The Black Sea [July 2nd] V.2, Pg. 1 & 4

[cairnswk]

Nice start tkr4lf...

Things i like...imho
1. the sea is great
2. the land texture
3. the colours fit well together design wise and they appear OK colour-blind wise.
4. there is a good smattering of regions large and small, although i haven't examine gameplay to any detail

Things that could use improvement...eventually
1. border lines are pixelated
2. i think the territory font is quite heavy and looks bolded, some names i would have trouble reading. Perhaps something less bolded/heavy...along with the names in the Mediterranean - these are also hard to read...perhaps some outer glow might fix that.

Good start otherwise, i look forward to seeing where this goes.

[tkr4lf]

Nice start tkr4lf...

Thanks!

Things i like...imho
1. the sea is great
2. the land texture
3. the colours fit well together design wise and they appear OK colour-blind wise.
4. there is a good smattering of regions large and small, although i haven't examine gameplay to any detail

Thanks, but I'm surprised about the water. I mean, I think it looks ok, and definitely better than before, but I really think it could look better. Either way, thanks for the kind words.

Things that could use improvement...eventually
1. border lines are pixelated
2. i think the territory font is quite heavy and looks bolded, some names i would have trouble reading. Perhaps something less bolded/heavy...along with the names in the Mediterranean - these are also hard to read...perhaps some outer glow might fix that.

Pixelated border lines will be fixed in the next update.

Territory font will be as well. I actually used the bold version of Book Antiqua for them, I'm going to try the regular version. As long as I don't think they look like crap that way, then I'll include that in the next update and let you guys judge how it looks.

Good start otherwise, i look forward to seeing where this goes.

Again, thanks! Your kind words mean a lot, especially considering who they are coming from.

Keep an eye out, I'll have the next update soon. I've been kind of busy so far this weekend, but I will definitely have one out sometime this week.

And if you do get a chance to look at gameplay, can you give your thoughts on the last post on page 2?

[PereiroSaus]

Way to go, bro...!

I would clear the font a bit, yeah

[tkr4lf]

Way to go, bro...!

I would clear the font a bit, yeah

Thanks.



I'm working on the next update now. I've redrawn the terit borders, they look much better now, not pixelated anymore. I've merged some territs to make more room/ensure better clarity. Also enlarged the legend a bit to allow for more information. I've cleared up the font issue, I think. I'll let you guys be the judge of that. I've still got lots to do for this update though, so I won't be posting it for a while unless somebody really wants to see the few changes I've made so far.

[Industrial Helix]

Firstly let me say that I love the concept. However, I think your greens are to similar. I also think a minimap would be better than the colored words. Rivers or mountains would be an excellent addition as the map feels pretty wide open to me.

I can't honestly tell if the Aegean is a territory of its own, or if maybe that is Attica's circle just a bit misplaced. Tighten it up a bit, get circles as close as possible to the words. Unless absolutely necessary, put the circle and name on the land it belongs to. At the very worst, put the name at least partially on the land and the dot at the end of the word.

Also, what you have listed as Rhodes is not Rhodes, but actually Crete and that city is Heraklion. On your map, Rhodes is two islands east of Crete.

[tkr4lf]

Version 3:

Click image to enlarge.

New to Version 3:
- Added Impassables (Yes, they're not pretty. Yes, they're just mountains. I plan on doing forests as well, possibly some rivers. For now, I just wanted to get the impassables in place so I could get feedback on the placement and the effect on gameplay.)
- Added Sea Routes
- Fixed Territory Borders (Hopefully cleared up the pixelation issue, cleared up the issue with room for army numbers/circles, hopefully made the borders look more natural, deleted/merged some territories to make room for legend/army numbers/circles.)
- Changed the font. Hopefully it's not so strong now. Could use feedback on this issue.
- Fixed Rostov territory/city label issue.
- Fixed the Isle of Rhodes territory; Changed it to Crete. (Regarding IH's post, I could have sworn Rhodes was on Crete. I learn something new everyday. Will change the city name to Heraklion next update.)
- Got rid of drop shadow around the land and switched to an outer glow. Could use some feedback on how this looks.
- Removed black line from bottom of city icon to make it look more natural.
- Changed the legend. (Updated bonus values due to impassables being added, clarified assault routes for cities, changed the background for the legend.)
- I tried to make a minimap to show the bonus values, but had no luck with that. There wasn't enough room in the legend. Instead, I put the bonus values on the bonuses themselves. Could use feedback on how this looks. Also, will it be enough? Do I need to indicate the bonus values in the legend even though they're indicated on the bonuses themselves?
- Changed some territory names, adjusted some due to actual territory adjustments.
- Dropped any sea names that aren't playable territories.


Still to do:
-Come up with a better city icon.
-Graphically differentiate between victory condition cities and regular cities.
-Clean and spice up the legend.
-Make the water look more realistic.
-Spice up the map border.



Feedback I could use:
- How is the placement of the impassables? I don't need comments on how they look, I know they look like crap. The mountains will be redrawn later. How is the placement? Is the effect on gameplay ok?
- Is the font better now?
- Does the outer glow on the land look acceptable?

[tkr4lf]

Firstly let me say that I love the concept.

Thanks!

However, I think your greens are to similar. I also think a minimap would be better than the colored words. Rivers or mountains would be an excellent addition as the map feels pretty wide open to me.

Ok, I can work on making more difference in between the greens. Are there any in particular that are too similar? Or are they all too similar?

As for impassables, they were added in the latest update. Keep in mind, they look like crap, and were added solely to show the placement I had in mind and to gauge the effects on gameplay. The mountains will be redrawn, and I plan to mix it up with forests, mountains, and possibly rivers.

I can't honestly tell if the Aegean is a territory of its own, or if maybe that is Attica's circle just a bit misplaced. Tighten it up a bit, get circles as close as possible to the words. Unless absolutely necessary, put the circle and name on the land it belongs to. At the very worst, put the name at least partially on the land and the dot at the end of the word.

For now, the only body of water that is a playable territory is the Black Sea. All of the territory labels and army circles have been moved around as of the latest update, can you see if I have the same problem on this version?

Unfortunately you commented on Version 2 just before I uploaded version 3, so some of your complaints, etc. have been addressed, or at least I think they have. Any new comments/complaints on version 3 would be appreciated.

Also, what you have listed as Rhodes is not Rhodes, but actually Crete and that city is Heraklion. On your map, Rhodes is two islands east of Crete.

Wow. I swear, I have always thought that Rhodes was on Crete. I checked google maps to verify your information, and you are right. Amazing, I learn something new everyday! Thanks for noticing that, it will be fixed in the next update.

[Flapcake]

Looking better, still some work to do

The font you using, I like it realy much, fits the theme, but the drop shadow destroys the true design, its to sharp/strong and close, try just to have plain, if a effect are needed, outer glow wont have a huge impact on the font design, some times less is more.

the outer glow on border to the sea are certainly worth working on, suggestion make the transition more soft and wider, to give the effect that the sea are hitting the coast line.

army cirkles are not realy needed, they seems to cluttering up, maby only used for the sea, I dont know

(have to comment sorry) the mountain ranges are not bad, they just seems to "float" on top of the image, they dont look integrated, some shadow and color fade can fix it .

one question, how do ya assualt the Black sea ? and maby hold all 10 cities seems a little tough

Good work, encourage to keep goin

[Industrial Helix]

I like the changes you've made so far, but the city on Crete is Heraklion not Rhodes.

[tkr4lf]

I like the changes you've made so far, but the city on Crete is Heraklion not Rhodes.

Thanks. The Rhodes/Heraklion issue has been brought up, it will be changed.

Looking better, still some work to do

The font you using, I like it realy much, fits the theme, but the drop shadow destroys the true design, its to sharp/strong and close, try just to have plain, if a effect are needed, outer glow wont have a huge impact on the font design, some times less is more.

Hmm, I can try the font without any drop shadow, but it will look exactly like the font in the legend. Perhaps I could try lowering the opacity of the shadow even more, or adding more space in between the actual font and the shadow. Or I can try an outer glow. Anybody else have thoughts on this?

the outer glow on border to the sea are certainly worth working on, suggestion make the transition more soft and wider, to give the effect that the sea are hitting the coast line.

OK, I can work on it.

army cirkles are not realy needed, they seems to cluttering up, maby only used for the sea, I dont know

My main reason for having the army circles right now was to make sure all of the army numbers would fit. I figure if the army circle will fit, then the army numbers will fit as well. I can remove them if they just make it look cluttered.

(have to comment sorry) the mountain ranges are not bad, they just seems to "float" on top of the image, they dont look integrated, some shadow and color fade can fix it .

Haha, yeah, they look like crap. They're going to be completely redrawn eventually, so I'm not too worried about them "floating" since these particular mountains will be gone.

one question, how do ya assualt the Black sea ? and maby hold all 10 cities seems a little tough

As of now, the Black Sea can be assaulted by and assaults all bordering land territories. This can be changed if enough people think it should be. So far only one person has expressed concern about having it as a killer neutral that assaults and is assaulted by so many territories. Does anybody else agree that it should be changed? One thought on how to change it is to make it so that it can only be assaulted by and only assault territories that border it that also have a city in it, or perhaps the cities directly. I don't know. Just throwing out an idea.

Good work, encourage to keep goin

Thanks.


Unfortunately, I'm going to have to abandon this for a while. I'm leaving CC within the next few days. I don't know how long I'll be gone, it could be 6 months, it could be a couple of years. It's not exactly voluntary, so there's not much I can do about it.

I fully intend on working on this when I do get back.

I don't know exactly how this will be handled, since this doesn't have any stamps yet. Will it stay here in the drafting room, or will it be moved to abandoned?

I would prefer that nobody else take this up, since I really would like to work on it when I get back. But, it does seem to be a popular concept, so I guess if an established mapmaker really wants to take it up, then they can do so. I guess it's whatever at this point.

Sorry guys, I know I have a terrible track record on making maps, and this just makes it worse. But like I said, I fully intend on making this map once I get back, assuming nobody else has picked it up.

[The Bison King]

Hey alright. This is looking pretty cool.

[koontz1973]

tkr4lf, great start to this map. Lets see if you can take it all the way as I like it and it is showing great signs of promise.

A few things that might make this one a lot better though....
Can we have a mini map of the bonuses. The numbers on the map are kind of distracting and hard to see.
Legend needs finishing of.
The ten cities around the black sea, is there a way of making these ten stand out? With the extra 5 on the map, people will ask why they did not win when holding 9 + 1 of those.
Why is the Black sea a killer neutral? What is so dangerous about this sea? Might be better to see a decay instead, what are your thoughts?

koontz

[tkr4lf]

Hey alright. This is looking pretty cool.

Thanks.

tkr4lf, great start to this map. Lets see if you can take it all the way as I like it and it is showing great signs of promise.

A few things that might make this one a lot better though....
Can we have a mini map of the bonuses. The numbers on the map are kind of distracting and hard to see.
Legend needs finishing of.
The ten cities around the black sea, is there a way of making these ten stand out? With the extra 5 on the map, people will ask why they did not win when holding 9 + 1 of those.
Why is the Black sea a killer neutral? What is so dangerous about this sea? Might be better to see a decay instead, what are your thoughts?

koontz

Thanks.

I had planned on differentiating between the victory condition cities and normal cities graphically. I had also planned to try to make a mini map of the bonuses.

As for the Black Sea being a killer neutral, it was suggested earlier in the thread and I really liked the idea. I don't really have a thematic reason for it, it just seems like a good gameplay addition.




But, I'll repost it here, because I think perhaps it was missed:


Unfortunately, I'm going to have to abandon this for a while. I'm leaving CC within the next few weeks. I don't know how long I'll be gone, it could be 6 months, it could be a couple of years. It's not exactly voluntary, so there's not much I can do about it.

I fully intend on working on this when I do get back.

I don't know exactly how this will be handled, since this doesn't have any stamps yet. Will it stay here in the drafting room, or will it be moved to abandoned?

I would prefer that nobody else take this up, since I really would like to work on it when I get back. But, it does seem to be a popular concept, so I guess if an established mapmaker really wants to take it up, then they can do so. I guess it's whatever at this point.

Sorry guys, I know I have a terrible track record on making maps, and this just makes it worse. But like I said, I fully intend on making this map once I get back, assuming nobody else has picked it up.

[koontz1973]

Thanks tkr4lf. Sorry to see you go. Can move it back when you get back.

[Moved]

The development of this map has been put on hold as the map maker cannot continue.

koontz

[tkr4lf]

I'm back around, so I'd like to start on this again. What do I need to do to get this moved back into the drafting room? Just let me know and I'll work on it. Thanks.