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Should this map be forged?

Yes!
72
51%
Yes!
70
49%
 
Total votes : 142

Postby Herakilla on Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:15 pm

big crumbs of food!
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Postby Tieryn on Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:21 pm

DiM wrote:to be honest i'm not a fan of your current impassables because they are too arbitrary, too artificial.

i'd much rather see either a different gameplay where you get bonuses for spelling words

or if you want classic continents please use impassables like a chewing gum, an eraser, a pen, a cigarette, stuff you'd find on a jeyboard.


*nod* I've been thinking about that and will go about changing them.

I like the idea of changing the gameplay to make spelling words the goal, and removing the continents, although I still like the idea of splitting up the continents via typing fingers... Perhaps a compromise is possible?

Removing the impassables, adding in a few (such as suggested above) to create some more interesting game spots, reducing the continent bonuses so they only play a small roll in the gameplay, and adding in extra word bonuses?

Would something like that work? have you got any suggestions as to where I might aim to put the impassables to improve the gameplay? This is an honest request since I've not had as much experience designing maps, and any help or suggestions would be appreciated.
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Postby Tieryn on Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:22 am

So I've taken off the continent glows, and brought it back to just a keyboard map as per DiM's suggestion, do people like this better? Mods - Could I please have the poll above removed so I can ask another question?

Obviously there's stuff that needs touching up, this is just a quick look. My opinion is on first glance, this looks a lot more realistic than the glowing borders. If we can change the gameplay completely and make it about spelling words, or holding certain key combinations, I think that would make it really interesting, but I'll need some feedback and ideas about how we could progress along that path.

Put in a couple of random, arbitraty (but realistic?) impassables. Obviously the cig shouldn't go where it is, but I like the way the smoke curls... but it probably won't stay there. Just there for the moment to get an idea of what it'll look like.

Comments please,

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Postby zimmah on Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:55 am

Tieryn wrote:So I've taken off the continent glows, and brought it back to just a keyboard map as per DiM's suggestion, do people like this better? Mods - Could I please have the poll above removed so I can ask another question?

Obviously there's stuff that needs touching up, this is just a quick look. My opinion is on first glance, this looks a lot more realistic than the glowing borders. If we can change the gameplay completely and make it about spelling words, or holding certain key combinations, I think that would make it really interesting, but I'll need some feedback and ideas about how we could progress along that path.

Put in a couple of random, arbitraty (but realistic?) impassables. Obviously the cig shouldn't go where it is, but I like the way the smoke curls... but it probably won't stay there. Just there for the moment to get an idea of what it'll look like.

Comments please,

Image



might not even need to change the gameplay, just some powerful scripting, need help with it?
Click image to enlarge.
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Postby Lone.prophet on Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:05 am

i dont think you need to divides it would be cool if it is all open IMO
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Postby Tieryn on Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:16 am

zimmah wrote:might not even need to change the gameplay, just some powerful scripting, need help with it?


Uhm, I'll have a stab at it myself to begin with, I'm actually much more comfortable in notepad or vim than I am in photoshop :P so I think I'll be right, but definitely will need some help in checking the code, and also for funky gameplay ideas.

How is the map looking graphically? Is there anything major that I need to attend to? If so, can a cartographer please identify problem areas and I'll fix them as best I can.

I'd be happy with having it all open, I think that adds to it, and I've considered things such as the control keys (ctrl/shift/alt etc) being able to attack certain other keys, in particular common ones, like ctrl+n or alt+f, or maybe even all letters? (you can make key combo's however).

Perhaps we aim for complete openness, since in reality with a keyboard, any one key can come after any other one key... Why shouldn't you be able to attack from one to any other? Would this make the map entirely unplayable, or would it do the opposite? If everyone was aiming for different word bonuses, and you have to hold and defend the entire word to get the bonus.... then really it's not unfair on anyone.

We've gone big maps, we've gone small maps, but how about complete connectedness maps? Is this a stupid idea? It's got a certain appeal to me... and I think the keyboard would be on of the few concepts that it could actually fairly, or realistically, work in...

Consider:
Complete connectedness. Every territory borders every other territory (on the main key part - excluding F-keys, which have borders as shown? or not?)
A reasonable host of possible words are available, from two letter words from scrabble, through to longer and more complex words. (Preferably ones with no repeated letters, but in the case of that, just the constituant letters are required).

So - First drop, 6 player game, everyone gets 12 territories. Chances are some will have formed several words and get an unfair advantage...

Fix? - Perhaps everyone only starts with one character, but has a larger bonus - min 5, or 6 or something? to allow them to try and form words from turn one. (but not before).

At the outset, people will all be aiming for different words, unless a few overlap. If someone gets your letter, then chances are you could make another word anyway...

I'm just rambling at the moment.... how does this gameplay sound? anyone interested?
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Postby InkL0sed on Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:23 am

I like the no borders idea.

I don't like the word bonus one. You know everyone will think it's too confusing. Plus, most of the time, to form a word, your territories would have to be completely separated. I think in most cases that is not a good plan.
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Postby Tieryn on Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:49 am

... So, if there's no borders, is this purely a territory race? or a key combination race? (assigning particular importance to the ctrl+shift+alt keys)?

And if there's no borders, and anything can attack anything else, it's irrelevant if your territories are grouped... they're all touching.... :P

Or by no borders do you just mean no impassables as opposed to the complete connectedness concept?
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Postby InkL0sed on Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:51 am

I meant no impassables.

Complete connectedness, as in everbody can attack everybody else! This is madness!
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Postby Tieryn on Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:02 pm

Well no, madness is another map :P but it's certainly different...

I think it's got potential. Basically you would -have- to defend all of your letters, but so would everyone else... The potential to break opposition would be huge, but need to be balanced against everyone being able to break you.

Maybe we could group things based on hand.... so we'd have a left hand and a right hand of the keyboard, and they could attack each other within that, but only across connectd boundaries, to create some separation...?

This is just an idea.. it might be completely stupid... but it might, just might, be incredibly fun... I'm not sure :P that's why I want more comments :)
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Postby whitestazn88 on Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:52 pm

i think you could do something like left hand letters are one group that can be totally open, right hand is totally open, and then maybe the space bar is a connector between the two, and so would the shift keys, as most typing teachers say you should use the opposite hand to shift a letter on the other hand.
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Postby InkL0sed on Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:53 pm

whitestazn88 wrote:i think you could do something like left hand letters are one group that can be totally open, right hand is totally open, and then maybe the space bar is a connector between the two, and so would the shift keys, as most typing teachers say you should use the opposite hand to shift a letter on the other hand.


I agree with this. Also, maybe the function keys up top would be another way around.
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Postby Tieryn on Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:11 pm

InkL0sed wrote:
whitestazn88 wrote:i think you could do something like left hand letters are one group that can be totally open, right hand is totally open, and then maybe the space bar is a connector between the two, and so would the shift keys, as most typing teachers say you should use the opposite hand to shift a letter on the other hand.


I agree with this. Also, maybe the function keys up top would be another way around.


I like this idea, this is along what I was thinking of. I really like the opposite-shift idea, that makes a lot of sense. Also yes, space and functions would be the way around...

I still like the idea of connecting up words, but I need to find a set of words, some long, some short, that use all letters in the alphabet, and don't have -heaps- of crossovers with letters (tho of course, some of them). I'll work on that and see what I can come up with.

I'll try make them CC-relevant, but some other special typing ones might be worthwhile, like stewardesses (the longest word spellable with only the left hand!) or Typewriter (all on the top row).

Of course the obligatory "Conquer" and maybe some shorter words. three or four letters.

Of course you only need to have the constituent letters for each word... But I need to work on a list of good words.
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Postby tenio on Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:59 pm

the above ideas = amazing

They seem great... but hopefully they will be able to play okay also


also backspace has to be bombardmeant key like no forts but it can bombard any other letter
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Postby Tieryn on Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:35 am

tenio wrote:also backspace has to be bombardmeant key like no forts but it can bombard any other letter


Oooh I like that! great idea!

Also, in terms of ways around, I think we could make it just the letters that are co-connected, so the number line could be the way around. And perhaps we need to have some marks for proper punctuation? (words with apostrophes, hyphens, question marks - [Why?]) or at least bonuses for having punctuation... (defying the internet trend!)

With the function keys providing +1 deploy on them per turn (although, I haven't really justified this, it's just an easy way to make a continent worth 12 with 12 keys spread out and less overwhelming). Or perhaps, we could make function keys like Kings in KotM or planes in Pearl Harbour. +2 for holding 3, +4 for holding 6, +8 for holding 9, etc, Tho I think I prefer the +1 deploy on them each turn. Makes them less dominating to the gameplay.

I also think we could have any key can attack escape. But the armies on escape, escape. -1 per turn? Ctrl+Escape could be a good combo, worth some stuff, and also the Escape/Backspace/Space keys could work like capital cities..
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Postby Tieryn on Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:41 am

hmm, and only using the - and + keys, there's only a limited set of mathematical possibilities...

Restricting ourselves to the single digit equations that work.

[subtraction, hold numbers, =, and - keys]
9-8=1 (same as 9-1=8)
9-7=2
9-6=3
9-5=4

8-7=1
8-6=2
8-5=3
8-4=4

7-6=1
7-5=2
7-3=4

6-5=1
6-4=2
6-3=3

5-4=1
5-3=2

4-3=1
4-2=2

3-2=1

[addition hold numbers, = and a Shift key]
1+1=2
1+2=3
1+3=4
1+4=5
1+5=6
1+6=7
1+7=8
1+8=9

2+2=4
2+3=5
2+4=6
2+5=7
2+6=8
2+7=9

3+3=6
3+4=7
3+5=8
3+6=9

4+4=8
4+5=9

Multiplication [Hold numbers, =, and Shift + 8]
2*2=4
2*3=6
2*4=8

3*3=9

Division [Hold numbers, = and /]
9/3=3
8/2=4
6/2=3
4/2=2

Or is this getting ridiculous? :P

Also, I suppose, holding the = key means you're the only one that can calculate, so we'd have to take out that restriction. (tho you'd need shift+= for addition)
Last edited by Tieryn on Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:20 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Tieryn on Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:09 am

Image

Just done some colour filtering on the keys. Red keys can attack all red keys, Blue keys can attack all blue keys.

The Green keys will be the only "continent" concept, and will work on a "required" basis, Hold 2 - +2, Hold 4 - +5, Hold all 8 - +10

Backspace will bombard all letter/number territories. Caps Lock WILL MAKE EVERYONE DISLIKE READING YOUR WRITING... haha... no, not sure yet what to do with CC Lock. or even if not to make it back to caps lock, and maybe have the CC logo on the Enter key?

Hey, I'll make "Enter" into "Conquer" - that makes more sense than "CC Lock" doesn't it?

Also, are people actually interested in this map? as was said before, I seem to be posting a lot, I'd really like some feedback please people.


Also - Here's a list of words I'm considering, and the letter usage breakdown.


Conquer, Club, Stewardesses, Typewriter, Foundry, The, Quick, Brown, Fox, Jumps, Over, Lazy, Dog, Risk, Dice, Premium, Kamchatka, Strategy, Deploy, Fortify, Attack (+L for Lackattack Bonus), Defend, Advance, Salamander

A 7, B 2, C 7, D 7, E 10, F 4, G 2, H 2, I 5, J 1, K 5, L 5, M 3, N 5, O 8, P 3, Q 2, R 10, S 5, T 8, U 5, V 1, W 3, X 1, Y 6, Z 1,

Also:
Ctrl+Z (Undo)
Ctrl+F (Find)
Ctrl+C (Copy)
Ctrl+X (Cut)
Ctrl+V (Paste)
Ctrl+Esc (Start Menu) (+ both start buttons = TRIPLE START!, some sort of super windows bonus! :P)


Alt+F4
Alt+F (File Menu)
Alt+H (Help Menu)
Alt+Tab (Change window)


Holding Shift adds +1 to each word you hold. Also allows some calculations to take place. (addition & multiplication)

Caps Lock gives -1 per word held, unless you also hold a Shift Key (I DON'T LIKE SHOUTING, but shift+caps is lowercase)


Can anyone think of any other words/combinations that might be good?
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Postby Telvannia on Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:37 pm

Add the delete key, and make control+alt+delete a -5 bonus.


Also i dont really get the cigarette... what about replacing it with a wire, and have the wire connecting to a mouse on the very edge of the map?
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Postby InkL0sed on Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:55 pm

Also, are people actually interested in this map? as was said before, I seem to be posting a lot, I'd really like some feedback please people.


I'm getting the same problem with my map.

To answer the question, yes I do like this map, although the gameplay is far from perfect.

On another note, I think you should make "Enter" into "Conquer."
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Postby Tieryn on Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:47 pm

Telvannia wrote:Add the delete key, and make control+alt+delete a -5 bonus.


Also i dont really get the cigarette... what about replacing it with a wire, and have the wire connecting to a mouse on the very edge of the map?


The cigarette is a temporary measure... I'll replace it with something more suitable when It hink of something. I thought of the cable, but I don't want it to split the space bar, or the function keys... I suppose it could run along between the function and number lines...

InKLosed wrote:On another note, I think you should make "Enter" into "Conquer."


Already done on the next version, :) looks much better.
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Postby tenio on Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:13 pm

what about crums? like food that gets stuck between the keys :shock:
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Postby Unit_2 on Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:32 pm

Tieryn wrote:Image

Just done some colour filtering on the keys. Red keys can attack all red keys, Blue keys can attack all blue keys.

The Green keys will be the only "continent" concept, and will work on a "required" basis, Hold 2 - +2, Hold 4 - +5, Hold all 8 - +10

Backspace will bombard all letter/number territories. Caps Lock WILL MAKE EVERYONE DISLIKE READING YOUR WRITING... haha... no, not sure yet what to do with CC Lock. or even if not to make it back to caps lock, and maybe have the CC logo on the Enter key?

Hey, I'll make "Enter" into "Conquer" - that makes more sense than "CC Lock" doesn't it?

Also, are people actually interested in this map? as was said before, I seem to be posting a lot, I'd really like some feedback please people.


Also - Here's a list of words I'm considering, and the letter usage breakdown.


Conquer, Club, Stewardesses, Typewriter, Foundry, The, Quick, Brown, Fox, Jumps, Over, Lazy, Dog, Risk, Dice, Premium, Kamchatka, Strategy, Deploy, Fortify, Attack (+L for Lackattack Bonus), Defend, Advance, Salamander

A 7, B 2, C 7, D 7, E 10, F 4, G 2, H 2, I 5, J 1, K 5, L 5, M 3, N 5, O 8, P 3, Q 2, R 10, S 5, T 8, U 5, V 1, W 3, X 1, Y 6, Z 1,

Also:
Ctrl+Z (Undo)
Ctrl+F (Find)
Ctrl+C (Copy)
Ctrl+X (Cut)
Ctrl+V (Paste)
Ctrl+Esc (Start Menu) (+ both start buttons = TRIPLE START!, some sort of super windows bonus! :P)


Alt+F4
Alt+F (File Menu)
Alt+H (Help Menu)
Alt+Tab (Change window)


Holding Shift adds +1 to each word you hold. Also allows some calculations to take place. (addition & multiplication)

Caps Lock gives -1 per word held, unless you also hold a Shift Key (I DON'T LIKE SHOUTING, but shift+caps is lowercase)


Can anyone think of any other words/combinations that might be good?


thast sweet, but TAKE THE CIG. OUT!!!! this is a kid friendly site.
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Postby InkL0sed on Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:36 pm

Haha Unit 2, aren't you supposed to be 12? Sorry if I'm mistaken.

Anyway, I agree that the cig needs to go.
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Postby Unit_2 on Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:44 pm

InkL0sed wrote:Haha Unit 2, aren't you supposed to be 12? Sorry if I'm mistaken.

Anyway, I agree that the cig needs to go.


i am...
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Postby ParadiceCity9 on Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:53 pm

Take that cigarette out of the picture...
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