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Eurasia Map [Old thread]

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Re: Eurasia [7.12.11] pg2

Postby natty dread on Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:43 am

Updates!

- Name changes: East India > Assam, Angora > Anatolia, Fennoscandia > Nordics, Other Stans > Turkics (not totally accurate for the area but the best I can think of)
- Bonus area changes: Romania from Mediterranean > East Europe
- Added Sulawesi to Oceania
- Added sea routes: Kyushu-Taiwan, Svalbard-Sevetnaya Zemlya
- Added abbreviations legend
- Region bonus: +1 for 4 regions, min 3 max 10

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Re: Eurasia [6.12.11] pg2

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Dec 07, 2011 3:39 am

natty_dread wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:I didn't mean the whole australia. I posted the Wallace line (in red on the image)because it is the imaginary border between asia and oceania, java is on the asian side


Yes but it still falls outside the current cropping.

thenobodies80 wrote:About space you have other 200 px if you want : SUPERSIZE LARGE MAP: WIDTH up to 1400 px ; HEIGHT 1200 px


But the small map height restriction is 800 px.

The supersize limits are weirdly inconsistent that way. When the small limit is 800, it doesn't matter that the large limit is 1200... if I aim for a +25% size differential then the maximum height for the large becomes 1.25 * 800 = 1000.



In this way you'll never be wrong natty. Your way to reply to people it's pretty annoying, as I said to you in past, like you know everything about mapmaking and graphics and everyone else is shit.
Now I understand why so much people stay away from the foundry and when I ask them I receive 99% of times the same reply.
Anyway Good Luck with your maps.

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Re: Eurasia [7.12.11] pg2

Postby natty dread on Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:39 am

thenobodies80 wrote:
natty_dread wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:About space you have other 200 px if you want : SUPERSIZE LARGE MAP: WIDTH up to 1400 px ; HEIGHT 1200 px

But the small map height restriction is 800 px.

The supersize limits are weirdly inconsistent that way. When the small limit is 800, it doesn't matter that the large limit is 1200... if I aim for a +25% size differential then the maximum height for the large becomes 1.25 * 800 = 1000.

In this way you'll never be wrong natty. Your way to reply to people it's pretty annoyin, as I said to you in past, like you know everything about mapmaking and graphics and everyone else is shit.
Now I understand why so much people stay away from the foundry and when I ask them I receive 99% of times the same reply.
Anyway Good Luck with your maps.


What the actual f*ck, nobodies? :-s

What exactly is your problem here? Have I been disrespectful to you in any way? I thought one of the foundry guidelines was to respond to all feedback and suggestions in a reasonable way.

You suggested that I add Java on the map, I gave you reasons why I think that isn't feasible. If you think those aren't good reasons, you're welcome to post and explain why.

I don't think my response was annoying or arrogant. I challenge you to show me where I have posted anything that even implies "I know everything and anyone else doesn't know shit". Look at any of my posts/responses in this thread, I've been perfectly cordial and reasonable in all my responses, I've agreed with some feedback, disagreed with some, but I've ALWAYS provided reasons why I disagree if so. I thought that was how the feedback system was supposed to work in the foundry?

Maybe you're just having a bad day and overreacting to something, I don't know. But either way, I don't think I've deserved this personal assault from you. We're adult humans and we should be able to disagree or debate without getting all pissed at each other.
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Re: Eurasia [7.12.11] pg2

Postby thenobodies80 on Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:11 am

You're drawing a map about eurasia and you add Suwalesi (Oceania) but not Java (Asia)....this is the point.
It's like draw a map about a human body and say "sorry I draw everything but not the head because size restrictions".

I suggested Java for the same reasons people suggested me to add or cut territories when I developed Oceania with pikkio. viewtopic.php?f=358&t=70624&start=15#p1714489

If the problem is that you don't have space just ask, because size restrictions are managed by myself and isaiah40 so it's not a big deal.
As written when they were announced, we have restrictions, but in some exceptional cases we allow more space. (see tisha americas and kabanellas kings court 2 for example).

So, if you want to draw Europe and Asia, draw Europa and Asia, just that. Don't tell me you can't because size restrictions. What you did in your answer was to say that the fault is with size restrictions that are not consistent, it wasn't give me an answer. Then if the fact is you want to have the small 25% smaller than the big, this is a your choice, but we ask for 9% as minimum, so don't tell us that the "rule" set are wrong if you're not willing to fit them to your map.

About the attitude I'm not talking about this thread but more in general, i took just the occasion to take a dig to you. O:)
If you want I can quote some PM or posts where people tell the same about it, but probably this map thread is not the right place so I shut up and I leave you with a common italian proverb "Chi ha orecchie per intendere intenda" ;)

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Re: Eurasia [7.12.11] pg2

Postby natty dread on Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:15 am

thenobodies80 wrote:You're drawing a map about eurasia and you add Suwalesi (Oceania) but not Java (Asia)....this is the point.


If it seriously bothers you that much, just pretend that Java is included in the Sumatra territory.

thenobodies80 wrote:If the problem is that you don't have space just ask


No, I won't. I'm not going to add another 100 pixels of height to the map just to add one territory. There's no point in that. The size restrictions aren't the only reason (like I already told you).

The main focus of the map is the Eurasian continent, any islands that fit in are in, the ones that don't are out. I'm not including Iceland either, even though it's a part of Europe, because it's outside the cropping which is focused around the outlines of the Eurasian continent.

thenobodies80 wrote:About the attitude I'm not talking about this thread but more in general, i took just the occasion to take a dig to you. O:)


You're the foundry foreman. Should you really be taking "digs" at mapmakers?

thenobodies80 wrote:If you want I can quote some PM or posts where people tell the same about it


I don't care. If anyone has a problem with me, they can come talk to me directly, and we can work it out. If they'd rather gossip about me in pm:s or whatever, that's their problem.
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Re: Eurasia [7.12.11] pg2

Postby natty dread on Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:21 am

ANYWAY, now that this unpleasantness is behind us, here's what I ended up with:

- I added territory Crimea, and added it to the Baltics bonus, renaming it Baltics & Crimea. Now it's a bonus with 2 separated territories, that gives an undervalued bonus of +1, it's only really worth to hold as part of the E.E. superbonus.

- Some impassable changes.

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With this change, there's now 126 territories and none have to be coded neutrals, so we have an optimal number of starting territories with the +1/4 territory bonus.

8 players = 15 territories = +3
6 players = 21 territories = +5
5 players = 25 territories = +6
4 players = 31 territories = +7
2-3 players = 42 territories = +10
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Re: Eurasia [7.12.11] pg3

Postby natty dread on Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:23 pm

Changed it a bit again, I decided to split Eastern Europe in N/S portions... well, that and I also renamed Sumatra to Sumatra & Java to get Java some representation on the map. I hope this satisfies all parties.

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Re: Eurasia [7.12.11] pg2

Postby Victor Sullivan on Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:18 pm

natty_dread wrote:
thenobodies80 wrote:About the attitude I'm not talking about this thread but more in general, i took just the occasion to take a dig to you. O:)


You're the foundry foreman. Should you really be taking "digs" at mapmakers?

:lol: Come on, now, natty, that seems like a double-standard. He's just as human as you are! And if anyone needs a dig, it's you, buddy.

That being said, onto mappy things!

natty_dread wrote:
Victor Sullivan wrote:the border between Austria and Germany looks way off


Maybe that's because Austria kind of also includes the Czech. Anyway. Borders can be fudged whenever it benefits gameplay clarity. You should know this, Victor.

I know this very well, but this is not what I'm suggesting ;) My stance is accuracy should be used when there are no major gameplay repercussions. In this case, I don't see much of one. Be it the land of three-fourths of my ancestors, I might be a little biased and stubborn in this regard :P

Oh, and, why did you decide to put a cap on the territory bonus? Also, I think it would do well to have a connection between UAE and East Iran or Oman and East Iran (UAE--East Iran being my personal preference, given their closeness in comparison).

-Sully

P.S. Oh, yes, I meant Angora, I edited my post after posting it, realizing I used the wrong consonant.
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Re: Eurasia [7.12.11] pg3

Postby natty dread on Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:33 pm

Victor Sullivan wrote:And if anyone needs a dig, it's you, buddy.


Ha ha. So you're saying that I "need" a foundry mod to come to my map thread, and without any provocation start slinging insults at my face and accuse me of being annoying when I've been nothing but respectful in said thread?

Whatever.

Anyway: The territory Austria represents both Austria and Czech Republic, but due to space constraints it is named simply "Austria". I don't see why Arabia needs any extra connections.
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Re: Eurasia [7.12.11] pg2

Postby Victor Sullivan on Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:45 pm

natty_dread wrote:
Victor Sullivan wrote:And if anyone needs a dig, it's you, buddy.


Ha ha. So you're saying that I "need" a foundry mod to come to my map thread, and without any provocation start slinging insults at my face and accuse me of being annoying when I've been nothing but respectful in said thread?

Whatever. If you have such a low opinion of me, then just stay out of my map threads.

I never said anything of the sort. I have respect for you with regard to your mapmaking knowledge and such, but some of that is weakened when you act less than respectful to others inside and outside of this forum. It seems nobodies agrees at least to a certain extent.

Anywho...
natty_dread wrote:Anyway: The territory Austria represents both Austria and Czech Republic, but due to space constraints it is named simply "Austria".

Hm, almost. If it included all of Austria, Germany wouldn't connect to Italy, and perhaps it shouldn't. And even so, Germany's eastern border shouldn't look off, given the Czech Republic is included in the Austria territory. But perhaps it's petty.

-Sully
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Re: Eurasia [7.12.11] pg3

Postby mviola on Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:46 pm

Shouldn't Norrland be called North Sweden to keep everything consistent with the labeling? That or change South Sweden to what it's called in Swedish. (I assume Norrland is Swedish for North Sweden)
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Re: Eurasia [7.12.11] pg3

Postby natty dread on Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:50 pm

No, Norrland is the name of the region. Though I suppose I could change it to Northland to be consistent with the language.
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Re: Eurasia [7.12.11] pg3

Postby Industrial Helix on Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:03 pm

Did you apply for the supersize stamp?

I'm really liking this map, but one suggestion I have is how about splitting up the Philippines into two regions, Luzon and Mindanao?
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Re: Eurasia [7.12.11] pg3

Postby natty dread on Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:18 pm

Victor Sullivan wrote:I never said anything of the sort. I have respect for you with regard to your mapmaking knowledge and such, but some of that is weakened when you act less than respectful to others inside and outside of this forum.


Yeah, just look at the posts in this thread for example. I'm answering respectfully to all questions and suggestions, and then out of the blue I get accused of being an asshole and annoying and shit like that.

If answering feedback honestly according to the best of my ability isn't what I'm supposed to be doing, I never got the memo.

ANYWAY, Austria connecting to Switzerland is doable. I'm not sure why I left that piece out, the reason is probably complicated... Germany's eastern border is perfectly accurate within the scale of the map though. And, the territory bonus is capped to 10 to make the map more bonus-oriented.

I still don't know why you want a connection between UAE and Iran? I don't see the reason...

Industrial Helix wrote:Did you apply for the supersize stamp?


Got it already.

Industrial Helix wrote:I'm really liking this map, but one suggestion I have is how about splitting up the Philippines into two regions, Luzon and Mindanao?


Is there a gameplay reason for doing so?
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Re: Eurasia [7.12.11] pg3

Postby Industrial Helix on Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:21 pm

As for the Philippines.. for me at least it feels like it could be its own bonus region, given its significance in the region and making it two sections would allow for that to happen. And generally I like little bonuses cause they're nice starting areas which will counter the easy bonuses of those three-part euro regions on the other side of the map.

I'ma sticky this now.
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Re: Eurasia [7.12.11] pg3

Postby natty dread on Wed Dec 07, 2011 7:48 pm

Mmh... I share your love for small bonuses, but.... I don't know if 2-territory bonuses are really suitable for a map this size.

Also, the small bonuses are already spread quite evenly accross the map. If you look at the 3-territory bonuses, in Europe there are 3 (Central E, Southeast E, Brits), in China 2 (Mongolia & Manchuria), and 1 in India (East India). That makes 3 in the west and 3 in the east.

Anyway, thanks for Sticky.

I changed Austria to connect to Switzerland and renamed it Austria & Czech, although now it has to be abbreviated.
I also renamed Norrland to Northland, although I'm not sure if Northland is a term that is used anywhere.

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Re: Eurasia [7.12.11] pg3

Postby tkr4lf on Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:00 pm

@Natty-
I think the "insults" and "digs" come because of your general attitude. It's the way you come off to people. Maybe it's not your intention, but you come off as somebody who thinks they know everything and couldn't give a shit what anybody else thinks. There is an air of superiority and condescension in your speech (or rather your typed words).

I'm not saying this to piss you off or bait you or whatever, just saying what pretty much everybody else thinks. Maybe you could work on that some, and people would be more friendly towards you.


On topic:
I like the look of the map. I have to agree with others on the naming, uniformity is better in that regard I think. I also agree with thenobodies on the Java issue, it would make more sense to include an island that is part of Eurasia over an island that is part of Oceania. Overall though, it's looking good. I will definitely play this one.
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Re: Eurasia [7.12.11] pg3

Postby natty dread on Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:26 pm

Tkr4lf, I don't really appreciate your "attitude" either. The way you come off right now is all holier-than-thou, like you have the right to judge my character or personality.

Also, I seriously doubt you are qualified to say what "everyone thinks". Speak for yourself, don't try to lend credibility to your arguments by pretending to represent some kind of imaginary majority.

Anyway, if you have a problem with me, you're welcome to discuss it somewhere else, with me or whoever you like. This map thread however is not the place for it. Any further posts on this subject will be ignored.


As for Java, it's already included on the map. There's a territory called Sumatra & Java. Furthermore, Sulawesi is definitely part of Asia, not Oceania.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulawesi
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Re: Eurasia [7.12.11] pg3

Postby DiM on Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:38 pm

so you have a map of eurasia that does not include the whole europe or the whole asia but funny enough it includes part of africa.
then you split this whole area into territories named after countries cities or generic regions while drawing many imaginary borders.
and speaking of the imaginary, you decided to add some fantasy mountains in various locations.

don't bother responding i know what your answer will be even though i can't see your posts ;)
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Re: Eurasia [7.12.11] pg3

Postby tkr4lf on Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:40 pm

natty_dread wrote:Tkr4lf, I don't really appreciate your "attitude" either. The way you come off right now is all holier-than-thou, like you have the right to judge my character or personality.

Also, I seriously doubt you are qualified to say what "everyone thinks". Speak for yourself, don't try to lend credibility to your arguments by pretending to represent some kind of imaginary majority.

Anyway, if you have a problem with me, you're welcome to discuss it somewhere else, with me or whoever you like. This map thread however is not the place for it. Any further posts on this subject will be ignored.


As for Java, it's already included on the map. There's a territory called Sumatra & Java. Furthermore, Sulawesi is definitely part of Asia, not Oceania.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulawesi

It's all good. I didn't expect anything less from you. I'll leave your thread in peace now. It's obvious constructive criticism isn't wanted.
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Re: Eurasia [7.12.11] pg3

Postby natty dread on Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:55 pm

tkr4lf wrote:It's obvious constructive criticism isn't wanted.


Well boo hoo.

Quit being such a fucking cry baby. I gave you a perfectly reasonable answer to your criticism, like I gave nobodies who you're parroting. If you come here acting all "yeah you're this huge asshole, see, but if you just do what I say then maybe you can redeem yourself, hur hur" then don't expect me to be all nicey-nicey to you.

Like anyone who actually bothers to read this thread can see, I've taken plenty of feedback and implemented plenty of changes that have been suggested by others, just like in any other map thread. I don't agree with every suggestion, but if I don't, I respond and give a reason for it. If that's too much to handle for your sensitive feelings, I'm sorry, I don't know how the f*ck I could sugar-coat it any more than I already do.


DiM wrote:so you have a map of eurasia that does not include the whole europe or the whole asia but funny enough it includes part of africa.
then you split this whole area into territories named after countries cities or generic regions while drawing many imaginary borders.
and speaking of the imaginary, you decided to add some fantasy mountains in various locations.

don't bother responding i know what your answer will be even though i can't see your posts ;)


Oh yeah, and this is the kind of "constructive feedback" I'm supposed to give reasonable answers to? Right..........
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Re: Eurasia [7.12.11] pg3

Postby tkr4lf on Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:01 pm

natty_dread wrote:
tkr4lf wrote:It's obvious constructive criticism isn't wanted.


Well boo hoo.

Quit being such a fucking cry baby. I gave you a perfectly reasonable answer to your criticism, like I gave nobodies who you're parroting. If you come here acting all "yeah you're this huge asshole, see, but if you just do what I say then maybe you can redeem yourself, hur hur" then don't expect me to be all nicey-nicey to you.

Like anyone who actually bothers to read this thread can see, I've taken plenty of feedback and implemented plenty of changes that have been suggested by others, just like in any other map thread. I don't agree with every suggestion, but if I don't, I respond and give a reason for it. If that's too much to handle for your sensitive feelings, I'm sorry, I don't know how the f*ck I could sugar-coat it any more than I already do.


DiM wrote:so you have a map of eurasia that does not include the whole europe or the whole asia but funny enough it includes part of africa.
then you split this whole area into territories named after countries cities or generic regions while drawing many imaginary borders.
and speaking of the imaginary, you decided to add some fantasy mountains in various locations.

don't bother responding i know what your answer will be even though i can't see your posts ;)


Oh yeah, and this is the kind of "constructive feedback" I'm supposed to give reasonable answers to? Right..........

My feelings aren't hurt at all. I couldn't give a shit less. I was just trying to help you out, let you know how you come off to people, as is evidenced by people's reactions toward you (see this thread, and others). But whatever guy, I don't know why I even tried. Anyway, as you said, this isn't the place for this. So, good day, sir.
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Re: Eurasia [7.12.11] pg3

Postby natty dread on Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:16 pm

So, anyway. I decided to change the bonus name of "Oceania" to "East Indies", which is more accurate. I don't like it totally, as it's too similar to East India, and they may get mixed up somehow, but it's the only name for the region that isn't hugely long (like Indonesian Archipelago, Maritime South-East Asia, etc...)

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Re: Eurasia [8.12.11] pg4

Postby natty dread on Thu Dec 08, 2011 3:23 am

Added a frame to the image.

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Re: Eurasia [7.12.11] pg2

Postby natty dread on Thu Dec 08, 2011 6:28 am

Victor Sullivan wrote:Also, I think it would do well to have a connection between UAE and East Iran or Oman and East Iran (UAE--East Iran being my personal preference, given their closeness in comparison).


Sullivan, I'm still waiting to hear why you think this should be done. I don't necessarily disagree, it's just I can't figure out the reason you're asking for this...
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