QWERTY Keyboard - Brand New Design [vacation]

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Should this map be forged?

Yes!
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51%
Yes!
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Total votes : 142

Postby Kaplowitz on Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:42 am

Take the hands out
Make impassable and names white
Are you gonna have additional bonuses for making words (ie Lackattack, Victory, Conquer, etc.)?
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Postby Lone.prophet on Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:06 am

if you get lackattack you win
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Postby yeti_c on Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:23 am

Lone.prophet wrote:if you get lackattack you win


A good idea - except that Lackattack is only 5 letters...

A C L K T

"V I C T O R Y" would be better... - although that might be easier as they're only 3 groups!!

"C O N Q U E R" is better as it's more of a spread.

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Postby Lone.prophet on Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:25 am

lackattack the conquerer

L A C K T E O N Q U R

seem good
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Postby Tieryn on Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:03 pm

I've thought about this, and definately think I'll have a bonus for Conquer.

I'm also going to have a bonus for QWERTY, as well as for holding all the home keys - ASDF JKL;

There will also be bonuses for things like "Ctrl+Alt+Del", or holding all the Lock keys, and probably "Alt+Tab" as well. Commonly used shortcuts.

Can anyone think of any others that might be useful? I don't want -heaps- but if there's any particular ones, let me know.

I thought Ctrl+Z would be nice, cause sometimes I wish I could undo a move :P
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Postby Tieryn on Thu Jan 24, 2008 1:24 pm

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Taken Hands out,

I need to do something for better bonuses, but that's them for now if you can match the colours up, and see if they look appropriate. Check the draft below if you want a better idea of how things connect. I'll do up better connection parts tomorrow.. Might even re-do the colouring on the territories to give more room and hence make the font a little bigger... I think I will do this actually.. but tomorrow... Night folks

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Postby Tieryn on Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:09 pm

Redone all the colouring of keys, I think it looks much better with this outer glow than before... Easier to see links.

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Postby InkL0sed on Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:13 pm

Tieryn wrote:
InkL0sed wrote:I don't like the way you're going about the coloring and stuff... I think it would look cool if the connections were bridges or something, since the keys look like little islands.


If I did little bridges as connections, I could make the impassable borders rivers perhaps? :P (After spilling coke on the keyboard maybe? :P)


I like it :lol:
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Postby Tieryn on Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:28 pm

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Fixed up impassables, added in one and two way attack arrows. Standardised key sizes for basic keys (14 wide, so will centre the 12px 88 nicely)

Still need to find a nice way to list bonuses, and also give instructions. Will work on that a bit later, how's it looking so far?
Last edited by Tieryn on Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby tenio on Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:29 pm

i dont know but maybe holding teh shift key and like some of the numbers can be a bonus

(or you can make them hold both shift keys)


also I use Ctrl Escape Alot
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Postby Tieryn on Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:33 pm

I was hoping for conditional borders, ie, you could attack from 8* to the * on the numpad -ONLY- if you were holding a shift key, but unfortunately not possible with current XML
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Postby edbeard on Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:56 pm

I dunno.

I'm not feeling this idea at all. What are you going to call the continents? The colour they are? How are people who can't tell the colours apart suppose to play it then?

Impassables are arbritrarily drawn in for the most part, which isn't a good idea.



Some things to consider:

1. Does every key need to be a territory?

You could make 'home row' a territory. make the numpad a territory. I dunno.

2. How are you going to fit army counts onto this?

right now they're going to overlap and cover up the names of your territories. you have to fit 888 at the minimum because of the colourblind letters many people use.

3. I had more but I can't remember and honestly the more I look at the map, the more I dislike it. sorry.
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Postby Unit_2 on Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:07 am

BTW the map is 601 X 341 not 600 X 340
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Postby Tieryn on Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:36 am

edbeard wrote:I dunno.

I'm not feeling this idea at all. What are you going to call the continents? The colour they are? How are people who can't tell the colours apart suppose to play it then?

Impassables are arbritrarily drawn in for the most part, which isn't a good idea.



The continents will be "Left Pinky" "Left Ring" "Left Middle" "Left Index" and other for right hand, they're listed on page 1.

The impassables are not arbitrary - they follow the rule "Letters can only attack other keys on the same finger, and the space bar", but this is not true for numbers, or most other characters (exception for ,< .> and /? which count as letters)

edbeard wrote:2. How are you going to fit army counts onto this?

right now they're going to overlap and cover up the names of your territories. you have to fit 888 at the minimum because of the colourblind letters many people use.


This is definately a valid point, and I had aimed for fitting 88 (as this is the small map). The large map will easily fit 888, but there is no way (unless I alter top/bottom/top/bottom for where I write the armies, but that will look ugly) I can fit 888 inside these current boundaries, but other map circles, made to fit 88, are in use in other maps... It could be done but the armies would overlap the outer glow of the borders. Only really need another 3 pixels on each side, and the borders are more than that.

edbeard wrote:1. Does every key need to be a territory?

You could make 'home row' a territory. make the numpad a territory. I dunno.


I haven't come up with any other logical way to implement this that wouldn't drastically reduce gameplay, and it's a map that I would want to play, and in playing a keyboard map, I'd be disappointed if every key was not a territory.
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Postby Tieryn on Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:50 am

Okay, I've added in something to show the bonuses nicely, I think I still need to write the names of the continents in tho...

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What do people think? is that readable?
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Postby edbeard on Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:23 am

Tieryn wrote:other map circles, made to fit 88, are in use in other maps


it's not so much about the circles themselves, that's really just getting 2 digit armies centered. It's more about overlapping.

And, I'm not sure if this is true for other maps that were put up for play earlier, but all maps that go through the process now are required to be able to have three digit armies that don't overlap
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Postby Tieryn on Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:09 am

It will fit them, but I'll need to make some adjustments to the glow to let them fit in.

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Updated with continent names
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Postby Tieryn on Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:25 am

As it currently stands, the keys are 14px wide with a 5px border. They need to be 24px wide. With armies at the moment there would be 1px between armies... not enough methinks... There's 33 pixels around the edge I could scrimp, and some in the middle, to give enough space between keys, and I could make the keyfaces wider at the base? (dont know whether that would look any good... )

Although now I've recounted the pixels in the 888 - they only need to be 12px high, so maybe could have alternating heights (tho I suspect that would look bodgy).

I'll rework this over the weekend and see if I can't squeeze any more space out of it.
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Postby MrBenn on Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:01 am

To be honest, I don't like the way this map is going. Your image looks squashed and distorted (which it has to be to fit in the small map), and the colour scheme is getting more and more lurid, which I don't like.

At the moment the legend is the same size as the playable area of the map, and there is too much text there (in my opinion)...

The gameplay issues are perhaps more important than fancy graphics at the moment, and on previous keyboard/typewriter threads, these are the bits that caused the map development to falter.

My suggestion would be to go back to your base image, and think more about continent groupings. I know you are using keys associated with particular typing fingers, but I don't know many people who type like that... my fingers wander over the keyboard randomly (I think I use 3 fingers from each hand), and I suspect most people develop their typing ability from a one/two-finger approach.

The impassable borders follow on from this, and don't appear to make much sense. If you're going to have impassables, perhpas have a pencil on the keyboard between the QWERTY and ASDFG rows or something? Try and think creatively.

Space is your biggest issue. Do you need to include the Number Pad Cursor Keys etc? If you just had the QWERTY bit and the Function Keys there would still be over 70 territores, and you'd have more room to fit things in nicely.

I'd also recommend slowing down your updates a bit, and seeing how much genuine feedback your map is getting. Based on the posts on the 'topic review' for this thread, you're posting twice as much as everybody else put together. Don't rush your development - wait to see if people are getting behind your idea, before spending lots of time doing things that might not be appreciated - you have to remember that this is an idea that has been suggested many times before, and it needs to be done right. (Which is why it's on Colemans list!)
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Postby Tieryn on Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:23 am

Cheeres Benn, very good advice. I'm just on holidays at the moment, and have only just got photoshop again, so even if this doesn't go anywhere, brushing up my skills has been worth it, and I've learned a lot along the way, so regardless of where this goes, it hasn't been time wasted.

I like the idea of dropping it back to just the QWERTY, and leaving out the numpad/direction arrows... It would definately give me a lot more space to work with, and take out some of the more complex rules and pathways (although I liked some of them).

Regardless of the way people "actually" type (and I'm the same, while I type close to the proper way, I hardly do it completely right), it's still a real world application to the keyboard that provides a distinct separation of the keys, based on a generally accepted (and historically accurate :P) format, and I think it provides a good source of continent separation (if maybe not a good reason to have the impassable borders there).

I'll try strip it back a bit, but I'm still a fan of the impassables along that concept, (if not the actual implementation that they currently stand in). I'd certainly think there should at least be one between TGB and YHN, as however you type, most people keep their hands on the right sides of the keyboard (even if they aren't using the correct fingering), and something like a pencil could provide a good break, (perhaps chewed a bit, to allow some gaps through it?), and also perhaps a spilled can of (non-brand specific) cola creating impassable streams of cola through the keyboard...
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Postby InkL0sed on Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:59 am

I don't know about that "most people use a one/two finger approach" assertion... seems to me that most people I know type the proper way, including myself.

Just saying.
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Postby MrBenn on Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:10 am

I didn't say that most people used a 1/2 finger typing style, but that most people develop their typing style from a 1/2 finger approach....

... I suspect that relatively few people can do 'proper' touch-typing.
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Postby InkL0sed on Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:07 pm

MrBenn wrote:I didn't say that most people used a 1/2 finger typing style, but that most people develop their typing style from a 1/2 finger approach....

... I suspect that relatively few people can do 'proper' touch-typing.


But that's what I meant: most people I know do type "properly." Not that it matters. Carry on.
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Postby tenio on Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:29 pm

ya take out the arrows, numpad and the scroll lock area
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Postby Tieryn on Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:47 am

MrBenn wrote:I didn't say that most people used a 1/2 finger typing style, but that most people develop their typing style from a 1/2 finger approach....

... I suspect that relatively few people can do 'proper' touch-typing.


I'd suspect that a majority of professional typers (data entry/secretaries/receptionists) probably have done typing training and thus use close to a proper approach. I know I've certainly done some, both in school, and on random typing tutors of my own free will to improve my typing speed.

Regardless of whether people do it or not, it's still the generally accepted breakdown of key/finger ownership, and regardless of whether people "use" it, they should at lease -know- it. Who knows, maybe we'll help educate people to type better after they play on this map? :P
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