Dealy Plaza

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Dealy Plaza

Postby demonfork on Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:55 am

JFK Assassination Map

I want this to be a conquest type map- I already have an Idea of which spaces need to be occupied in order to win game (see legend)

I'm still working out the attack routes, prob be something like streets connect all areas (Streets can attack all areas, grassy areas must go through streets to get to buildings, buildings must go through streets to get to grassy areas)

I want all snipers to be able to attack all spaces.

All conquest targets will start out as neutrals.


Click image to enlarge.
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EDIT: Added Roof access territories & bonus. Clarified attack routs.

Previous version: http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z308 ... 7189_l.jpg
Last edited by demonfork on Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dealy Plaza

Postby miniwally on Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:25 am

cia documents? i don't see any
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Re: Dealy Plaza

Postby demonfork on Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:54 am

miniwally wrote:cia documents? i don't see any


They are on the street
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Re: Dealy Plaza

Postby miniwally on Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:57 am

they're not on key
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Re: Dealy Plaza

Postby Martin Ronne on Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:27 am

Wow, looks great. Lets hope no one gives you any flack for the subject.
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Re: Dealy Plaza

Postby demonfork on Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:07 pm

Martin Ronne wrote:Wow, looks great. Lets hope no one gives you any flack for the subject.


Thanks, I'm gonna need a lot of help and suggestions on this one. Any thoughts on what I should do to next? What do I need to do to get it moved to the next level forum?
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Re: Dealy Plaza

Postby jbrettlip on Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:33 pm

How would anyone attack CIA? Perhaps include in each building an elevator territory, and a front door. THis would increase the number of territories, and allow logical access to the areas.
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Re: Dealy Plaza

Postby demonfork on Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:35 pm

jbrettlip wrote:How would anyone attack CIA? Perhaps include in each building an elevator territory, and a front door. THis would increase the number of territories, and allow logical access to the areas.


Thank you, great suggestion, I will add that to the map and see how it looks.
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Re: Dealy Plaza

Postby miniwally on Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:52 pm

you haven't answered my queston
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Re: Dealy Plaza

Postby demonfork on Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:54 pm

miniwally wrote:they're not on key


yea i don't if the docs should have a bonus on not, if so I will add a +1 in the key, otherwise it will not be in the key at all
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Re: Dealy Plaza

Postby miniwally on Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:53 pm

oh i only just realised it's a random dot on the street with a label CIA documents if it's part of the objective put it on key also the grapics could do wih some improvement but for a first draft it's good all the dots seem randomly placed though and you need attack routes
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Re: Dealy Plaza

Postby demonfork on Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:36 pm

miniwally wrote:oh i only just realised it's a random dot on the street with a label CIA documents if it's part of the objective put it on key also the grapics could do wih some improvement but for a first draft it's good all the dots seem randomly placed though and you need attack routes


I wanted to have somewhat of a chaotic attack route

maybe something like:

-Snipers can attack all positions on the map (or maybe the snipers can only bombard and not overtake)

-all ground level areas are a free for all

- buildings tops are accessed through street level doors and stair/elevator positions


Maybe I will have some positions that can not attack like;

CIA docs and Magic bullet can only be captured and can not attack other positions.
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Re: Dealy Plaza

Postby miniwally on Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:14 am

put the attack routes on the map then so i can see how it would look then i'll comment further
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Re: Dealy Plaza

Postby demonfork on Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:28 am

Added Roof access territories and bonus & clarified attack routs.
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Re: Dealy Plaza

Postby miniwally on Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:27 pm

graphics are going to change surely?
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Re: Dealy Plaza

Postby oaktown on Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:42 pm

at some point there will have to be a conversation around the taste level of this map idea...
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Re: Dealy Plaza

Postby demonfork on Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:12 pm

oaktown wrote:at some point there will have to be a conversation around the taste level of this map idea...


Sure lets have some conversation.

Can you argue that playing a gaming map that deals with historical subject matter surrounding the events that occurred on Nov 22, 1963 in Dealy Plaza would be at a lower taste level than say a gaming map recreating the 1941 assault on Pear Harbor that claimed the lives of over 2300 civilians and soldiers and injured an additional 1178 (including my wifes grandfather)?
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Re: Dealy Plaza

Postby miniwally on Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:58 pm

oaktown wrote:at some point there will have to be a conversation around the taste level of this map idea...


oh yh XD
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Re: Dealy Plaza

Postby oaktown on Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:03 pm

Hey demonfork... it wasn't my intention to start an argument with you. :D I fully understand that war, death, and destruction is at the center of the CC game, and to say that a map shouldn't be made because it depicts an act of aggression can sound a bit hollow from anybody who is a regular here (like me).

That said, having been around the Foundry for a while I've seen some nasty debates about whether or not a subject is appropriate because some subjects hit a little too close to home. The Iraq map was pretty emotional to some, as was the drug war map. And any attempt to depict the holy land - or even any suggestion of making such a map - ends in tears!

I wasn't alive when JFK was assassinated, so while it was a tragedy the event doesn't hit me very personally. But as it is a subject that will be very personal to some, I just want to caution you to tread carefully, be prepared for criticism about the subject (and the suggestion that a government/CIA conspiracy assassinated our the president), and most importantly keep the taste-level of the map high, which I believe you intend on doing.
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Re: Dealy Plaza

Postby BrendanGillis on Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:13 pm

The concept is great but there is definitely a lot to work on. Here are my suggestions...

1. Most importantly, you're gonna have to redraw this one from scratch, using the picture you have as a guide (unless you have Paul J. Burke's permission, that is). Keep in mind that you need to resize your map, as the Drafting Room guidelines state that draft images should not be larger than 630x600px (small image) or 840x800px (large image).

2. There is way too much white space, you need to fill that with more of the local geography, a picture of JFK maybe (make sure it's public domain) and nicer looking legends, titles, etc. It also might help to zoom in on the area you currently have displayed or change the perspective, as that would kill some of the dead areas you have now.

3. Remove dots and replace with images of the things they represent. The snipers on the roof could easily be drawn in, as well as the cars in the motorcade, Zapruder, bystanders. Also sniper 1 is the reputed location of Lee Harvey Oswald, and it makes sense too label it as such. Whether you think he did it or not his name is forever connected with this day and he is of historical significance. If you're a conspiracy theorist, just put his last name in 'scare quotes' .

4. Try to carve up the space (within reason) with some kinda lines to make more territories, even if its just a piece of bare pavement with nothing on it. (See the feudal war map for an example of nice subtle territory boundaries). Don't do this to the wall of buildings, just the ground and maybe rooftops. Essentially treat the buildings as unplayable areas other their roofs/windows/doors/entry points.

5. You need to develop your attacking lines somehow, the gameplay aspect of this one is gonna be a handful.

6. Lastly, you gotta have a grassy knoll (it's near zapruder, just re-label). Those are the two words that pop into my head when i think about the Kennedy assassination...
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Re: Dealy Plaza

Postby demonfork on Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:14 pm

oaktown wrote:Hey demonfork... it wasn't my intention to start an argument with you. :D I fully understand that war, death, and destruction is at the center of the CC game, and to say that a map shouldn't be made because it depicts an act of aggression can sound a bit hollow from anybody who is a regular here (like me).

That said, having been around the Foundry for a while I've seen some nasty debates about whether or not a subject is appropriate because some subjects hit a little too close to home. The Iraq map was pretty emotional to some, as was the drug war map. And any attempt to depict the holy land - or even any suggestion of making such a map - ends in tears!

I wasn't alive when JFK was assassinated, so while it was a tragedy the event doesn't hit me very personally. But as it is a subject that will be very personal to some, I just want to caution you to tread carefully, be prepared for criticism about the subject (and the suggestion that a government/CIA conspiracy assassinated our the president), and most importantly keep the taste-level of the map high, which I believe you intend on doing.


I appreciate and value your feedback, your contributions to the map foundry speak for themselves.

If I am fighting an up hill battle of criticism trying to get this map pushed through the foundry, then I will pursue another subject matter. This being my first attempt at a map I need to eliminate as many unnecessary problems as possible.

That said, I think that this could be a very cool map. JFK conspiracy theory has fascinated me for quite some time now and I'm not alone. I have read sources that report that even to this day something like 70% of the US believe that a conspiracy did take place, that the single gunman theory is false and that the Government played a role in the assassination.
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Re: Dealy Plaza

Postby demonfork on Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:24 pm

BrendanGillis wrote:The concept is great but there is definitely a lot to work on. Here are my suggestions...

1. Most importantly, you're gonna have to redraw this one from scratch, using the picture you have as a guide (unless you have Paul J. Burke's permission, that is). Keep in mind that you need to resize your map, as the Drafting Room guidelines state that draft images should not be larger than 630x600px (small image) or 840x800px (large image).

2. There is way too much white space, you need to fill that with more of the local geography, a picture of JFK maybe (make sure it's public domain) and nicer looking legends, titles, etc. It also might help to zoom in on the area you currently have displayed or change the perspective, as that would kill some of the dead areas you have now.

3. Remove dots and replace with images of the things they represent. The snipers on the roof could easily be drawn in, as well as the cars in the motorcade, Zapruder, bystanders. Also sniper 1 is the reputed location of Lee Harvey Oswald, and it makes sense too label it as such. Whether you think he did it or not his name is forever connected with this day and he is of historical significance. If you're a conspiracy theorist, just put his last name in 'scare quotes' .

4. Try to carve up the space (within reason) with some kinda lines to make more territories, even if its just a piece of bare pavement with nothing on it. (See the feudal war map for an example of nice subtle territory boundaries). Don't do this to the wall of buildings, just the ground and maybe rooftops. Essentially treat the buildings as unplayable areas other their roofs/windows/doors/entry points.

5. You need to develop your attacking lines somehow, the gameplay aspect of this one is gonna be a handful.

6. Lastly, you gotta have a grassy knoll (it's near zapruder, just re-label). Those are the two words that pop into my head when i think about the Kennedy assassination...



Wow thank you very much for the feedback.

I'm definitely going to redraw the entire map, I am only using this image as a basis to form my idea. Should I start with a 600/630 or should I go bigger then scale it down later?

I think that displaying a picture of JFK is a great Idea and I will incorporate that into my future work. I was also thinking about including a 2 or 3 line factoid somewhere in the border.

I will try to come up with some cool images that would be representative of their name, maybe I could use cross-hairs to represent the snipers.

Do you think I should try to stay with the 3-D style perspective or should I make the map flat?

Should I try and work out the game play mechanics first?

What would be my logical next step?
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Re: Dealy Plaza

Postby BrendanGillis on Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:51 am

I'm not a mapmaker, or a graphics artist, just a cc player with to much time on his hands who reads and comments on the map making threads between turns while procrastinating from my various math courses... That being said, I can't really say what size is the best to start with when drawing your map, one of the veteran map-makers would be better to ask. I like the 3d look, it's refreshing as most cc maps are top down. The viewing angle may be a bit high however, and i still think you could zoom in a little. As for your next step, I would say try to come up with an original, workable image that shows some territory connections you'd like to have and meets the qualifications for a first draft. If all goes well you'll get moved to the drafting room and then you'll probably see a lot more discussion about your project. Once you're there, the graphics, gameplay and tastefulness will be addressed and any number of things are liable to change throughout the process, but until you have a working draft your feedback will be limited. I was thinking about one gameplay aspect however... It strikes me that whoever holds kennedy's car should be the winner, so maybe you could have a lot of neutrals (50-100) on kennedy that reset each turn, or an autodeploy of x-amount of neutrals on his car to make it harder to conquer as time moves on (if this is possible with the xml, which i also know nothing about). Further, the snipers should be the only terts allowed to attack kennedy himself. After all, he was the only target of whoever committed the crime, this wasn't a shooting-spree-free-for-all.
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Re: Dealy Plaza

Postby jbrettlip on Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:08 am

I think you should work on the gameplay and attack routes before spending too much time redrawing.
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