captain Crash on Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:58 am

Coleman wrote:If people don't understand it they don't have to play it.


Hear, hear!
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Postby Qwert on Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:36 am

People dont want to stydu matematic, people want to play risiko and get fun. For me its compicated map, but these only my opinion.
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Postby spinwizard on Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:28 am

i probs would not play it...like crossword but i like the way it is done...keep going! :P
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Postby sfhbballnut on Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:52 am

spinwizard wrote:i probs would not play it...like crossword but i like the way it is done...keep going! :P

'
this isn't as confusing as crossword, its a simple grid layout with an interesting bonus configuration, I'd really like to see it done, but the xml is gonna be scary
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Postby KEYOGI on Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:19 pm

I had a thought about the bonuses... I think it would be easiest if you could only have one bonus per row and column. It would probably simplify the xml and still leave open the possibility for combined bonuses with diagonal and cross-over combos.

Thoughts?
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Postby fisherman5 on Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:42 pm

random question would u be able to attack diagonally or just vertical and horizontal
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Postby KEYOGI on Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:41 am

Yes, diagonal attacks would be an option.
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Postby KEYOGI on Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:10 am

KEYOGI wrote:I had a thought about the bonuses... I think it would be easiest if you could only have one bonus per row and column. It would probably simplify the xml and still leave open the possibility for combined bonuses with diagonal and cross-over combos.

Thoughts?


I've been thinking about that point some more. It doesn't really change much but get rid of the possiblilty of an extra bonus for holding an entire row.
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Postby yeti_c on Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:02 am

KEYOGI wrote:
KEYOGI wrote:I had a thought about the bonuses... I think it would be easiest if you could only have one bonus per row and column. It would probably simplify the xml and still leave open the possibility for combined bonuses with diagonal and cross-over combos.

Thoughts?


I've been thinking about that point some more. It doesn't really change much but get rid of the possiblilty of an extra bonus for holding an entire row.


I can code up a few variants if you like - not til Monday though (when I'm at work!!!)...

Essentially thee vairants will be this...

a) All matches of 4 equal bonus. (Probably too much bonus)
b) Like Initial draft mentions (4's & 8's get bonuses)
c) One bonus per Row/Column (Not sure I like the really - if you've got 8 in a row you definitely have 2 sets?)

Now going back to the image... I like it a lot... I see the point made about the bonuses... will get my thinking cap on to determine what's the best way to explain it.

C.

PS XML is never scary!!
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Postby yeti_c on Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:07 am

My only other point - Coming from a mathmatical point of view I would have A-G on the bottom and work up from 1-6 not down?

C.
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Postby KEYOGI on Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:07 am

I really appreciate the help yeti. I'll be sure to put your name up in lights on the map if/when this thing gets through.

I wouldn't worry about doing any coding yet though until we've figured out the best bonus option. I really want to get this nutted out, because I think it's our biggest hurdle.
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Postby maniacmath17 on Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:10 am

shouldn't the +12 bonus be a +14? There are 3 across, 3 down, and 1 diagonal.

And the +16 should be +20 because there's 4 across, 4 down, and 2 diagonal.
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Postby KEYOGI on Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:10 am

yeti_c wrote:My only other point - Coming from a mathmatical point of view I would have A-G on the bottom and work up from 1-6 not down?

C.


Will do.
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Postby KEYOGI on Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:12 am

maniacmath17 wrote:shouldn't the +12 bonus be a +14? There are 3 across, 3 down, and 1 diagonal.

And the +16 should be +20 because there's 4 across, 4 down, and 2 diagonal.


Yes, you are right. Sorry, maths isn't my specialty. I think the bonuses are definately getting too big since that's the case. Suggestions?
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