hellenic wars, bin it

[Oneyed]

Map Name:Peloponnesian Wars II
Mapmaker(s):Oneyed
Number of Territories:69
Special Features:this is the first map when players must care who are their "allies" also in non team games.
What Makes This Map Worthy of Being Made:

Map Image:

gameplay: each player start with one Capital and 4 another regions (8 players), 5 another regions (7 players), 6 another regions (6 players), 7 another regions (5 players). the Neutral regions and Fleets start neutral in each game.

all fleet will start neutral, all independent regions will start neutrals. and here is map with neutral numbers for regions which belongs to any continent. these will be codded everytime as neutrals.

except independent regions and fleet there are 44 regions. 8 are capitals, so 36 to distribute between players. in 8 game = 4 and 4 neutrals. in 7 game = 4 and 8 neutrals. in 6 game = 5 and 6 neutrals. and so on...

now I can see one big problem: between Athenai and Thebai is only 1 region on both attack ways: Athenai - Delion - Thebai or Athenai - Megara - Thebai. so if both will start as 3 neutrals will this solve problem?

last version with changed postions of capitals.
now no capitals are closer then 2 regions. and in each sea is only one capital too, so it looks balanced now.

Click image to enlarge.

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early versions

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thanks to Qwert for his mountains and "window" of enlarge Korinthos and Megara position. also for border around map. qwert gives me permision to use these things. so I do not see problem here.

Oneyed

[Oneyed]

I think this should be interesting map with interesting gameplay.

so all help from gameplay experts are welcome. btw, who are good gameplay experts?

also will need help with English. thanks.

Oneyed

[thenobodies80]

What do you mean with "thanks to qwert..."?

[koontz1973]

qwert did some of the graphics it looks like.

Oneyed, I am looking at the map, but am having a hard time understanding somethings. But what do you mean about what you said in the special features bit. Why should I care about my non team mates and how is that brought into the map.

[Oneyed]

What do you mean with "thanks to qwert..."?

no more comments?

qwert did some of the graphics it looks like.

I took mountains, Corinth window and border around map from his Peloponnesian Wars map.

Oneyed, I am looking at the map, but am having a hard time understanding somethings.

what exactly?

But what do you mean about what you said in the special features bit. Why should I care about my non team mates and how is that brought into the map.

there are 2 main powers. each one is divided to 4 continents and each player will play for one continent. so also in non team games 4 players will play for on power. and this is brought into map by bonuses:

+1 for each 2 enemy regions (so from the oposite power),
- 1 for each 3 regions without their Capitals from 3 rest continents from power for which you play.

example: you play for Sparta, so your allies are Corinthos, Macedonia, Thebes. if you hold 2 regions from Corinthos and 1 region from Macedonia you have -1. but when you take Corinthos (Capital) the negative bonus for Corinthos regions is not more valid...

maybe I will need some help with text.

Oneyed

[natty dread]

You should start from the large map. Also, you should do your own graphics and not copy them from another map.

[Oneyed]

You should start from the large map.

yes. I did small one to see how much space I will have.

Also, you should do your own graphics and not copy them from another map.

everything is my work. just mountains, Corinth window and border around map are from qwert. I have permision from him to use these things...

Oneyed

[koontz1973]

So if I understand you correctly, you may get games of 8 players and in those games, it will be like two mini games on the same board with each game trying to win there objective first whilst trying to stop the other one from getting it. Then in a 2 player game, you will have either type of battles or fastest one to the objective will win. What about odd number games? So you can have 2 players starting on one side and the other one on his own. This would not make for good games.

[Oneyed]

So if I understand you correctly, you may get games of 8 players and in those games, it will be like two mini games on the same board with each game trying to win there objective first whilst trying to stop the other one from getting it.

if the game will not be team game, each player will play alone. only one player could wins. there is never said that players from the same League can not assault each other. just bonuses are set up so. and if you quickly take Capital of member of "your" League you will eliminate him from game and you will have also bigger bonus for his Capital and regions. you just need to find exactly time and situation when attack member of "your" league.

Then in a 2 player game, you will have either type of battles or fastest one to the objective will win.

?

What about odd number games? So you can have 2 players starting on one side and the other one on his own. This would not make for good games.

as I wrote upper, the gameplay (bonuses) are set up so. but in 3 players game also these 2 who will play for the same League are rivals. and I think they will not long cooperate...

Oneyed

[thenobodies80]

just mountains, Corinth window and border around map are from qwert. I have permision from him to use these things...

Please, ask to qwert to send me a PM or to post here he gave you the permission to use them. Thanks

btw you should ask him the layer for the mountains and not cut/paste them....it will look much better.

[nolefan5311]

I think you need to accentuate the differences in the two groups of League Members a little better as I'm slightly colorblind, so it's hard for me to differentiate between the colors.

[DJ Teflon]

I'll have a good look and see if I can be useful game-play-wise one-eyed.

First gamelay though that springs to mind is maybe a losing condition?

I'm sure you could easy make a border,maybe the corinth box is ok to kind-of replicate as its geographical (you could easilydo a similar inset box in a different style or shape though) but the mountains are gonna be a hard task unless qwert gives you permission (he is active so you can always ask).

[GoranZ]

6 capitals are extremely close to each other... for quads few players wont even move(since in theory they can get 0 units drop).

Athenai(and few others) borders 2 seas, does it have harbors on both of them?

Can u consider changing the name of the map?... it doesn't have a lot on common with pelo 1 so a lot of players will be surprised.

P.S. The map has potentials.

[Oneyed]

Please, ask to qwert to send me a PM or to post here he gave you the permission to use them. Thanks

hope, he wrote you

btw you should ask him the layer for the mountains and not cut/paste them....it will look much better.

I work on my own mountains. for now they looks ugly

I think you need to accentuate the differences in the two groups of League Members a little better as I'm slightly colorblind, so it's hard for me to differentiate between the colors.

ok,will try to do the best

I'll have a good look and see if I can be useful game-play-wise one-eyed.

sounds great. thanks

First gamelay though that springs to mind is maybe a losing condition?

there is losing condition. written in Objectives (maybe wrong place...): When your Capital falls all is lost!

I'm sure you could easy make a border,maybe the corinth box is ok to kind-of replicate as its geographical (you could easilydo a similar inset box in a different style or shape though) but the mountains are gonna be a hard task unless qwert gives you permission (he is active so you can always ask).

except Corinth box I will do everything myself. the Corinth box has a little different look as qwerts. I already have permision.

6 capitals are extremely close to each other...

I´ve tried to go according to history. Sparta, Athenai must stay, but I believe the others could be change...

for quads few players wont even move(since in theory they can get 0 units drop).

this is realy theory. in 8 games each has 4 regions and Capital, in 6 games each has 6 regions and Capital, in 4 games each has 9 regions and capital - here it looks more reality as theory could be in 4 games more regions neutral from start?

or I can do negative bonus "-1 for each 4 regions without their Capitals of the same League members...

Athenai(and few others) borders 2 seas, does it have harbors on both of them?

now I see what you mean. no they have harbour where have anchor. I did not saw way how to made sea borders more clear. will be enough when in legend I will mention that harbour is in the sea where is anchor located?

Can u consider changing the name of the map?... it doesn't have a lot on common with pelo 1 so a lot of players will be surprised.

yes. but how? this is Peloponnesian wars. will think about name.

P.S. The map has potentials.

thanks. I wish to finish it

thanks to everybody for comments, advices. I will do my best

Oneyed

[Dukasaur]

Your English is pretty good, but if there's any problems I'll be happy to help with that aspect.

So far only one mistake: "Fleets lose 1 army per turn" not "Fleets lost 1 army per turn" but I'll have a closer look at the end of the week.

It would be nice to have a map that reflects the real strategic issues in the Pelo War. Good work!