Conquer Club

Tieryn wrote:other map circles, made to fit 88, are in use in other maps

it's not so much about the circles themselves, that's really just getting 2 digit armies centered. It's more about overlapping.

And, I'm not sure if this is true for other maps that were put up for play earlier, but all maps that go through the process now are required to be able to have three digit armies that don't overlap

It will fit them, but I'll need to make some adjustments to the glow to let them fit in.



Updated with continent names

As it currently stands, the keys are 14px wide with a 5px border. They need to be 24px wide. With armies at the moment there would be 1px between armies... not enough methinks... There's 33 pixels around the edge I could scrimp, and some in the middle, to give enough space between keys, and I could make the keyfaces wider at the base? (dont know whether that would look any good... )

Although now I've recounted the pixels in the 888 - they only need to be 12px high, so maybe could have alternating heights (tho I suspect that would look bodgy).

I'll rework this over the weekend and see if I can't squeeze any more space out of it.

To be honest, I don't like the way this map is going. Your image looks squashed and distorted (which it has to be to fit in the small map), and the colour scheme is getting more and more lurid, which I don't like.

At the moment the legend is the same size as the playable area of the map, and there is too much text there (in my opinion)...

The gameplay issues are perhaps more important than fancy graphics at the moment, and on previous keyboard/typewriter threads, these are the bits that caused the map development to falter.

My suggestion would be to go back to your base image, and think more about continent groupings. I know you are using keys associated with particular typing fingers, but I don't know many people who type like that... my fingers wander over the keyboard randomly (I think I use 3 fingers from each hand), and I suspect most people develop their typing ability from a one/two-finger approach.

The impassable borders follow on from this, and don't appear to make much sense. If you're going to have impassables, perhpas have a pencil on the keyboard between the QWERTY and ASDFG rows or something? Try and think creatively.

Space is your biggest issue. Do you need to include the Number Pad Cursor Keys etc? If you just had the QWERTY bit and the Function Keys there would still be over 70 territores, and you'd have more room to fit things in nicely.

I'd also recommend slowing down your updates a bit, and seeing how much genuine feedback your map is getting. Based on the posts on the 'topic review' for this thread, you're posting twice as much as everybody else put together. Don't rush your development - wait to see if people are getting behind your idea, before spending lots of time doing things that might not be appreciated - you have to remember that this is an idea that has been suggested many times before, and it needs to be done right. (Which is why it's on Colemans list!)

Cheeres Benn, very good advice. I'm just on holidays at the moment, and have only just got photoshop again, so even if this doesn't go anywhere, brushing up my skills has been worth it, and I've learned a lot along the way, so regardless of where this goes, it hasn't been time wasted.

I like the idea of dropping it back to just the QWERTY, and leaving out the numpad/direction arrows... It would definately give me a lot more space to work with, and take out some of the more complex rules and pathways (although I liked some of them).

Regardless of the way people "actually" type (and I'm the same, while I type close to the proper way, I hardly do it completely right), it's still a real world application to the keyboard that provides a distinct separation of the keys, based on a generally accepted (and historically accurate ) format, and I think it provides a good source of continent separation (if maybe not a good reason to have the impassable borders there).

I'll try strip it back a bit, but I'm still a fan of the impassables along that concept, (if not the actual implementation that they currently stand in). I'd certainly think there should at least be one between TGB and YHN, as however you type, most people keep their hands on the right sides of the keyboard (even if they aren't using the correct fingering), and something like a pencil could provide a good break, (perhaps chewed a bit, to allow some gaps through it?), and also perhaps a spilled can of (non-brand specific) cola creating impassable streams of cola through the keyboard...

I don't know about that "most people use a one/two finger approach" assertion... seems to me that most people I know type the proper way, including myself.

Just saying.

I didn't say that most people used a 1/2 finger typing style, but that most people develop their typing style from a 1/2 finger approach....

... I suspect that relatively few people can do 'proper' touch-typing.

MrBenn wrote:I didn't say that most people used a 1/2 finger typing style, but that most people develop their typing style from a 1/2 finger approach....

... I suspect that relatively few people can do 'proper' touch-typing.

But that's what I meant: most people I know do type "properly." Not that it matters. Carry on.

ya take out the arrows, numpad and the scroll lock area

MrBenn wrote:I didn't say that most people used a 1/2 finger typing style, but that most people develop their typing style from a 1/2 finger approach....

... I suspect that relatively few people can do 'proper' touch-typing.

I'd suspect that a majority of professional typers (data entry/secretaries/receptionists) probably have done typing training and thus use close to a proper approach. I know I've certainly done some, both in school, and on random typing tutors of my own free will to improve my typing speed.

Regardless of whether people do it or not, it's still the generally accepted breakdown of key/finger ownership, and regardless of whether people "use" it, they should at lease -know- it. Who knows, maybe we'll help educate people to type better after they play on this map?

Okay, brought it back to just the keys and functions keys.

Separated left and right control keys. Going to leave Esc/Backspace/Space either as their own continent (or more likely) no continent.

The keys are now 24px wide (with larger keys being an even number of px) so 888's will fit in, and be centred - as shown

I've added in the impassables I had before - along the principle of "letters can only attack other keys on the same finger, and the space bar." Numbers can attack adjacent numbers. Not sure exactly how to work this on the right of the keyboard with the keys that aren't letters. Also need to add in links from number to F-key (1-F1, 2-F2, etc)

I am going to add in some one ways, such as from Caps Lock to Q and A (caps lock can attack adjacent letters?) and a left from < and a right from >, as they make sense to me from the keys .

Any other thoughts so far?

I really like this version, I have to say. Good work.

I'm going to make one button the "conquer" button... I'm thinking either Menu or Escape... Probably Escape, and give it a bonus or something? What do people think??

Press any key to conquer?

I've added some circuitry up the top to show the function key links... It's still a little messy and needs some work, and I need to find a nice way to make it look like a "cut" into the keyboard, can anyone more experienced than me suggest any tools I could play around with to try create that effect?

to be honest i'm not a fan of your current impassables because they are too arbitrary, too artificial.

i'd much rather see either a different gameplay where you get bonuses for spelling words

or if you want classic continents please use impassables like a chewing gum, an eraser, a pen, a cigarette, stuff you'd find on a jeyboard.

big crumbs of food!

DiM wrote:to be honest i'm not a fan of your current impassables because they are too arbitrary, too artificial.

i'd much rather see either a different gameplay where you get bonuses for spelling words

or if you want classic continents please use impassables like a chewing gum, an eraser, a pen, a cigarette, stuff you'd find on a jeyboard.

*nod* I've been thinking about that and will go about changing them.

I like the idea of changing the gameplay to make spelling words the goal, and removing the continents, although I still like the idea of splitting up the continents via typing fingers... Perhaps a compromise is possible?

Removing the impassables, adding in a few (such as suggested above) to create some more interesting game spots, reducing the continent bonuses so they only play a small roll in the gameplay, and adding in extra word bonuses?

Would something like that work? have you got any suggestions as to where I might aim to put the impassables to improve the gameplay? This is an honest request since I've not had as much experience designing maps, and any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

So I've taken off the continent glows, and brought it back to just a keyboard map as per DiM's suggestion, do people like this better? Mods - Could I please have the poll above removed so I can ask another question?

Obviously there's stuff that needs touching up, this is just a quick look. My opinion is on first glance, this looks a lot more realistic than the glowing borders. If we can change the gameplay completely and make it about spelling words, or holding certain key combinations, I think that would make it really interesting, but I'll need some feedback and ideas about how we could progress along that path.

Put in a couple of random, arbitraty (but realistic?) impassables. Obviously the cig shouldn't go where it is, but I like the way the smoke curls... but it probably won't stay there. Just there for the moment to get an idea of what it'll look like.

Comments please,

Tieryn wrote:So I've taken off the continent glows, and brought it back to just a keyboard map as per DiM's suggestion, do people like this better? Mods - Could I please have the poll above removed so I can ask another question?

Obviously there's stuff that needs touching up, this is just a quick look. My opinion is on first glance, this looks a lot more realistic than the glowing borders. If we can change the gameplay completely and make it about spelling words, or holding certain key combinations, I think that would make it really interesting, but I'll need some feedback and ideas about how we could progress along that path.

Put in a couple of random, arbitraty (but realistic?) impassables. Obviously the cig shouldn't go where it is, but I like the way the smoke curls... but it probably won't stay there. Just there for the moment to get an idea of what it'll look like.

Comments please,

might not even need to change the gameplay, just some powerful scripting, need help with it?

i dont think you need to divides it would be cool if it is all open IMO

zimmah wrote:might not even need to change the gameplay, just some powerful scripting, need help with it?

Uhm, I'll have a stab at it myself to begin with, I'm actually much more comfortable in notepad or vim than I am in photoshop so I think I'll be right, but definitely will need some help in checking the code, and also for funky gameplay ideas.

How is the map looking graphically? Is there anything major that I need to attend to? If so, can a cartographer please identify problem areas and I'll fix them as best I can.

I'd be happy with having it all open, I think that adds to it, and I've considered things such as the control keys (ctrl/shift/alt etc) being able to attack certain other keys, in particular common ones, like ctrl+n or alt+f, or maybe even all letters? (you can make key combo's however).

Perhaps we aim for complete openness, since in reality with a keyboard, any one key can come after any other one key... Why shouldn't you be able to attack from one to any other? Would this make the map entirely unplayable, or would it do the opposite? If everyone was aiming for different word bonuses, and you have to hold and defend the entire word to get the bonus.... then really it's not unfair on anyone.

We've gone big maps, we've gone small maps, but how about complete connectedness maps? Is this a stupid idea? It's got a certain appeal to me... and I think the keyboard would be on of the few concepts that it could actually fairly, or realistically, work in...

Consider:
Complete connectedness. Every territory borders every other territory (on the main key part - excluding F-keys, which have borders as shown? or not?)
A reasonable host of possible words are available, from two letter words from scrabble, through to longer and more complex words. (Preferably ones with no repeated letters, but in the case of that, just the constituant letters are required).

So - First drop, 6 player game, everyone gets 12 territories. Chances are some will have formed several words and get an unfair advantage...

Fix? - Perhaps everyone only starts with one character, but has a larger bonus - min 5, or 6 or something? to allow them to try and form words from turn one. (but not before).

At the outset, people will all be aiming for different words, unless a few overlap. If someone gets your letter, then chances are you could make another word anyway...

I'm just rambling at the moment.... how does this gameplay sound? anyone interested?

I like the no borders idea.

I don't like the word bonus one. You know everyone will think it's too confusing. Plus, most of the time, to form a word, your territories would have to be completely separated. I think in most cases that is not a good plan.

... So, if there's no borders, is this purely a territory race? or a key combination race? (assigning particular importance to the ctrl+shift+alt keys)?

And if there's no borders, and anything can attack anything else, it's irrelevant if your territories are grouped... they're all touching....

Or by no borders do you just mean no impassables as opposed to the complete connectedness concept?

I meant no impassables.

Complete connectedness, as in everbody can attack everybody else! This is madness!

Well no, madness is another map but it's certainly different...

I think it's got potential. Basically you would -have- to defend all of your letters, but so would everyone else... The potential to break opposition would be huge, but need to be balanced against everyone being able to break you.

Maybe we could group things based on hand.... so we'd have a left hand and a right hand of the keyboard, and they could attack each other within that, but only across connectd boundaries, to create some separation...?

This is just an idea.. it might be completely stupid... but it might, just might, be incredibly fun... I'm not sure that's why I want more comments