New "Intensity Cubes"

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Re: New "Intensity Cubes"

Postby MNDuke on Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:12 pm

Then explain why the dice are so streaky?
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Re: New "Intensity Cubes"

Postby Metsfanmax on Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:18 pm

MNDuke wrote:Then explain why the dice are so streaky?


There's no reason to believe that the dice are streaky. Streaks obviously can happen in random processes, but to even begin to believe that there's a problem, a sizable number of the player base would also need to be showing signs of having lots of streaks. Anecdotal evidence from two players does not make it there.
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Re: New "Intensity Cubes"

Postby natty dread on Fri Aug 20, 2010 5:28 pm

I have found the dice less streaky since the change.

Before, you could use the tactic of "roll and wait", to try to hit the good streaks. If you get +2:s, keep rolling, when you get a -2 stop for a while and resume after a pause.

Now this tactic doesn't work anymore, there doesn't seem to be recognizable streaks to take advantage of. The dice are less predictable.

I for one think this is a good thing. It levels the playing field - everyone gets the same random dice, no one can "boost" their chances at better rolls anymore.

Of course some people might be pissed because they had been relying on the roll & wait strategy and now they perceive to get worse dice because their rolling strategy doesn't work anymore. TOUGH SHIT. Adjust your strategies and quit complaining.
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Re: New "Intensity Cubes"

Postby danfrank on Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:48 pm

natty_dread wrote:
Of course some people might be pissed because they had been relying on the roll & wait strategy and now they perceive to get worse dice because their rolling strategy doesn't work anymore. TOUGH SHIT. Adjust your strategies and quit complaining.





:lol: :lol: CHEW HARDER
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Re: New "Intensity Cubes"

Postby AAFitz on Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:34 am

Ive defended the dice as much as anyone...however, since the change, I have found that I lose to 1's far more and with far more armies than I ever remember before. I also see much larger stacks losing to small piles on a regular basis, where I really hardly saw it before.

No doubt this could be perception, but I never minded the dice all that much before, and now I simply cant believe how impossible they feel. Again, its perception and perhaps cant be trusted, but I have some experienced, and am pretty sure Im not imagining it.
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Re: New "Intensity Cubes"

Postby Metsfanmax on Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:01 am

AAFitz wrote:Ive defended the dice as much as anyone...however, since the change, I have found that I lose to 1's far more and with far more armies than I ever remember before. I also see much larger stacks losing to small piles on a regular basis, where I really hardly saw it before.

No doubt this could be perception, but I never minded the dice all that much before, and now I simply cant believe how impossible they feel. Again, its perception and perhaps cant be trusted, but I have some experienced, and am pretty sure Im not imagining it.


Use the Dice Streaks script in the Tools forum and see if you come up with strange results.
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Re: New "Intensity Cubes"

Postby Nola_Lifer on Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:56 am

I guess some people don't want random dice they want fair dice. I feel that is the reason for complaints about losing 10v2 and so on and so forth. Also, I am sure they would be just as pissed in real life if they'd lost it. Computer can't generate randomness even in Vegas they are programed so that machines win at a certain %. So thanks lack and everyone else who is involved regarding the dice. I am sure they get shitty dice too :P
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Re: New "Intensity Cubes"

Postby natty dread on Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:17 am

Computer can't generate randomness


Random numbers used by CC are not computer-generated.
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Re: New "Intensity Cubes"

Postby wolfpack0530 on Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:22 am

I am seeing the same argument over and over now. One side is concerned only with the mathematics and its truthfulness. (his opinion is accurate)

the other side is saying, yes i understand that, but look at these results. When you look at these unbeleivable strings of 'unlikely' events happening over and over and within close proximity of each other, it seems very odd, and strange. it also seems to be counterproductive to the point, or (i cant believe i am using this word) 'spirit' of the decision to make the dice random in the first place. it is all about trying to create a fair and level situation for all players.

Mets, we understand the laws of randomness and random numbers moreso than you think. We just realize that his is not a cryptology club, or advanced math theory chat room. This is a game site, that is striving for fairness.

WHO GIVES A f*ck THAT 1000 CONSECUTIVE 1'S IS RANDOM??? If that ever happened to anyone here, the powers that be would probably at least have the notion that the system might be broken, and that THIS random they chose, was far INFERIOR to the previous random that worked decently for years.

This is my thinking in a nutshell.

Lets say you have a situation where you have a 15 v 3. and you fail. That is a rare occurence!!! you just witnessed something that only happens .22 % of the time. And you would not be considered crazy to expect to win in that situation 99% of the time. Then you lose in that situation, once a day (at least). somedays 3 turns in a row. And you witness something with that low of a probability happens on your turns every day. The odds of that should be pretty low. Why it is the new norm, I dont know, but that is not what it SHOULD be.

What are you to think? You know that the dice are random, and you know that over 200 million turns, that you are likely to run into almost every 'impossible' scenario at least once just by chance, but you still cant help but think that.....................................
these games are just low probability occurance after low prob occ. It is the 'normal' dice that are becoming rare.

Soon we will be having players going, "holy shit 8 v 10 turned into 2 v 4. I should take a screenshot of this. the fellas wont believe it!!"

That is the issue at hand. Lets drop the semantics about the definition of random, and address the issue of getting a BETTER RANDOM , because the random they chose is a fucking dud!!!!
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Re: New "Intensity Cubes"

Postby wolfpack0530 on Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:23 am

natty_dread wrote:
Computer can't generate randomness


Random numbers used by CC are not computer-generated.



They are a list right. a list of random numbers, not related to each other, shuffled up in a random way, then listed in sequence, and chosen at a random place on the sequence.

Is that correct?
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Re: New "Intensity Cubes"

Postby natty dread on Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:30 am

wolfpack0530 wrote:
natty_dread wrote:
Computer can't generate randomness


Random numbers used by CC are not computer-generated.



They are a list right. a list of random numbers, not related to each other, shuffled up in a random way, then listed in sequence, and chosen at a random place on the sequence.

Is that correct?


They are random numbers acquired from random.org which acquires them by receiving and sampling atmospheric noise and converting it to digital form. Atmospheric noise being natural white noise it is a very reliable source of randomness.

These numbers are imported to CC as a list of 50000 numbers from which CC picks from a random place the numbers for each roll.

For all intents and purposes the numbers acquired by this system are completely random and unpredictable.
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Re: New "Intensity Cubes"

Postby AAFitz on Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:26 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
AAFitz wrote:Ive defended the dice as much as anyone...however, since the change, I have found that I lose to 1's far more and with far more armies than I ever remember before. I also see much larger stacks losing to small piles on a regular basis, where I really hardly saw it before.

No doubt this could be perception, but I never minded the dice all that much before, and now I simply cant believe how impossible they feel. Again, its perception and perhaps cant be trusted, but I have some experienced, and am pretty sure Im not imagining it.


Use the Dice Streaks script in the Tools forum and see if you come up with strange results.


You mean like losing 26 to 6 twice in two days. I dont need a script for that thanks. And Im not slowing down my freestyle games to keep track of something I dont need to keep track of.
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Re: New "Intensity Cubes"

Postby Metsfanmax on Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:17 pm

wolfpack0530 wrote:I am seeing the same argument over and over now. One side is concerned only with the mathematics and its truthfulness. (his opinion is accurate)

the other side is saying, yes i understand that, but look at these results. When you look at these unbeleivable strings of 'unlikely' events happening over and over and within close proximity of each other, it seems very odd, and strange. it also seems to be counterproductive to the point, or (i cant believe i am using this word) 'spirit' of the decision to make the dice random in the first place. it is all about trying to create a fair and level situation for all players.

Mets, we understand the laws of randomness and random numbers moreso than you think. We just realize that his is not a cryptology club, or advanced math theory chat room. This is a game site, that is striving for fairness.

WHO GIVES A f*ck THAT 1000 CONSECUTIVE 1'S IS RANDOM??? If that ever happened to anyone here, the powers that be would probably at least have the notion that the system might be broken, and that THIS random they chose, was far INFERIOR to the previous random that worked decently for years.

This is my thinking in a nutshell.

Lets say you have a situation where you have a 15 v 3. and you fail. That is a rare occurence!!! you just witnessed something that only happens .22 % of the time. And you would not be considered crazy to expect to win in that situation 99% of the time. Then you lose in that situation, once a day (at least). somedays 3 turns in a row. And you witness something with that low of a probability happens on your turns every day. The odds of that should be pretty low. Why it is the new norm, I dont know, but that is not what it SHOULD be.

What are you to think? You know that the dice are random, and you know that over 200 million turns, that you are likely to run into almost every 'impossible' scenario at least once just by chance, but you still cant help but think that.....................................
these games are just low probability occurance after low prob occ. It is the 'normal' dice that are becoming rare.

Soon we will be having players going, "holy shit 8 v 10 turned into 2 v 4. I should take a screenshot of this. the fellas wont believe it!!"

That is the issue at hand. Lets drop the semantics about the definition of random, and address the issue of getting a BETTER RANDOM , because the random they chose is a fucking dud!!!!


There's nothing "wrong" with the random we have now. If you want the dice to be rigged so that you win with both armies in a 3v2 exactly 37.17% of the time, then just go ahead and actually say it, but you're not going to find many supporters for that argument. The results from random.org have been shown to be quite fair to a high degree of accuracy. As a result, there's nothing wrong with the dice they've given us. The only thing wrong here, is the unreasonable expectation from people that if an event has a probability of 99% of occurring, that it should basically never happen.
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Re: New "Intensity Cubes"

Postby Kabanellas on Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:36 am

where is the randomness of losing in 2 consecutive rounds 14 troops while killing 0, in 7 3v2 dice rolls. It's getting ridiculous and it keeps happening all the time.
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Re: New "Intensity Cubes"

Postby TheSaxlad on Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:20 am

Are People STILL Complaining?


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