Man, don't get irritated, new font - Feb 18, page 3

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Re: Man, don't get irritated, new font - Feb 18, page 3

Postby Oneyed on Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:36 pm

koontz1973 wrote:You updated the map on the 18th, correct?
I moved it one month later, also correct?
I saw the update, I just did not wish to comment.


then why you asked for updated version with changed font in legend? just to bugger?
koontz1973 wrote:I follow maps I like, but I do my job on all.


you are blue guy, so your job is follow all maps. when you would be "only" normal member of foundry you can follow only what you like.

nolefan5311 wrote:This map will add almost nothing to the site whatsoever.

Half the area of the map isn't even playable either.


you are wrong in both notices.
and you did not read legend when you said that half of map is not playable...

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Re: Man, don't get irritated, new font - Feb 18, page 3

Postby thenobodies80 on Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:48 pm

Ok, it's time to take a break for you both. =;

Please gimme the time to review the whole thread, understand the current situation and post my thoughts.
Don't force me to post here again (before I'm able to give a objective opinion on the matter) just to stop the current debacle or I will lock the thread.

Thanks in advance for your collaboration :)
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Re: Man, don't get irritated, new font - Feb 18, page 3

Postby nolefan5311 on Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:34 pm

Oneyed wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:You updated the map on the 18th, correct?
I moved it one month later, also correct?
I saw the update, I just did not wish to comment.


then why you asked for updated version with changed font in legend? just to bugger?
koontz1973 wrote:I follow maps I like, but I do my job on all.


you are blue guy, so your job is follow all maps. when you would be "only" normal member of foundry you can follow only what you like.

nolefan5311 wrote:This map will add almost nothing to the site whatsoever.

Half the area of the map isn't even playable either.


you are wrong in both notices.
and you did not read legend when you said that half of map is not playable...

Oneyed


It can't be wrong to state an opinion, and my opinion is this map will rarely ever get played.

And I just wonder...how you talk to koontz in this thread...is that how you talk to people in real life?
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Re: Man, don't get irritated, new font - Feb 18, page 3

Postby Oneyed on Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:29 pm

nolefan5311 wrote:It can't be wrong to state an opinion, and my opinion is this map will rarely ever get played.


no it is not. but before you post your opinion read map correctly. it is not true that half of regions will be nonplayable...
nolefan5311 wrote:And I just wonder...how you talk to koontz in this thread...is that how you talk to people in real life?


it was koontz who asked for update. I did it and he ignored it. so if he knew that he not support this map why he asked for update? only for bugger?

you know nothing about my real life, so whist :-$

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Re: Man, don't get irritated, new font - Feb 18, page 3

Postby nolefan5311 on Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:02 pm

Oneyed wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote:It can't be wrong to state an opinion, and my opinion is this map will rarely ever get played.


no it is not. but before you post your opinion read map correctly. it is not true that half of regions will be nonplayable...


I didn't say half the regions would not be playable. I said half the map is non playable space, i.e., there is a lot of wasted space on the map.

Oneyed wrote:
nolefan5311 wrote:And I just wonder...how you talk to koontz in this thread...is that how you talk to people in real life?


it was koontz who asked for update. I did it and he ignored it. so if he knew that he not support this map why he asked for update? only for bugger?

you know nothing about my real life, so whist :-$

Oneyed


I didn't claim to know anything about your personal life. The point I was making is that, perhaps if you were a little more respectful in how you talked to people, and less confrontational all the time, things would be a bit smoother for you here in the Foundry. I honestly don't expect you to understand, or really care, but seeing someone call someone else ignorant when they clearly have no idea what they're talking about bothered me.
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Re: Man, don't get irritated, new font - Feb 18, page 3

Postby Oneyed on Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:00 am

nolefan5311 wrote:I didn't claim to know anything about your personal life.


then for what you mentioned it?
nolefan5311 wrote:The point I was making is that, perhaps if you were a little more respectful in how you talked to people, and less confrontational all the time, things would be a bit smoother for you here in the Foundry.


what? there was just one confrontation from me in Hungary map. so do not say demagogy.
nolefan5311 wrote:I honestly don't expect you to understand, or really care, but seeing someone call someone else ignorant when they clearly have no idea what they're talking about bothered me.


as you did not correct read map (and then you said bullshit about it) you also did not correct read what was said. I did not said that koontz is ignorant, I said that he ignored my updated version.
and when you are so sapient tell me if it is correct from blue guy to ask for update and when map maker did update blue guy ignore it.

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Re: Man, don't get irritated, new font - Feb 18, page 3

Postby isaiah40 on Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:21 am

Okay that will be enough of this bickering.

Oneyed, koontz has already said that he saw the update but choose not to say anything. You didn't do an update since the 18th of Feb so on the 18th of March koontz moved it into the Melting Pot. We move maps into the Recycling Bin (those that have a stamp) or into the Melting Pot (those without a stamp) after 1 month has passed without an update from the mapmaker. Koontz did the right thing as you did not provide an update between Feb 18th and March 18th.

SO if you want this map to proceed, then you will have to do another update to get moved mack into the Drafting Room.

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Re: Man, don't get irritated, new font - Feb 18, page 3

Postby thenobodies80 on Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:46 am

Wow, I kindly asked to stop this and wait for a my post, but it seems no one here is able to wait 24 hours.

I'll unlock this topic this evening, after posting my thoughts on this useless battle that is going on and also on the map idea.

I don't like to lock topics, but it seems we can't talk about the map idea without fall into personal attacks for now, so the lock is the only way I have to prevent worst actions on my part. till

I'll post here in few hours.

[Locked]

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Re: Man, don't get irritated, new font - Feb 18, page 3

Postby thenobodies80 on Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:15 pm

It's clear that more than a month has passed so I'm not going to spend time on it, I need only to quote isaiah40:

isaiah40 wrote: Koontz did the right thing as you did not provide an update between Feb 18th and March 18th.

SO if you want this map to proceed, then you will have to do another update to get moved mack into the Drafting Room.


Now, what I'm really sad to see is a such level of bitterness into the discussion. For this reason I want to clarify a thing:

Oneyed wrote:you are blue guy, so your job is follow all maps. when you would be "only" normal member of foundry you can follow only what you like.


The drafting room CA must follow all maps. It's exactly his duty. But while he does his job he needs to understand which ideas could become a CC map or stay just an idea.
The fact that a CA, who is there exactly for that reasons, is not supporting your map deoasn't mean he is not following it. A map can proceed through the foundry even if CAs don't support it. CAs are there to help the foundry process and guide the mapmaker to the right way, but we always consider the community support while judging a situation.
If a CA is not supporting your map, simply he is keeping track of the activity in your thread, he reads the posts...but he has decided to not post directly in your map thread if not for technical reasons. While doing this, the CA is not ignoring the map but simply since he thinks the idea is not totally worth a map he decides to test the community support.
If there's no support the CA has a real proof of his doubts about a map.

This is what koontz has done and it's exactly what I would have done. If you have doubts, see what the people thinks. For me he has acted in the right way.
If I look at the number he has posted, maybe you should consider that he could be not totally wrong. For this reason, maybe you should not reply to everyone in such way. I don't know if it's because the different languages or if it's because the web can easily cause some misunderstanding, but I can assure to you that no one here is trying to offend you in any way. CAs critiques are always referred to the map and not to the mapmaker. In addition if you reply to critiques in that way you will get only less people posting on your map thread.

Now, I think you (oneyed) are a good mapmaker and you're trying to explore new fields, I'm happy to have you here around and I really like your tanks map.
But it's not easy to deal with you, you take everything really personal, specially when you don't agree. Sure, there should be discussion and reasons must be given from both parts but your words sounds always so grumpy when you don't agree.

I don't want to start another duel so please consider that I'm talking objectively: I can easily count the real posts in this thread with my hands.
We can debate about the value of your idea for days and do not find an agreement. i want to speak frankly: my suggestion for you is forget this project and instead focus on the tank map and also on the great war map.
Since, the biggest issue is support, I have a proposal. Test the community support yourself, maybe with a simple poll.

If you don't know how to start a poll, just send me a PM.

So, please everyone chill down, it's possible to have a discussion without being rude.
koontz has moved to gameplay, i will follow the DR so I will follow your map. (btw I don't want to see the same thing happen there :evil: )
My very first suggestion for your map and you is what I said here above, test community support.

When it's done we have several things to discuss.
About the update you can work again with the legend. The legend must be clear and easy to read, your legend background+the current font make everything more hard to read.

If you want to discuss more about the recent diatribe I kindly ask to you to use pms, in this way we can keep the discussion in the topic focused on the map development only.

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Re: Man, don't get irritated, new font - Feb 18, page 3

Postby Oneyed on Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:02 am

isaiah40 wrote:Oneyed, koontz has already said that he saw the update but choose not to say anything. You didn't do an update since the 18th of Feb so on the 18th of March koontz moved it into the Melting Pot. Koontz did the right thing as you did not provide an update between Feb 18th and March 18th.


the point is that in Feb 18th koontz asked for new font in legend. I posted updated version in Feb 18th, but then he ignored it. so why he asked for this update then? why he after my update did not wrote something like "this is not enough", "the legend is still hard readable"...
isaiah40 wrote:SO if you want this map to proceed, then you will have to do another update to get moved mack into the Drafting Room.


and which new update? nobody (also koontz) did not ask for next changes.

btw isaiah, I PMed you in March 2nd for any help or your opinion, but you did not replay more as 20 days (just short answer as "sorry I have no time/interest", "sorry will think about this later" would be enough if you had no time or interest). and I PMed to you not because to bother you, but because I think that you have masterbrain as CA. so try to think about yourself also.

thenobodies80 wrote:It's clear that more than a month has passed so I'm not going to spend time on it, I need only to quote isaiah40:

This is what koontz has done and it's exactly what I would have done.


I do not agree. as I wrote here 100 times, koontz asked for update (change the font of legend). I did it. and he ignored it. if he asked for this update he could also comment this update. how could mapmaker knows what more is needed to do, what is CA´s opinion?
thenobodies80 wrote:But it's not easy to deal with you, you take everything really personal, specially when you don't agree. Sure, there should be discussion and reasons must be given from both parts but your words sounds always so grumpy when you don't agree.


realy? could you tell me where/when this happend except now and Hungary map? I saw some discusions much more grumpy in the foundry...
maybe sometimes is problem language, maybe sometimes is problem that in my opinion CAs have requests on mapmakers but there is not such feedback from CAs...
thenobodies80 wrote:Since, the biggest issue is support, I have a proposal. Test the community support yourself, maybe with a simple poll.


it was you who told me that poll solve nothing ;)
thenobodies80 wrote:If you want to discuss more about the recent diatribe I kindly ask to you to use pms, in this way we can keep the discussion in the topic focused on the map development only.


I also hope that this is last post which has nothing with map.

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Re: Man, don't get irritated, new font - Feb 18, page 3

Postby isaiah40 on Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:58 am

Oneyed wrote:btw isaiah, I PMed you in March 2nd for any help or your opinion, but you did not replay more as 20 days (just short answer as "sorry I have no time/interest", "sorry will think about this later" would be enough if you had no time or interest). and I PMed to you not because to bother you, but because I think that you have masterbrain as CA. so try to think about yourself also.


First of all, thank you for considering me a masterbrain as a CA! Not that I am, but I'll take the compliment. The pm you sent me was for your The Great War map and not this map. I have a habit of not deleting pm's for this very reason.
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Re: Man, don't get irritated, new font - Feb 18, page 3

Postby thenobodies80 on Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:36 am

Oneyed wrote: thenobodies80 wrote:Since, the biggest issue is support, I have a proposal. Test the community support yourself, maybe with a simple poll.

it was you who told me that poll solve nothing ;)


No, what I said is that polls in general solve nothing and instead give more problems. It's different and sorry if there was a misunderstanding about this.
It's not an absolute rule and it depends what you're going to ask to the community with a poll.

There're some situations in which a poll can be instead the right move and in this case I think you should start a simple poll (i.e. yes/no)

Oneyed wrote:I do not agree. as I wrote here 100 times, koontz asked for update (change the font of legend). I did it. and he ignored it. if he asked for this update he could also comment this update. how could mapmaker knows what more is needed to do, what is CA´s opinion?


CAs ask only things written into guidelines, apart for that they suggest what might be done to have a better map.
Again here the problem is not to understand if there's anything else to do, the problem is the unclear interest in having this map into the CC roster.

There're various things I can suggest for your map, but actually I'm talking about Guidelines Requirements.
Actually I would like to understand if point #5 listed into general rules is satisfied: "To proceed through the foundry the community must show a reasonable amount of interest towards a map"

I'm acting in this way for you.
As said you have 2 good projects ongoing and I'm not willing to ask to you to work on this map if there's no demand for it from the community.
I know you collected a couple of support post but it's not enough clear to my eyes.

So again, if you want to listen to me, the best option in this case is to collect community interest.
We don't want to use a poll? that's fine, but in that case I can look only at posts and actually it looks just a discussion between three friends.
Do you get what I mean?

As said, we can continue to walk around the problem and do nothing or instead we can try to do what we should do.

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Re: Man, don't get irritated, new font - Feb 18, page 3

Postby Oneyed on Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:40 am

isaiah40 wrote:The Great War map and not this map. I have a habit of not deleting pm's for this very reason.


I never said that my PM was about Man, don´t get irritated map...
the point is that you did not answered more as 20 days, but in another hand you preach at...

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Re: Man, don't get irritated, new font - Feb 18, page 3

Postby Oneyed on Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:58 am

thenobodies80 wrote:I know you collected a couple of support post but it's not enough clear to my eyes.


what is not clear? that 5 guys like it?
thenobodies80 wrote:So again, if you want to listen to me, the best option in this case is to collect community interest.
but in that case I can look only at posts and actually it looks just a discussion between three friends.


is this discussion between 3 friends?

isaiah40 wrote:I have to say Oneyed, this current draft is really thinking outside of the box! =D> I really like it! I say if the community wants this, then continue in this vein. Good work!!


Dukasaur wrote:I like the new draft, with the hands and all.

This will probably never be on my favourites list. But then, Poker Club and Chinese Checkers won't be, either. For those who like the game-board maps, this is a good addition.

Bravo!


Armandolas wrote:It looks interesting. but please change the font and make it more clear.

Keep up the good work ;)


P4Ssoa wrote:I really like the idea! :-)

Cool map, awesome graphics!


Falkomagno wrote:Nice art! keep doing the good work!.


I can not spend more time here with haggling.

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Re: Man, don't get irritated, new font - Feb 18, page 3

Postby Dukasaur on Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:18 am

koontz1973 wrote:39 posts.
21 have been made by you.
6 by me. (My 6 are not for support but because of clarity issues)
12 by 10 others.

From my point of view, this map has no support from anyone.

The foundry is not exactly a high-traffic area. 12 posts is really not horrible.

nolefan5311 wrote:This map will add almost nothing to the site whatsoever.
.

Look, none of the "game board" type maps are exactly popular. Still, they have their aficionados, and as we've discussed time and time again, that's one of CC's selling points: that there's different strokes for different folks.

Ask 100 players at random what they think of the Crossword map, and 99 will tell you it's a piece of crap. Personally, I kinda like it. I don't play it all that often, but on the rare occasion it is interesting.

Ask 100 players at random what they think of Chinese Checkers, and again I suspect 99 will say something unflattering, but I've met a couple of people who absolutely love it.

Recently when I wanted to include ConquerMan in a tournament, I was warned by a very important Team CC member that I was looking for trouble -- that ConquerMan is too heavily disliked among the community to be a suitable choice for a major tournament. That's how bad the stigma is on some maps, and yet, they all have their supporters. I personally enjoy ConquerMan, although just like Crossword, it isn't on my frequent-flying list.

I have a dream, that one day we will get a competent programmer on CC, and that there will be a real map sorting system on the Join A Game and Start A Game and Game Finder tabs, so that you can find a game on a map according to its genre. And when that dream becomes reality, there will definitely be a game-board genre, and a map like this, representing a board game that has been played in one version or another for a century, should be part of that genre.

I'm not going to lose any sleep over this either way, but it seems to me that appealing to only a minority has not stopped maps in the past and shouldn't stop them now.
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Re: Man, don't get irritated, new font - Feb 18, page 3

Postby P4Ssoa on Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:01 am

Honestly, this topic is full of crap.

My objective opinion (as I don't have friends in this topic and I don't know much about foundry at all):

I think everyone should just relax a bit and remember that we are here for fun. Let's not take everything so seriously!
Oneyed, please forget about this silly discussion and whether you are right or wrong, because frankly nobody (not pointing at thenobodies80) really cares but you. And actually, why do you care? Just focus on your map, those who do support your map and on how you can get this map into the game.
Cartographers/admins/mods/..., give Oneyed a break. I think it can be frustrating to see you don't get any support from the more important people in the foundry after working a week or more on a design.

Let's not post any more rubbish in this thread and focus on the map from now on. Let it all go! Please don't even reply on what I wrote in this post. End of discussion?

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I totally agree with dukasaur's last post. I think it's a nice concept and it could be fun. It's not the game you will play all of the time. It's not like other maps, but is that not a bit what we're looking for in the foundry? Something different? It adds something to this website in my opinion, because it's just not the same as 99% of all the other maps out there.
Also with 64 regions, and the setup described by oneyed, I think this map is very playable. And also tactically very interesting.
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Re: Man, don't get irritated, new font - Feb 18, page 3

Postby Falkomagno on Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:35 pm

what is the normal procedure? i think this map is looking very decent to this stage....and should not be buried by bureaucracy. I can see the mapmaker has been a very nice job updating this draft, so it should get move on, but instead of supporting the developing of original content, seems like it was moved to a less relevant part of the forum, in my opinion
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Re: Man, don't get irritated, new font - Feb 18, page 3

Postby Oneyed on Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:39 am

koontz1973 wrote:6 out of 39 is not support.


there were/are several maps which had/have less support in Drafting Room but gone next.
koontz1973 wrote:Think what you like, this map is bad IMO and I do not support it.


and here comes again your feeling that you are blue god. this map is far better as your Knights for example. from graphic and also gameplay view. this map is far better as many others because its difference.
P4Ssoa wrote:Oneyed, please forget about this silly discussion and whether you are right or wrong, because frankly nobody (not pointing at thenobodies80) really cares but you. And actually, why do you care? Just focus on your map, those who do support your map and on how you can get this map into the game.


you asked me why I care? believe me if this map has not any support I have not fight for it. but this map has support, just koontz again used his demagogy that it has not. btw, look where is world because nobody carries... ;)
btw, you also asked me for cooperation on our map. if any blue god will f*ck it will you again tell me forget it?

it is long time from last post here, I did not respond here and just I wait for any reaction especialy from blue guys. there is nothing. it is interesting how quickly blue guys came here to "close my mouth" when this discussion started and how they ignore posts which support this map. ignoration is very common here. chiefly when reasonings absent.

koontz you used all dirty tricks as blue god to kill this map. and why? just because YOU do not like it. and ofcourse you have blind support from blue community...

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