White Map / The Cave (Please move to the Recycling Box)

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White Map / The Cave (Please move to the Recycling Box)

Postby Huegelkoenig on Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:07 pm

Edit: Due to BOB, the whole idea doesn't work (see: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=179504&p=3927338#p3927338 )


Map Name: White Map (scroll down for a similar map: The Cave)
Mapmaker(s): Huegelkoenig
Number of Territories: ~80-120 (?)
Special Features: you don't see which territories are connectected
What Makes This Map Worthy of Being Made: it's really confusing ;)


The Idea:
Some time ago i came up with the idea of a map, where you have to play almost blind.
By the term blind, i mean:
Territories are spread widely over the whole map. Connected territories don't have to be close to each other.
You can see where the territories are, but you can't see to which territories they are connected to .
To increase the confusion, there are a lot of one-way-attacks.


Map Image + Description: White Map
To give you an idea how a map like this could look like, i quickly drew a map with 20 territories.
Click image to enlarge.
image

The pink arrows indicate how the territories are connected. Of course, in the final map, you wouldn't see those arrows, just the blank white map with some circles indicating the territories.
I know, you wouldn't even need those circles, since you can see where the territories are via the troopcount (or the ? in a game with fog of war), but i think it would prevent some missclicks.


How to play:
If its your turn, you will be able to see where you can attack/reinforce via the dropdown menu (i know, clicking on the map is much easier/faster/better_in_any_way, but in this case this would end in trial and error).


Attention should be paid to:
  • There shouldn't be any dead ends or a bunch of territory you wouldn't be able to "leave".
    ==> For every territory there has to be a route to any other territory
  • Territories shouldn't be connected to too many other territories.
    Mainly to prevent some territories to be more important than others, but also to decrease the click-and-search-process via the dropdown menu.
    I'd say "A territory should neither be able to attack more than 4 other territories nor be attacked from (*) more than 4 other territories" is a good start.
(*): Keep in mind: I mentioned there should be a lot of one-way-attacks.


Bonuses/Objectives:
+1 for every 4 territories, minimum of 3, maximum of 10,
no other bonus,
no objective.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


While i was thinking about this whole "White Map" idea, i thought that a white map (blank white or with those circles indicating the territories) would soon or later lead to eye-cancer :lol:
That's when i came up with another idea:
Map Name: The Cave
Number of Territories: ~120 (?)

The main idea stays the same:
Theres a huge cave in the middle of the map, surrounded by 8 seperated regions (4 on each side), with each region containing 9(?) territories ( =total of 72(?)regions outside the cave).
In each region, 8 of those territories are "starting territories" (not like in "Feudal Epic", just the usual random distribution)

The ninth region starts with "neutral 5"(??more?) and is used as an entrance (and exit???) to the cave.
Inside the cave, there are ~50+ territories starting as "neutral 1" and the gameplay is the same as in the White Map, you can't see which territories are connected to each other (because its dark 8-) ).


Bonuses/Objectives:
+2 for holding a whole region, (**or skip this)
+1 autodeploy on the cave entrance (**and increase the autodeploy),
+1 for every 4 territories, minimum of 3, maximum of 10,
hold all territories inside the cave to win


Map Image: The Cave
Click image to enlarge.
image

Note: This picture should just give you an outline about what i had in mind. I didnt watch out for dead ends, the number of territories in the regions, etc. Of course, you wouldnt be able to see those pink arrows in the final map.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since both maps are build on the same idea, i would only (try to) make one of those... Thats why i didnt start two topics.

Any feedback is welcome!
Last edited by Huegelkoenig on Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: White Map / The Cave

Postby thehippo8 on Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:59 am

I admire the anarchic disestablismentarianism inherent in the concept. It's the sort of game that would reap rewards to those in the know and abject horrow to the uninitiated! I wonder if it would be possible to have a set (maybe twenty or so) variant maps and the only way that they could be played is via a separate randomiser (like the current random map chooser but soelely for these freaky maps). Now that would cause a real head spin!!
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Re: White Map / The Cave

Postby generalhead on Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:24 pm

The second concept sounds a lot better, the first concept was a little confusing.
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Re: White Map / The Cave

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:12 pm

While the idea of having 8 starting positions connected to a main battle ground in the middle, (this is like the feudals but more edgy), you will need to put the centre arrows in. Remember, not all players can read English (you need a legend on the map) so they would need to know how to go about the map. You have the right solution with the arrows all ready. Remember the names also need to go in as not all players use clickies.
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Re: White Map / The Cave

Postby Huegelkoenig on Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:50 pm

thehippo8 wrote:It's the sort of game that would reap rewards to those in the know and abject horrow to the uninitiated!

I know, "cheating" (by writing down which territories are connected) would be a problem. Thats why i want there to be so many regions in the cave. Because i don't think there is an efficient way to write down all those attack-routes.
So i don't think this would be a big problem...

thehippo8 wrote: I wonder if it would be possible to have a set (maybe twenty or so) variant maps and the only way that they could be played is via a separate randomiser (like the current random map chooser but soelely for these freaky maps). Now that would cause a real head spin!!

Thats not possible atm :|
If you start a new game, you can choose your map as "random", but you can't select a bunch of maps for the random-map-generator to choose from. This woudl be neccessary for your idea to work.
Also, those maps would have to have different names and this would enable cheating (like mentioned above) again (even though i don't think this would be a problem)


koontz1973 wrote:...you will need to put the centre arrows in.

This would be contrary to my initial idea of playing "blind" would...
1. ... just end up in "another" map with different starting positions and a huge battleground in the middle of the map.
2. ... be very difficult to draw, since i want there to be a lot more regions inside the cave.

koontz1973 wrote:Remember the names also need to go in as not all players use clickies.

Of course! This was just a first sketch to show my idea and ask for opinions, since i don't want to waste my time, just to realize after several hours of work, that noone is interested in a map like this.
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Re: White Map / The Cave

Postby tokle on Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:31 pm

One problem with this idea is that BOB tells you which terits border each other. So if you have BOB installed the gameplay idea won't work.
I like the chaotic game-play idea though, but with the current tools, I don't think it could be done well.
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Re: White Map / The Cave

Postby koontz1973 on Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:03 pm

This would be contrary to my initial idea of playing "blind" would...
1. ... just end up in "another" map with different starting positions and a huge battleground in the middle of the map.
2. ... be very difficult to draw, since i want there to be a lot more regions inside the cave.

I do understand your point, but GP rules state that you must be able to play the map just by looking at it. Without the arrows in, you will end up with a map that is different but unplayable by anyone not using clickies. And there are a lot of us still using the drop down boxes.

The way you have it now with the arrows, double the territs there and you will end up with a mess.
But it is an idea worth trying to get around. 2 simple ideas that have been done are....
Dungeons of Draknor. All one way attacks with multiple routes around.
Knights. Think about having attacks to non adjacent regions in a set pattern. Say, you cannot attack the territ next to you but only the one after. Give the centre a hex grid effect and you can get lots of troops in there.
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Re: White Map / The Cave

Postby The Bison King on Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:07 am

I think this is a terrible idea.


The gameplay doesn't seem interesting. The graphics have almost no potential. This really just strikes me as a lame idea.
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Re: White Map / The Cave

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:01 am

Negativity like that never helps. Whilst the map as is is not worth much, all ideas come from a seed and grow into a mighty oak one day. All we can do is voice opinions and try to steer the map in one direction. Find a solution to the problem and post that is a better way.
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Re: White Map / The Cave

Postby generalhead on Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:54 am

A map idea can always start out as something that is not so good and transform into something awesome through the process. As the map maker goes through the map making process he will change graphics, game play and continuity as he advances. Don't give up, keep on mapping! =D>
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Re: White Map / The Cave

Postby Huegelkoenig on Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:29 am

koontz1973 wrote:...Without the arrows in, you will end up with a map that is different but unplayable by anyone not using clickies...

No offense, but either you didn't understand my idea or i didnt get your point... the way i planned it, i thought it would be almost necessary to play via the drop down menu. Nevermind. It doesn't matter, since:

tokle wrote:One problem with this idea is that BOB tells you which terits border each other. So if you have BOB installed the gameplay idea won't work.
I like the chaotic game-play idea though, but with the current tools, I don't think it could be done well.


Well, i didnt use BOB before. Due to your comment, i installed it and looked how it works. now i see the problem. :(
The idea was:
You hold the region "Cave8" and see that you are able to attack "Cave 1", "Cave21" and Cave 47", but you wouldnt be able to tell which regions you could attack next. You even couldnt tell, if you can reinforce your troops back to "Cave8" or if it would be necesarry, since you couldnt tell, which regions would be able to attack you.
With BOB installed, you simply have to move your mouse over those regions and would be able to see all these informations.

So: this idea is screwed! :|

Maybe i will come up with a good idea in a few days (or later), but until then i abandon this project.


Anyways, thanks for the replies, everyone
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Re: White Map / The Cave

Postby nolefan5311 on Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:12 am

Huegelkoenig wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:...Without the arrows in, you will end up with a map that is different but unplayable by anyone not using clickies...

No offense, but either you didn't understand my idea or i didnt get your point... the way i planned it, i thought it would be almost necessary to play via the drop down menu. Nevermind. It doesn't matter, since:

tokle wrote:One problem with this idea is that BOB tells you which terits border each other. So if you have BOB installed the gameplay idea won't work.
I like the chaotic game-play idea though, but with the current tools, I don't think it could be done well.


Well, i didnt use BOB before. Due to your comment, i installed it and looked how it works. now i see the problem. :(
The idea was:
You hold the region "Cave8" and see that you are able to attack "Cave 1", "Cave21" and Cave 47", but you wouldnt be able to tell which regions you could attack next. You even couldnt tell, if you can reinforce your troops back to "Cave8" or if it would be necesarry, since you couldnt tell, which regions would be able to attack you.
With BOB installed, you simply have to move your mouse over those regions and would be able to see all these informations.

So: this idea is screwed! :|

Maybe i will come up with a good idea in a few days (or later), but until then i abandon this project.


Anyways, thanks for the replies, everyone


Yeah, unfortunately, it's not really possible, since just coding the gameplay mechanics would require that everyone know which regions can attack which, etc. I like the idea, its just not possible with the current game engine.

I do hope you find inspiration for something new soon though. The Foundry always needs more mapmakers!
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Re: White Map / The Cave

Postby The Bison King on Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:07 pm

koontz1973 wrote:Negativity like that never helps. Whilst the map as is is not worth much, all ideas come from a seed and grow into a mighty oak one day. All we can do is voice opinions and try to steer the map in one direction. Find a solution to the problem and post that is a better way.

Koontz you know I've been around. I've heard this speech half a dozen times. Sure some seed's grow into mighty oaks, but other seeds get eaten by squirrels. Perhaps the make maker could focus on making a map that is designed around a gimick that will get old after the first time you play it. I mean basically if the idea of this map is that you have to attack things blindly there's no way to develop a strategy. If there's no way way to develop a strategy there's no difference between games. If there's no difference between games there's no reason to play it more than once.
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Re: White Map / The Cave (Please move to the Recycling Box)

Postby nolefan5311 on Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:25 am

And just for reference, this won't be moved into the Recycling Box because it's not a proper draft. This thread is for map ideas which is what this is at this point, so it will stay here.
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