[Vacation - valid until May 2014] -The Chako/K'zari War

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Re: The Chako/K'zari War V.12 Pg.1&9 Updated 10/31/13

Postby cairnswk on Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:35 pm

Cyrus, i'm impressed where you have taken this. Well done from design pov.
I do however, have to say that i am having difficulty reading the text...perhaps a drop shadow or outer glow that helps contrast the green on blue/balck/grey
I also have to ask, why are there only sea routes highighted when clearly there many more...are these intermediary points?
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Re: The Chako/K'zari War V.12 Pg.1&9 Updated 10/31/13

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:03 am

cairnswk wrote:I do however, have to say that i am having difficulty reading the text

Agreed, the opacity of the back ground is making it hard as you have a lot of information coming at you at once. Try the shadow but a different colour might be better. A luminous green or yellow.
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Re: The Chako/K'zari War V.12 Pg.1&9 Updated 10/31/13

Postby DearCyrus on Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:51 pm

cairnswk wrote:Cyrus, i'm impressed where you have taken this. Well done from design pov.
I do however, have to say that i am having difficulty reading the text...perhaps a drop shadow or outer glow that helps contrast the green on blue/balck/grey
I also have to ask, why are there only sea routes highighted when clearly there many more...are these intermediary points?

Honestly, those are vestigial remnants of a concern from long ago, addressing the number of choke points on the map (each island originally only connected to two other islands). That was an issue until I modified the bonus structure because several of the larger island bonuses could have been extremely difficult to break depending on how the cards fell. It was suggested to add killer-neutral sea routes that could bypass this with a slight risk to the user.

Now that the bonuses have changed, I can go either way with them. They can be removed, changed to regular connections with no territ, or they can stay as they are. I see advantages in each option as far as possible ways they could effect game play...
I do still like the idea of certain areas being more dangerous to cross due to storms or even whirlpools... It can be done, but you may loose some men doing it.
How do you guys feel?

In the meantime, I hope this update addresses the text concerns. I changed the drop shadow to a bright green and changed the opacity on the text-screen layers up to 92% to darken them up.
I still want them a little translucent, and I think that works.
I also have redone my texture layer and rivers.I think they look a little more natural and less blurry.
Image

P.S. Thank You, all for the feedback you have given. Even the things that I didn't want to try have made this map come together better than I had imagined. You have really made Me push my graphic abilities. This is really the first Photo Shop project I have done. My older brother is a Graphic Artist and could do this in his sleep, but he told me I had to go it on my own. He recently told me he was impressed with my work...High praise coming from my brother. A little bit of that praise goes out to all of you as well, in my book. Thanks!
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Re: The Chako/K'zari War V.13 Pg.1&10 Updated 11/3/13

Postby cairnswk on Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:20 pm

I understand now. Leave it as is.
well done on the change to legend. :)
Now i wonder what koontz can do about getting you out of drafts. ;)
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Re: The Chako/K'zari War V.13 Pg.1&10 Updated 11/3/13

Postby DearCyrus on Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:20 pm

cairnswk wrote:Now i wonder what koontz can do about getting you out of drafts. ;)

+1
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Re: The Chako/K'zari War V.13 Pg.1&10 Updated 11/3/13

Postby dolomite13 on Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:48 pm

Here are a few things that have been going through my head about this map.

I didn't read everything (sorry) but I didn't see any mention on the map itself of any +1/3 (minimum 3) bonus. I assume their is one as there in an absence of any note saying otherwise. You really don't need mention it however in the bonuses are standard like that.

The key is worded a bit strangely and might just be too much text still.

- Hold any 2 cities for a +3 bonus
- Hold any 3 cities and the K'Zari ship may assault Lazers
- K'Zari ship autodeploys 5 due to genetic replicators
- Lazers bombard all territories and reset to 15 neutral when held
- Sea routes reset to 3 neutral when held
- Teleports assault K'Zari ship

Where do players start on this? are they random drop on the 24 villages? In which case each player in a 12 player game gets 2.

Do you intend to set 12 of the cities as player starts as well? With the city bonus of +3 at only 2 cities you need to be careful as you have several cities connected. I would consider dropping the number of cities to 8 from 16 and making 8 of them into villages. This would make it harder to get the bonus or unlock the lasers but in 4 player teams everyone on a team could get the 2 city bonus and several villages would drop neutral this way.

In the story of the map you imply that you are the K'Zari but are their 12 K'Zari players all vying for control of their crashed spacecraft wanting to destroy the other K'Zari. If only one player is considered the K'Zari does that mean you will be giving the K'Zari ship to one of the players randomly? And if so how do you plan to balance the +5 autodeploy (and minimum 3 deployable bonus) against 11 other players who are already fighting amongst each other and only gaining +3 per turn. It would only take 5 territories from the ship to get get 3 cities and a +3 bonus and unlock the Lazer. If you went last on say tirn 5 or 6 you could cash in enough to to laser most people out of the game.

If in fact everyone but one player is the savages how do the savages know how to work the teleports or the laser? and why would the K'Zari not be able to use the teleports to go the other direction?

I love the theme you have going here, it is a matter of making gameplay fit that theme. I think it can absolutely be done.

Anyway that's my 13 cents worth for now.

=D13=

p.s. I love the new look of the map
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Re: The Chako/K'zari War V.13 Pg.1&10 Updated 11/3/13

Postby DearCyrus on Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:45 pm

dolomite13 wrote:Here are a few things that have been going through my head about this map.

I didn't read everything (sorry) but I didn't see any mention on the map itself of any +1/3 (minimum 3) bonus. I assume their is one as there in an absence of any note saying otherwise. You really don't need mention it however in the bonuses are standard like that.

Yes, that will be the case. I did not include because that is standard.

The key is worded a bit strangely and might just be too much text still.

- Hold any 2 cities for a +3 bonus
- Hold any 3 cities and the K'Zari ship may assault Lazers
- K'Zari ship autodeploys 5 due to genetic replicators
- Lazers bombard all territories and reset to 15 neutral when held
- Sea routes reset to 3 neutral when held
- Teleports assault K'Zari ship

I can use the simpler wording, but I feel mine fits the theme as is. Anyone else want to weigh in on that?

Where do players start on this? are they random drop on the 24 villages? In which case each player in a 12 player game gets 2.

No.

Do you intend to set 12 of the cities as player starts as well? With the city bonus of +3 at only 2 cities you need to be careful as you have several cities connected. I would consider dropping the number of cities to 8 from 16 and making 8 of them into villages. This would make it harder to get the bonus or unlock the lasers but in 4 player teams everyone on a team could get the 2 city bonus and several villages would drop neutral this way.

the current set up would be 1 player (k'Zari ship, Genetic identifier and Sha'hur which does not connect to any cities) and 11 starting positions of one city and one village, the remaining territories would be random drops(5 cities and 12 villages).

In the story of the map you imply that you are the K'Zari but are their 12 K'Zari players all vying for control of their crashed spacecraft wanting to destroy the other K'Zari. If only one player is considered the K'Zari does that mean you will be giving the K'Zari ship to one of the players randomly? And if so how do you plan to balance the +5 autodeploy (and minimum 3 deployable bonus) against 11 other players who are already fighting amongst each other and only gaining +3 per turn. It would only take 5 territories from the ship to get get 3 cities and a +3 bonus and unlock the Lazer. If you went last on say tirn 5 or 6 you could cash in enough to to laser most people out of the game.

This is the point of the map, to some extent. The K'zari are the enemy (trying to work in a victory condition for their elimination...) whether people work together to keep the cities from them or not is up to them. I can lower the Auto-deploy to the original 3, but I feel having 7-11 enemies ganging up on you will balance things out. The small map is also intended to be designed from the point of view of the islanders, so both sides of the story will be covered. Holding the genetic identifier and 3 cities opens the lazers, so I can make more slots on that location to allow for more than one player to be fighting for control of the ship/lazers.

If in fact everyone but one player is the savages how do the savages know how to work the teleports or the laser? and why would the K'Zari not be able to use the teleports to go the other direction?

I will reword "attacks" to "connects" in the legend. The field linking them is constant, so the Islanders need no special knowledge for their use, and the K'Zari will definitely be taking advantage of this.


I love the theme you have going here, it is a matter of making gameplay fit that theme. I think it can absolutely be done.

Thanks

Anyway that's my 13 cents worth for now.

=D13=

p.s. I love the new look of the map

And Thanks!
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Re: The Chako/K'zari War V.13 Pg.1&10 Updated 11/3/13

Postby thenobodies80 on Sun Nov 10, 2013 7:25 am

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Give every man your ear, but few thy voice. Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment.
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Re: The Chako/K'zari War V.13 Pg.1&10 Updated 11/3/13

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:40 am

Congrats on the stamp and welcome to my world cyrus. Will get to you shortly but most things look in order.
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Re: The Chako/K'zari War V.13 Pg.1&10 Updated 11/3/13

Postby DearCyrus on Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:26 pm

Thank You!
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Re: The Chako/K'zari War V.13 Pg.1&10 Updated 11/3/13

Postby dolomite13 on Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:02 pm

DearCyrus wrote:the current set up would be 1 player (k'Zari ship, Genetic identifier and Sha'hur which does not connect to any cities) and 11 starting positions of one city and one village, the remaining territories would be random drops(5 cities and 12 villages).


With a bonus at 2 cities you can't really random drop the 5 cities as some players will start with an advantage. I can see dropping the 12 villages randomly though and I think based on the above description that you will get a pretty well balanced start as you can certainly control the odds by how you set the preselected city/village combos for players 2-11.

In games with 6 players would you still have only 1 start position per player or would you increase this to 2 per player. In which case someone would start with both a K'Zari start and a Chako start position?

In a team game, lets say 4v4 where one team starts with 3 Chako and the K'Zari start position. How do you feel that stacking on the K'Zari player so they start with 20 troops on the K'Zari ship would effect the balance of the game? I feel like they could take 2 cities very fast and gain access to the laser cannon on turn 2 followed with a turn 3 elimination of at least one if not more of the opposing teams troops.

Also I am a bit confused ... what is the Genetic Identifier territory for? It doesn't seem to border anything except that it can be bombarded by the Laser Cannon. Did I miss something somewhere?

=D13=
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Re: The Chako/K'zari War V.13 Pg.1&10 Updated 11/3/13

Postby DearCyrus on Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:50 pm

The genetic identifier is technically what makes a player the alien race. It is used as a required territory to access the lazers, it cannot attack or be attacked it is a place holder similar to special ability spaces in Krazy Kingdoms, if that makes any sense. Through out some ideas if you have any as far as balancing for team games, although I believe we can bypass that by using exclusions, if we have to...
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Re: The Chako/K'zari War V.13 Pg.1&10 Updated 11/3/13

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:29 am

[Moved]

It would appear that development of this map has stalled. The map is moved to the Recycling Box and put into Vacation status for the next 6 months. If the mapmaker wants to continue with the map, then one of the Cartographer Assistants will be able to help put the thread back into the Foundry system, after an update has been made. ;-)

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