Hannibal: Trebia 218 BC *VACATION PLEASE*

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Hannibal: Trebia 218 BC *VACATION PLEASE*

Postby chaos32679 on Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:07 pm

*** VACATION ***



Map Name: Hannibal: Trebia 218 BC
Mapmaker(s): chaos32679
Number of Territories: 42
Special Features: fixed starting locations, auto deploys, killer neutrals (complete resets and -1), one way assaults, bombardments
What Makes This Map Worthy of Being Made: Hannibal Barca was arguably the greatest military strategist of all time. This is the first of 3 maps (Trasimene 217 BC, Cannae 216 BC) that will showcase how strategy can overcome numbers in battle.

Map Image:
V3
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V2
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V1
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Last edited by chaos32679 on Mon May 07, 2012 5:14 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Hannibal: Trebia 218 BC [04.07.2012] *Feedback Requested

Postby Flapcake on Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:24 am

I like the layout of the map, but the font you using makes it all blur together, I simple have to concentrate to much for reading that I gave up, the font are a nice looking font, but when its that small it dosent do any thing good :?

The legen explanation (rules of engagement) confuses me, when i look at a legen it have to be clear and readeble.

I realy like your graphic style and its certainly worth working with :)

Btw is this the small or large version ?
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Re: Hannibal: Trebia 218 BC [04.07.2012] *Feedback Requested

Postby chaos32679 on Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:32 am

This is the small version, wanted to make sure everything fit. And i agree with you on the font. I've tried so many different one's, this is the only one that is sorta what i want.

For this map i wanted to go with a handwritten/hand drawn look and feel, kinda as if you are drawing up your battle plan. That is why the dotted lines are not precise, and the font is similar to handwriting.

Other than the font, was anything about the legend/key confusing? does the gameplay make sense?
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Re: Hannibal: Trebia 218 BC [04.07.2012] *Feedback Requested

Postby Flapcake on Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:52 am

chaos32679 wrote:This is the small version, wanted to make sure everything fit. And i agree with you on the font. I've tried so many different one's, this is the only one that is sorta what i want.


I know how it is, and I have the same stuggle whit my maps. It good you starting with the small version, so any of this kind of problems will get solved now.

chaos32679 wrote:For this map i wanted to go with a handwritten/hand drawn look and feel, kinda as if you are drawing up your battle plan. That is why the dotted lines are not precise, and the font is similar to handwriting.


Thats also what I like about the layout. But the type of font makes it blurry.


chaos32679 wrote:Other than the font, was anything about the legend/key confusing? does the gameplay make sense?


I think a use of icons would make the legend faster to understand, Im not the sharpest knife in the tray, Its hard for me to get a overview. Are the letters abbreviations of some thing ?

I can see the idea of the gameplay and find it appealing, Thers many here who are much more experts in gameplay than me, they will definitely give some comments.
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Re: Hannibal: Trebia 218 BC [04.07.2012] *Feedback Requested

Postby chaos32679 on Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:50 pm

How bout this? Added a key in bottom left, and changed the font...

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Re: Hannibal: Trebia 218 BC [04.10.2012] *Updated, Feedback*

Postby Flapcake on Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:17 pm

This font are much more readable. You have greate graphics skills and I will wait untill you have reach the red and green stamp to comment on the graphics, if any, ;)

you need some with more expirence in gameplay to comment on it, but I like your new "key" Its easyer to understand now.

keep it goin ;)
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Re: Hannibal: Trebia 218 BC [04.10.2012] *Updated, Feedback*

Postby chaos32679 on Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:11 am

the font i like, dont know if im crazy about the key, that extra sheet down there seems overkill to me. think im gonna rearrange things a little bit.
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Re: Hannibal: Trebia 218 BC [04.10.2012] *Updated, Feedback*

Postby Anthrax821 on Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:58 am

I think the font will be ok on the large map. I think the insturctions are clear.

My gripe with maps like this are sometimes unit/territory numbers just start to blend. Its liek I am looking at a math problem instead of a map or graphic.

The other thing (and this may not be changeable and is actually a minor compliant has to do with the way gameplay has to be since this is CC and just a game). A senario like this is an A vs B senario. Two sides of a war. CC makes it difficult to accomplish that with the drops and everything. Maps really arent two sided and if people play on teams its even more chaotic. You have roman units attacking roman units but they really dont seem to be able to attack the C units. there is a one way assault from RH but that is the only clear attcking path from R to C. Can RF or RR attack the C they border? This is the confusing part. Also, I assume the colors C units are starting points. So everyone is Carthage and just trying to blast everyone else?
To win do people need to essentially just load up and work toward the starting points to eliminate the opponents C units?

Great concept of a map, hard to pull off in CC.
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Re: Hannibal: Trebia 218 BC [04.10.2012] *Updated, Feedback*

Postby chaos32679 on Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:21 am

theres a line from the roman front to the carthaginian front also roman rear to the ambushers, right? my main concern is gameplay, it would b awesome if some cartographer would actually look at the map and let me know, before i put more time into it...
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Re: Hannibal: Trebia 218 BC [04.10.2012] *Updated, Feedback*

Postby Anthrax821 on Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:35 am

I saw the line. Just wanted to make sure that was an attack line because all the special instructions on the side.
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Re: Hannibal: Trebia 218 BC [04.13.2012] *Updated, Feedback*

Postby chaos32679 on Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:49 am

Ok, rearranged things, i like it better this way...

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Re: Hannibal: Trebia 218 BC [04.13.2012] *Updated, Feedback*

Postby thenobodies80 on Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:58 am

Hello chaos32679,

On the whole i like the map, specially because it's about a historical event that has taken place not too far from where I live. ;)

Here some initial thoughts
I would suggest you to enlarge the battle area, to make clear the connections and to be able to add some nice graphics later, when in the graphics stage.
If I look at your map I read that RM lines can attack the Cartaginian Cavalry Units on both sides, well it's probably accurate from an historical point of view, but it's not so clear looking at the map itself. Infact if I look at the map I think that from RM4 I have to move to north and go through RM3,RM2 to reach RM1 and then RH1, but th elegend let me think that i can attack directly RH1 from RM4. If use more space for the battleground, instead of use it only for legend, backstory, it would be easier to gather the map while playing without having to read the legend all time.

Then, I understand the gameplay reason behind bombardments, but why cavalry can bombard roman lines? I know elephants were used to throw arrows in battles, but their strong point was to use the mole of this animals to cause terror in the enemy lines and break their lines. If i have an elephant i would go directly against my enemy, specially if he is just an infantry unit. On the opposite i see roman cavalry was used in the right way and I like the one way option.

From a pure gameplay point of view, so without considering the backstory events, the major flaw i see is the fact that in the way you set the starting positions will surely push players to stack armies and try to kill opponents without go through the decay area. So probably in a 8 player game it will end with 2 players, one on the ambush side and the other on the front side that stack and wait to kill each other. You should consider all possible settings when you try to develope a map, so if you think about a 8players escalating game, or worst to a assassin game....imagine if the player that start in CR4 has to kill the one in CR3....i bet it won't be a so fun game, maybe quick, but certainly not funny....at least for those who will lose in few turns.

My suggestion is to try to "force" players to fight instead of stack, maybe you can force the hand on history and add cartaginian and roman camps and make this map a just 1vs1 map, give to player the possibility to create a different historical ending for this famous battle. Make it a sort of Carthago vs Romae map, if you get what I mean. ;)
Instead if you want to keep it as a multiplayer map (from 2 to 8 players), then you certainly have to change a bit the positions and , like I said previously, force the players to go throught the middle, maybe give them an incentive...because right now stay in the middle gives to the player only disadvantages (decay, killer neutrals)

These are my very initial thoughts looking at the map, I'll try to give you more inputs soon...but on the whole it looks a nice project that can come out nicely if developed in the proper way!

Keep it on!
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Re: Hannibal: Trebia 218 BC [04.13.2012] *Updated, Feedback*

Postby chaos32679 on Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:55 am

i'd like it to be playable for 2-8. suggestions on how to change it to accomodate? im having a mental block...
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Re: Hannibal: Trebia 218 BC [04.13.2012] *Updated, Feedback*

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:27 pm

chaos, I love what you have done so far. If you want to keep it as an all range map and not go for the 1v1 type of play, then can I suggest that you do a couple of things.

You have a lot of text describing attack/bombards. See if this can be reduced some by adding a couple of simple symbols. Look at Stalingrad and Trench Warfair (final forge) for ideas.

This then should give you a lot more room to add some new territs and connections.

koontz
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Re: Hannibal: Trebia 218 BC [04.13.2012] *Updated, Feedback*

Postby chaos32679 on Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:47 am

after some serious thought, i think im going to go the 1v1 route. hope to have an update posted by this weekend.
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Re: Hannibal: Trebia 218 BC [04.13.2012] *Updated, Feedback*

Postby isaiah40 on Tue Apr 24, 2012 12:56 pm

chaos32679 wrote:after some serious thought, i think im going to go the 1v1 route. hope to have an update posted by this weekend.

Make sure you pm thenobodies80 about your intention to do a 1v1 map.
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Re: Hannibal: Trebia 218 BC [04.13.2012] *Updated, Feedback*

Postby chaos32679 on Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:53 pm

isaiah40 wrote:
chaos32679 wrote:after some serious thought, i think im going to go the 1v1 route. hope to have an update posted by this weekend.

Make sure you pm thenobodies80 about your intention to do a 1v1 map.


already did. sample should be done tonight or tomorrow, then i'll shoot that over to him for approval...
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Re: Hannibal: Trebia 218 BC [04.13.2012] *Updated, Feedback*

Postby isaiah40 on Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:08 pm

chaos32679 wrote:
isaiah40 wrote:
chaos32679 wrote:after some serious thought, i think im going to go the 1v1 route. hope to have an update posted by this weekend.

Make sure you pm thenobodies80 about your intention to do a 1v1 map.


already did. sample should be done tonight or tomorrow, then i'll shoot that over to him for approval...

Good, just wanted to make sure you knew to do that ;)
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Re: Hannibal: Trebia 218 BC [04.13.2012] *Updated, Feedback*

Postby chaos32679 on Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:54 pm

isaiah40 wrote:
chaos32679 wrote:
isaiah40 wrote:
chaos32679 wrote:after some serious thought, i think im going to go the 1v1 route. hope to have an update posted by this weekend.

Make sure you pm thenobodies80 about your intention to do a 1v1 map.


already did. sample should be done tonight or tomorrow, then i'll shoot that over to him for approval...

Good, just wanted to make sure you knew to do that ;)


Thank you sir, much appreciated...
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Re: Hannibal: Trebia 218 BC [04.13.2012] *Updated, Feedback*

Postby happy2seeyou on Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:43 pm

For only having two pages of comments, this map looks really nice. I like the work on the knife at the top. Also the concept and layout of this map is different from a lot of others.
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Re: Hannibal: Trebia 218 BC [04.13.2012] *Updated, Feedback*

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:54 pm

The gameplay of this map is quite outside my comfort zone, so I probably won't be able to speak much on that front.

But on the overall aesthetic, I like what you have going and I think it is pretty unique. Look forward to seeing it develop more. I'll check back, hopefully with more to comment on!


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Re: Hannibal: Trebia 218 BC [04.13.2012] *Updated, Feedback*

Postby chaos32679 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:41 am

Thanks guys, your feedback is greatly appreciated. I have sent over a sample of the new gameplay for the 1 on 1 style. Soon as i get that approved i will post, then we'll go from there...
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Re: Hannibal: Trebia 218 BC [04.13.2012] *Updated, Feedback*

Postby chaos32679 on Fri May 04, 2012 7:18 am

Cartographers, someone, anyone... THROW ME A BONE....
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Re: Hannibal: Trebia 218 BC [04.13.2012] *Updated, Feedback*

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri May 04, 2012 9:26 am

chaos32679 wrote:Cartographers, someone, anyone... THROW ME A BONE....

Try working on a couple of items on your own in a new update. Most often, posters will see a new update or image, and will wander in to respond! Additionally, if you post some points of discussion or questions you may have, that can help drive people to respond, since you've given them a focus.

Best,


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Re: Hannibal: Trebia 218 BC [04.13.2012] *Updated, Feedback*

Postby chaos32679 on Fri May 04, 2012 3:07 pm

well, since i decided to make this a 1v1 map, i need to get the gameplay approved first, and i haven't heard back in a while. So, i guess i'll post what i sent and see what i get back from comments.

Click image to enlarge.
image


Now, at this point, i'm looking for strictly gameplay ideas. keep in mind this is a 1 on 1 map.

Also, i know the img has green AND red at each camp, but each player will only start with one of these, just put it there to show that either player will start at either spot, its not like player 1 always starts in one spot and player two always starts in the other, if that makes sense.

Really want to get this map made, so any and all comments are welcomed...
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