Arshyusk

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Arshyusk

Postby ManBungalow on Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:28 am

Number of Territories: 43

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There's nothing particularly special about this map. It's something relatively simple, and I'm hoping that it will progress through the foundry at a good pace and be my first map quenched. The bonuses are slightly bigger than is usually expected, but the region-count bonus is adjusted accordingly.

There are already fantasy maps on the site. This looks a little different, but still has classical gameplay at heart. Also, that Keatque bonus...I've always wanted to see a region like K5 be accessible only through a different bonus. Let's see how it goes, I guess.
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Re: Arshyusk

Postby Arama86n on Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:37 am

We can always use a few more "standard" type of maps, and I agree the K5 touch should be very interesting. It's an attractive map, I look forward to playing on it. Good luck with the foundry process.
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Re: Arshyusk

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:07 am

Map Name:
Mapmaker(s):
Number of Territories:
Special Features:
What Makes This Map Worthy of Being Made:

Thread title. Name/date/version/page.
Come on ManB, you should know this by now. :roll:

As for the map, I love it. It is very unique is graphical style and what not. But tell me a story. Where is this place and who is fighting? Make me believe that this is a real place with a real war.

A couple of suggestions for you.
2 troops for every 3 territs. This gives player 1 an 8 drop in round 1 for 2 and 3 player games. Way to large. Game over by the end of turn 2. Please rethink this. But do play with the drops.
Title needs to be bolder, what I mean is to get it to stand out some.
Territ lines go under the army symbols, remove these ones.
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Re: Arshyusk

Postby Teflon Kris on Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:02 pm

Very nice

=D> =D>
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Re: Arshyusk

Postby IcePack on Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:25 pm

Interesting :)
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12:11:16 ‹Swifte› good thing we have the beta program to weed all these problems out
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Re: Arshyusk

Postby DiM on Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:11 pm

i'm always in favour of fantasy maps but these maps must excel in gameplay and graphics as well as theme because they don't have the advantage of being a map about a real life familiar place.
right now you have a completely bland classic-style gameplay and your theme is non-existent. you have a made up title and that's it. what's the deal here? are those kingdoms? is a war going on? who fights it? even the terit names are so bland (A1,A2...) that they don't allow your imagination to go free. there's an eagle(?) used as army circles and that's a starting point for my imagination, but then i see the eagle is the same for all continents so that's a dead end.
as for the graphics, the map looks like a randomly generated image (probably done with clouds/difference clouds) and this surely doesn't help because it gives the feeling of a rush-job.
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Re: Arshyusk

Postby zimmah on Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:52 pm

DiM wrote:i'm always in favour of fantasy maps but these maps must excel in gameplay and graphics as well as theme because they don't have the advantage of being a map about a real life familiar place.
right now you have a completely bland classic-style gameplay and your theme is non-existent. you have a made up title and that's it. what's the deal here? are those kingdoms? is a war going on? who fights it? even the terit names are so bland (A1,A2...) that they don't allow your imagination to go free. there's an eagle(?) used as army circles and that's a starting point for my imagination, but then i see the eagle is the same for all continents so that's a dead end.
as for the graphics, the map looks like a randomly generated image (probably done with clouds/difference clouds) and this surely doesn't help because it gives the feeling of a rush-job.


DiM, not everyone makes masterpieces as their first draft, i think it's a nice map and i'd probably play it :)
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Re: Arshyusk

Postby ManBungalow on Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:56 pm

DiM wrote:i'm always in favour of fantasy maps but these maps must excel in gameplay and graphics as well as theme because they don't have the advantage of being a map about a real life familiar place.
right now you have a completely bland classic-style gameplay and your theme is non-existent. you have a made up title and that's it. what's the deal here? are those kingdoms? is a war going on? who fights it? even the terit names are so bland (A1,A2...) that they don't allow your imagination to go free. there's an eagle(?) used as army circles and that's a starting point for my imagination, but then i see the eagle is the same for all continents so that's a dead end.
as for the graphics, the map looks like a randomly generated image (probably done with clouds/difference clouds) and this surely doesn't help because it gives the feeling of a rush-job.

For fucks sake.

I'm sick of you coming into my map threads and giving this kind of shit every time.

Some people come to the foundry and give constructive criticism - okay, great, that's what it's all about.
Sometimes it's best to tell the map-maker that their skills would be better applied elsewhere (3 Islands, for instance), but you seem to enjoy coming in here and pissing on my map ideas for the sake of it.

Last time I tried to give you some feedback in one of your map threads, you didn't even acknowledge my post.

It's too easy to comment on foundry elitism, and I think we've heard it all before, but maybe that's not the problem here.

I don't mean to pull a natty dread, but move this to the recycling bin/whatever and I'll be back in a few weeks to see where I'll go with it.
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Re: Arshyusk

Postby DiM on Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:59 pm

zimmah wrote:
DiM wrote:i'm always in favour of fantasy maps but these maps must excel in gameplay and graphics as well as theme because they don't have the advantage of being a map about a real life familiar place.
right now you have a completely bland classic-style gameplay and your theme is non-existent. you have a made up title and that's it. what's the deal here? are those kingdoms? is a war going on? who fights it? even the terit names are so bland (A1,A2...) that they don't allow your imagination to go free. there's an eagle(?) used as army circles and that's a starting point for my imagination, but then i see the eagle is the same for all continents so that's a dead end.
as for the graphics, the map looks like a randomly generated image (probably done with clouds/difference clouds) and this surely doesn't help because it gives the feeling of a rush-job.


DiM, not everyone makes masterpieces as their first draft, i think it's a nice map and i'd probably play it :)


don't get me wrong, the graphics are actually pretty nice especially for a first draft. i was just concerned about the feeling that map gave me.
if somebody hand draws all the borders then i can see how the continents and terits followed the gameplay. when i see a randomly generated image then it's clear the gameplay followed the graphics.

basically you randomly generate a landscape like that and then you simply place some icons where you want terits.

this is wrong because you should never adapt gameplay to graphics, it should be vice versa. sure, with classic gameplay you can do this because classic gameplay has little implications and is easily adapted. plus the bonuses can be deduced with a formula. but still the rush-job feeling is there. and again, when i say rush-job i don't mean poor graphics, i mean what i said above about how the graphics are obtained.
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Re: Arshyusk

Postby DiM on Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:11 pm

ManBungalow wrote:For fucks sake.

I'm sick of you coming into my map threads and giving this kind of shit every time.



yeah, because you have hundreds of map threads and i'm part of some sort of conspiracy to troll youin each and everyone of them.
get over yourself. i merely post my opinion on a certain map. the fact that you don't like my opinions and can't take criticism is solely your problem.

as far as i know your only maps are marooned where i commented on the water and expressed my concern on the many gameplay bottlenecks and this map.

none of my posts where "omg you suck get out of here". in fact both of them contained valid points of view that you can either take into consideration or dismiss with proper arguments.

and that talk about elitism is pure crap. i've criticised both old and new mapmakers without ever thinking how many maps they made. in fact with experienced mapmakers i tend to be even more concentrated on nitpicks to the point where i totally annoy some of them. just ask cairnswk. but that's because i have higher expectations from them.
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Re: Arshyusk

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:24 pm

ManBungalow wrote:move this to the recycling bin/whatever and I'll be back in a few weeks to see where I'll go with it.


[Moved] to ideas as requested.

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Re: Arshyusk

Postby Teflon Kris on Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:54 pm

DiM wrote:i'm always in favour of fantasy maps but these maps must excel in gameplay and graphics as well as theme because they don't have the advantage of being a map about a real life familiar place.


Maps about real-life familiar places should excel whereas maps like this have the quality of the creators' imagination and the players imagination.

I'm sure it doesn't say anything in the millenia of requrements that fantasy mapshave extra graphics and gameplay threasholds?

Not that the individual points raised aren't valid though. The overall philosophy gives the impression that the individual points aren't worth working-on, when I'm sure you intended to be constructive.

Maybe it is ideal for the setting to comefirst, gameplay to fit the setting then graphics be created around these. But this need not always be the case as in Pirates and Merchants.

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Re: Arshyusk

Postby DiM on Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:48 pm

DJ Teflon wrote:I'm sure it doesn't say anything in the millenia of requrements that fantasy mapshave extra graphics and gameplay threasholds?


what i meant to say was that if one makes a map of a continent/country/city he already has a group of people that will play that map no matter what. (the ones that live in that continent/country/city). that's why classic is the most played map and the main choice for the risk game. because everybody can relate to it. gameplay wise it's not even that brilliant. i've seen maps with better gameplay pass through here.

so when a new guy joins and wants to play a map he'll see the map of his continent/country/city and this map. guess which one he'll choose.
that's why a fantasy map needs to excel in all compartments in order to gather fans. the gameplay must be balanced and fun (even if it's a classic style), the theme must be catchy (pirates, zombies, SF, whatever) and the graphics must be top notch.
graphics and theme catch the player's attention and convince him to try the map. good gameplay convinces him to come again and play more games.

a randomly generated map with no theme will not attract anybody.
you see, the basis of this map can be created in a matter of minutes using a few filters. and if you save it as an action then all you have to do is create a new document and start that action and in seconds you'll have a differently generated map each and every time.
then colour the continents and add connections.
if my memory serves me right i think i've even seen a gimp script that created such random maps with a simple click.
this cheapens the whole idea of mapmaking.
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Re: Arshyusk

Postby natty dread on Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:06 am

The thing about fantasy maps is that they need to have a strong theme. They need to have a story. To an extent this is true of all maps, but as DiM said it is especially important for fantasy maps as they don't have a real world setting to fall back on. And it's even more especially important for fictional maps that are based on original content by the mapmaker.

Let me explain in simple terms: when you have a map of, say, Kamchatka, or the 1759 sausage war of Moravia, or something, there's a clear geographical and/or historical context for the map that supports it, that builds the story/theme for the map to stand on. There's not much extra explanation needed - everyone knows the setting when the map is about a real world country, or a real world historical battle. Oh, some framework and theme building is still necessary, but the map is mostly self-explanatory.

Then, you have fictional maps. Now, if there's an established story behind the fictional map, like Lord of the rings or Discworld or something, the map again has a ready-made context that helps build the background for the map. The more well-known the fiction the map is based on, the less explanation is needed - although it's still more than real-world-based maps, since not everyone is familiar with every work of fiction.

And lastly, you have fictional maps based on original content - for example: Age of Realms, King's Court, Thyseneal. These maps are the hardest to make, as they don't have a clearly-established thematic framework to prop them up, so they have to rely on something else to make them interesting. The map must be able to build a theme, a context to place the map in, by it's own merits. AoR and King's court both have strong gameplay dynamics that integrate well with the theme of the map. The maps are able to tell their own stories simply by being what they are.

This map currently doesn't yet have that. There needs to be more of a story behind the map. Think of a story you want to tell with your map, think about what the players are fighting for when they play the map, what the motivation is. When you have figured that out, build the gameplay and graphics around that central idea. Every element of the map needs to play well together - the gameplay and graphics must both support the theme.
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Re: Arshyusk

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:26 pm

I think this map has a lot of potential, and I even think it doesn't need an intricate story either. I liked Patch Wars really because it didn't really have an intricate story, and the same goes for some of the other fantasy or non-real world maps.

Keep trucking this map. I'd probably play it over your Marooned idea, but I kind of like that one as well.


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Re: Arshyusk

Postby Gillipig on Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:55 am

Coming up with a fictional backstory doesn't need to be difficult or very time consuming. Here's a quick mock up:
In the ancient world of Arshyusk, eight kingdoms vie for power. The ruthless kingdom of Radocer, led by King Rado IV have the most influence. Their ferociousness in battle is contained only through the united efforts of three kingdoms, Draryn, Ewaro and Banend. But these kingdoms have no love for one another. Their alliance is fragile and it's dissolution would threaten to the very balance of Arshyusk.
And then it goes on.....
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Re: Arshyusk

Postby x-raider on Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:02 am

Indeed.

And then one day the tiger showed up... and all hell broke loose. :p
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