Master of Elements [05 Sep 2012] [p.3.3] - Territ Text?

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Re: Master of Elements [28 Aug 2012] [p.1/1] - Scroll Map?

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:47 pm

[Moved Back]

barrack, looking good and moved back to the drafting room. Will take a look later today and see what I can see.

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Re: Master of Elements [28 Aug 2012] [p.1/1] - Scroll Map?

Postby thehippo8 on Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:53 am

I much prefer the scroll map. Although on my screen the islands look too faded - can hardly see them!
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Re: Master of Elements [28 Aug 2012] [p.1/1] - Scroll Map?

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:11 am

barrack, as promised, here are some thoughts for you.

Scroll is the way to go. But the one you have is a shitty jpeg that you have enlarged. This is going to be a real sticking point for the map and the hardest one you will have to overcome. Go and find a royalty free one that is larger than your map. Scaling down is always going to look better than scaling up.

With your islands, they are now very washed out. What are your aims with these as I will advise you when I know.

Text, find one that fits the map. If you do not have one, you can go to dafont and down load one that is free.

Give your title a more prominent placing. Make it larger.

Let me know if you need any help.
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Re: Master of Elements [28 Aug 2012] [p.1/1] - Scroll Map?

Postby barrack on Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:02 pm

Thanks koontz. Look forward to an update in a week or so.
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Re: Master of Elements [28 Aug 2012] [p.1/1] - Scroll Map?

Postby Flapcake on Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:35 pm

Hi Barrack,

Nice start, you got the skill for goin all the way I can see.

The scrool look are cool, you migth end up with something else, who knows? but its the rigth direction your goin in my opinion..

Now goin all the way, that meens get it quenched and listed as a solid map on CC, its a process that can take quite a long time, please have patients and stand up for your work. Listen to constructive critique and work with the suggestions that will come. Dont hesitate asking CA´s for advise. If you commit your self and you got the time, you get the pleasure playing you very one map ;)

God spirit and thumps up :) PS. remember to put you last version in top of first page.

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Re: Master of Elements [28 Aug 2012] [p.1/1] - Scroll Map?

Postby barrack on Sun Sep 02, 2012 12:31 am

Flapcake wrote:PS. remember to put you last version in top of first page.


Thanks for the kind words flaps. I didn't realize that I could edit the first post. I'll put the latest there.
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Re: Master of Elements [28 Aug 2012] [p.1/1] - Scroll Map?

Postby AndyDufresne on Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:14 am

barrack wrote:
Flapcake wrote:PS. remember to put you last version in top of first page.


Thanks for the kind words flaps. I didn't realize that I could edit the first post. I'll put the latest there.

Posting an update of the latest image in actual pages of the topic is also useful, as you can then post an image and then ask for feedback regarding a couple of questions you might have (directed feedback might give you some more responses than just say posting an image).

Best of luck, I like the look of this map.


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Re: Master of Elements [02 Sep 2012] [p.1/2] - Scroll? Text?

Postby tkr4lf on Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:06 am

Yeah, the scroll map looks much better than the original. Like Koontz said, find a bigger image and scale it down to meet your needs, the way it is, it looks blurry and messy.

I'm not all that familiar with the Avatar series, so can't offer much help regarding titles and terit placement, etc.

I can say that with the background being a scroll, some of the continents blend in too much with the background. Consider changing the colors, or adjusting the hue/lightness etc. to make them stand out more.

I'll post back with more feedback when you upload another draft.

Good luck!
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Re: Master of Elements [03 Sep 2012] [p.1/2] - Scroll! Text?

Postby barrack on Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:14 pm

Okay, the scroll's back. I had to scale down the actual map so that it would fit. I kept the blue so that the map wouldn't get lost on the scroll.

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Re: Master of Elements [02 Sep 2012] [p.1/2] - Scroll? Text?

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:52 pm

Barrack, a lot nicer scroll has done wonders for your map. Two things I would like you do do for me and post the result so I can see how it looks. Turn your text of and remove the brown backing. When you have the islands sitting on the scroll, can you go through all of your layer modes for me and opacity with the islands only and post the one you think looks the best. Burn mode on 100% opacity will look bad but burn at 40 or 50% should look OK.

As a new map maker, I do not know your level of experience so forgive if I am saying things you already know. If you do not understand something, ask.
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Re: Master of Elements [02 Sep 2012] [p.1/2] - Scroll? Text?

Postby barrack on Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:22 am

How's this? The "brown backing" from the most recent update is actually the same blue as before, it just looks brown because I did a "multiply" layer merge at 75% opacity. So this is basically the same map with with most of the blue taken out, still using multiply at 75%. I left a little blue left to use it as a blurred outline of the shores.

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Re: Master of Elements [03 Sep 2012] [p.2/2] - Scroll? Text?

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:08 am

Something that might look good is this, increase your opacity to 100% and set it on grain merge.

Let me explain my thinking now for you so you do not think I am being overly picky. You now have this nice scroll which is aged some but not a lot. You map though looks like it was drawn on brand new modern paper. We need to find a way to get these two elements to merge. I am thinking that it might be nice for this to go down the kingdoms of Korea route. Having the outlines drawn straight on to the scroll and use a inner glow to separate the regions. Or look at Berlin, how the map is all one colour but of differing shades. This is something that will need to be addressed and it might be wise to find it now than later.

Overall, I have nothing in the way of GP and or styling but would like to get this sorted now before I bung this upstairs.
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Re: Master of Elements [03 Sep 2012] [p.2/2] - Scroll? Text?

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:30 am

You know, don't be afraid to have the scroll go off the image, to give yourself some more gameboard room, like Route 66, Istanbul, Steamworks.

koontz1973 wrote:Let me explain my thinking now for you so you do not think I am being overly picky. You now have this nice scroll which is aged some but not a lot. You map though looks like it was drawn on brand new modern paper. We need to find a way to get these two elements to merge. I am thinking that it might be nice for this to go down the kingdoms of Korea route. Having the outlines drawn straight on to the scroll and use a inner glow to separate the regions. Or look at Berlin, how the map is all one colour but of differing shades. This is something that will need to be addressed and it might be wise to find it now than later.

Honestly, I kind of like the way he has it now. I think keeping it from being overaged and sort of fresh and recently drawn looks pretty cool.


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Re: Master of Elements [03 Sep 2012] [p.2/2] - Scroll? Text?

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:01 am

Andy is right. Leave it as it is now. Get the names bunged back on and lets work from that.
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Re: Master of Elements [04 Sep 2012] [p.2/2] - Scroll? Text?

Postby barrack on Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:15 am

In this version, I removed the blue background on the scroll as recommended. I think it looks good without the dark background.

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Re: Master of Elements [03 Sep 2012] [p.2/2] - Scroll? Text?

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:26 am

Looking good.

Where did you get the scroll from, just need to check that it is royalty free and that you can use it.

Legend text looks good, and keep it as is. Territ text, might be an idea for another visit to dafont and try to find a font that would suit the map better. Speaking of text, some of it goes over the edges of the scroll. Can you move it so it all fits onto the base of the scroll. Maybe, enlarge the scroll so only the edges of the scrolled part shows on the map. This will give you more room to play with and save you moving the text. The dark background looks good as well. Keep it.
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Re: Master of Elements [03 Sep 2012] [p.2/2] - Scroll? Text?

Postby barrack on Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:47 pm

I'm not sure about image royalties, but I just googled "blank scroll" and selected large. I found two sites using the same image for different purposes.

http://www.sanditebilliardsandgrill.com/AboutUs.html
http://jjermayne.com/cleaningoutmyclosetm.html

I'll play around more with the font.
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Re: Master of Elements [04 Sep 2012] [p.3/3] - Territory tex

Postby barrack on Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:51 pm

I changed the gameplay notes to the same font as the main title and moved things around so that they'd fit. I'm going to leave the territory fonts as is, because when I changed them, they were really hard to read at such a small size. When I englarged them to the point they were readable, they took up too much space.

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Re: Master of Elements [05 Sep 2012] [p.3.3] - Territ Text?

Postby thehippo8 on Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:35 am

Looking sharp ... islands are still a bit too faded for my screen. But the overall feel is good. Placement of the territory names is much better but I agree with Koontz that the font feels wrong somehow. Have you thought of playing with some different fonts to see how they look?
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Re: Master of Elements [05 Sep 2012] [p.3.3] - Territ Text?

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:18 am

Here are some for you to look at and have a think about. You are right, using the same font that small may cause you problems but do try to find one that looks like it is not typed on by a computer.
Angelina
Chow Fun
Made in China

You will hear a lot about this in graphics but the overall look of the map has to blend in with each element.
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Re: Master of Elements [05 Sep 2012] [p.3.3] - Territ Text?

Postby Flapcake on Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:07 pm

I also think you should play around with some different fonts, The scroll almost screams for handwriting, personal I dont think the outer glow on the handwriting looks good, it kind of ruin the hole pergament old fashing look ;) like some old chinise dude spent 100 years doing that map :lol:
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Re: Master of Elements [05 Sep 2012] [p.3.3] - Territ Text?

Postby dolomite13 on Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:41 pm

I know your still working out text for clarity but I just wanted to weigh in on the "scroll" concept. I really like the idea and along those lines you could try just a parchment look and have it laying on a table like the Route 66 map. That would let you theme it a bit with maybe a candle off to one side holding down the corner of the parchment and maybe a dagger or some gold coins in the other corner. You could even skew the unit circles to match the flatter skew of a map on a table like it did with The Conquer 500 map.

About the bonus text... is the bonus structure as follows?

Continent Bonuses
+2 Northern Water Clan (2 territories, 1 capital, 1 shrine)
+6 Upper Earth Realms (7 territories, 1 capital, 0 shrines)
+7 Lower Earth Realm (8 territories, 1 capital, 1 shrine)
+3 Fire Empire (6 territories, 1 capital, 1 shrine)
+5 Air Monks (7 territories, 0 capitals, 1 shrine)
+2 Southern Water Clan (3 territories, 1 capital)

Did you check the bonuses with the continent bonus calculator? I tried it and here is what I got.

+2 Northern Water Clan (2.08) looks good
+6 Upper Earth Realms (7.33) might be worth a bump to +7
+7 Lower Earth Realm (7.08) another spot on
+4 Fire Empire (3.88) might want to bump to +4
+9 Air Monks (8.75) wow this one is spread out and can get hammered from all sides +9 might be more appropriate
+2 Southern Water Clan (1.92) looks like +2 works

+10 Master All Four Elements ... does this mean that you need to hold all 4 shrines?... the calculator would suggest this is at (4.67) and maybe a +5 bonus would seem more appropriate.

Possible better wording ... "Master an element by holding its spirit shrine. When you have mastered all four elements you are granted a +5 bonus." ... it is a little more long winded but you have map space.

+5 call upon the order of the phoenix. Does this mean that I need to hold all 4 capitals to get this bonus? Again the calculator comes up at 8.75. a +9 or +10 bonus seems more appropriate here.

Control a capital to enlist a member of the order of the phoenix... I assume this goes with the +5 bonus for calling upon the order.

Possible better wording ... "Control a capital city to enlist a member of the order of the phoenix. When you control all four capitals the order grants you a +5 bonus."

BTW... Great job so far =)

=D=
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Re: Master of Elements [05 Sep 2012] [p.3.3] - Territ Text?

Postby Victor Sullivan on Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:27 pm

dolomite13 for Cartographer 2012! :P

This looks pretty solid. I like its deceptive simplicity, and for this stage in the process, those graphics look nice!

-Sully
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Re: Master of Elements [05 Sep 2012] [p.3.3] - Territ Text?

Postby dolomite13 on Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:40 pm

Victor Sullivan wrote:This looks pretty solid. I like its deceptive simplicity, and for this stage in the process, those graphics look nice! -Sully


Agreed I think this could be a fun one and looks deceptively simple.

=D=
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Re: Master of Elements [05 Sep 2012] [p.3.3] - Territ Text?

Postby barrack on Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:00 am

Thanks for all the comments guys. I'm going on a vacation this upcoming week, so I'll look into them when I get back. I'll be honest though, I thought that I'd be dealing with a lot of these points later on in the process, such as the graphics and gameplay stages.

I just wanted to get the concept out there. So far there seems to be some interest, so for that I'm glad. If any of your is a fan of the Avatar cartoons, I'd love to hear your thoughts on how it relates to the show and how you think that aspect of the concept can be improved without infringing upon the copyright.
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