Conquer Cup I

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Re: Conquer Cup I

Postby lackattack on Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:15 am

Although I don't see any conflict between the Conquer Cup and our rules, I updated the guidelines as follows to make it clear:

Community Guidelines wrote:
  • This is a casual gaming site, not a serious one. If you want to bet money or "real-world items", then you'll have to find another site.
  • Wagering CC points is also not allowed.
  • The Conquer Cup is of course not considered gambling just because there is an entry fee associated with participation!
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Re: Conquer Cup I

Postby trapyoung on Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:22 am

So sayeth God.
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Re: Conquer Cup I

Postby comic boy on Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:26 am

Lack
Purely out of interest , does this now mean that any member can start a tournament , request an entrance fee and award prizes ?
Im a TOFU miSfit
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Re: Conquer Cup I

Postby MoB Deadly on Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:29 am

CJ Lues wrote:
Gillipig wrote:I made the mistake of not bonusmonkeying in the beginning. There's a big gorilla monkeying around in Australia in my game and he'll probably win it :( .


Did the same mate...! don't feel alone... :oops:


I DID! First Turn of the First Round! Game 9979939 Hope it pays off!
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Re: Conquer Cup I

Postby lackattack on Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:45 am

comic boy wrote:Lack
Purely out of interest , does this now mean that any member can start a tournament , request an entrance fee and award prizes ?


Even if it isn't gambling, you'd better check the Tournament Rules first.
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Re: Conquer Cup I

Postby drunkmonkey on Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:49 am

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/a ... skill.html

1) I'd guess no one in this discussion has the legal knowledge to determine the legality of an entry fee/prizes.
2) Just because lack hosted one, it doesn't mean he has to let you host one.
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Re: Conquer Cup I

Postby trapyoung on Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:42 pm

drunkmonkey wrote:http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/games-of-chance-vs-games-of-skill.html

1) I'd guess no one in this discussion has the legal knowledge to determine the legality of an entry fee/prizes.
2) Just because lack hosted one, it doesn't mean he has to let you host one.


Well the biggest problem is that this is a world-wide site and I think it's probably safe to say that some jurisdictions may allow people to gamble on games of strategy, but others do not.

Where are the servers located?
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Re: Conquer Cup I

Postby jbrettlip on Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:16 pm

Lack,

Thanks for the clarification. Now can you answer the question of "Can two members publicly challenge each other to a 1v1, with the loser buying the winner premium"?

And if not, why has it been allowed in the past, with no discipline etc.
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Re: Conquer Cup I

Postby Metsfanmax on Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:03 pm

drunkmonkey wrote:http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/games-of-chance-vs-games-of-skill.html

1) I'd guess no one in this discussion has the legal knowledge to determine the legality of an entry fee/prizes.
2) Just because lack hosted one, it doesn't mean he has to let you host one.


There are only a couple of states where the referenced gambling is illegal, and it's each individual's job to know whether or not they are legally allowed to participate in gambling events. At any rate, CC is based out of Canada, so the US laws apply on the end of US users only.
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Re: Conquer Cup I

Postby Gillipig on Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:38 am

MoB Deadly wrote:
CJ Lues wrote:
Gillipig wrote:I made the mistake of not bonusmonkeying in the beginning. There's a big gorilla monkeying around in Australia in my game and he'll probably win it :( .


Did the same mate...! don't feel alone... :oops:


I DID! First Turn of the First Round! Game 9979939 Hope it pays off!

By the looks of that game you're no the only monkey.
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Re: Conquer Cup I

Postby king achilles on Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:28 am

jbrettlip wrote:Lack,

Thanks for the clarification. Now can you answer the question of "Can two members publicly challenge each other to a 1v1, with the loser buying the winner premium"?

And if not, why has it been allowed in the past, with no discipline etc.


I do not recall any past C&A cases where two people had a bet or wagered a premium prize for a game. If there is, please do enlighten us or report them and they will be dealt with.
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Re: Conquer Cup I

Postby comic boy on Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:33 am

At the end of the day this is Lacks site and he has the perfect right to amend or twist the rules as he sees fit. Obviously there are pitfalls for him in such a strategy , it is showing contempt some might think and certainly it indicates a willingness to devalue the integrity of the site .
This is however a business and consequently it needs to generate money , obviously Lack thinks this is the way to go , we might disagree but we are not shareholders and to be fair dont know the financial position.
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Re: Conquer Cup I

Postby jbrettlip on Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:54 am

I completely understand about changing the business strategy. Amending the rules makes sense too. This tourney is completely voluntary, and if people want to risk $5 to win an ipad, fine. But I will tell you that regardless of what the rules say, it is gambling, by definition. Look at the lockdowned online poker sites, and I really think that if Lack starts making these constant tourneys, and bringing in big bucks, the government might start to take notice. I am sure he is a tiny fish in that regard, but I like this site and would not want it to dissappear.
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Re: Conquer Cup I

Postby AndyDufresne on Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:57 am

jbrettlip wrote:I completely understand about changing the business strategy. Amending the rules makes sense too. This tourney is completely voluntary, and if people want to risk $5 to win an ipad, fine. But I will tell you that regardless of what the rules say, it is gambling, by definition. Look at the lockdowned online poker sites, and I really think that if Lack starts making these constant tourneys, and bringing in big bucks, the government might start to take notice. I am sure he is a tiny fish in that regard, but I like this site and would not want it to dissappear.


I understand your concern, jbrettlip. If Lackattack and his legal counsel had concerns that the Conquer Cup was a form of gambling, and not a tournament akin to other sports tournaments or boardgame tournaments with an entry fee for participation and no real 'wagering' of 'stakes,' he wouldn't have risked (no pun intended) any sort of legal predicament.


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Re: Conquer Cup I

Postby drunkmonkey on Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:15 am

I like how the discussion on gambling turned from "How come you can set up gambling when the site prohibits it? You hypocrite!!!" to "We're just looking out for you, in a legal sense".
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Re: Conquer Cup I

Postby trapyoung on Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:16 am

AndyDufresne wrote:I understand your concern, jbrettlip. If Lackattack and his legal counsel...



How do I join this winning team?
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Re: Conquer Cup I

Postby KraphtOne on Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:08 pm

demonfork wrote:
danfrank wrote:AND.... This is gambling , lets not sugarcoat and call it something else. As i quoted in an earlier post , lack is offering " real world items " in exchange for a 5 dollar entry fee and he is also taking a RAKE for his efforts. A generous one in that.. am i opposed to it .not all. is it in violation of his own rules. well yes it is.. Has the integrity of cc been tarnished , well now that is for you to decide when you enter your precious personal info into this site . There was no explanation as to why CC needed to raise X amount of dollars overnight which should leave one wondering. And for those of you who sold your personal info for CC credits to join well :lol: :lol:


Sorry bubb but you and your little bullet proof ass bandit are wrong...

It's considered gambling if you play a game of CHANCE for stakes....CC is a game of SKILL not CHANCE therefore it is not gambling..

This is why Poker is legal in non gambling states because it's considered a game of SKILL and not a game of CHANCE.


In america online poker for money is illegal... only way to play for prizes is to join a "poker club" the "club" can charge a membership fee, and can hold tournaments for prizes including cash... the "club" is not allowed to charge fees for said tournaments, as this would be considered gambling... as of right now that's the only way to get around american online gambling laws, but i'm sure they'll put an end to that soon too...

lack is pretty close to obeying american laws here, but is incorrect in assuming that the feds wouldn't consider this gambling... they would... and i predict future tournaments will be an entry fee of conquer credits only... and that membership fees will change... but we'll see
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Re: Conquer Cup I

Postby jammyjames on Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:16 pm

Nice - 1st game.. Second eliminated.. Thanks MR Private!!
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Re: Conquer Cup I

Postby natty dread on Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:07 pm

KraphtOne wrote:In america


I thought CC was based in Canada.
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Re: Conquer Cup I

Postby Gillipig on Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:01 pm

natty_dread wrote:
KraphtOne wrote:In america


I thought CC was based in Canada.

Montreal to be exact. Maybe American users wouldn't be allowed to play on the site if it was considered a gambling site!? I've played quite a lot of online poker on multiple international sites and I've never played against Americans. Plenty of Canadians but no Americans.
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Re: Conquer Cup I

Postby Night Strike on Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:02 pm

comic boy wrote:Lack
Purely out of interest , does this now mean that any member can start a tournament , request an entrance fee and award prizes ?


No.
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Re: Conquer Cup I

Postby KraphtOne on Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:08 pm

Gillipig wrote:
natty_dread wrote:
KraphtOne wrote:In america


I thought CC was based in Canada.

Montreal to be exact. Maybe American users wouldn't be allowed to play on the site if it was considered a gambling site!? I've played quite a lot of online poker on multiple international sites and I've never played against Americans. Plenty of Canadians but no Americans.



none of the poker sites are based in the united states... which is why they got away for so long with americans playing on their sites for money...

but not anymore...

the major players in the online poker gaming industry were also arrested for their attempts to mask where american funds were going... arrested and brought to america through extradition ;)

like i said he'll either go all CC points for entry fees (in which case he wouldnt be able to charge for cc points) or just close off the tournies and cc points to americans
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Re: Conquer Cup I

Postby Gillipig on Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:26 pm

KraphtOne wrote:
Gillipig wrote:
natty_dread wrote:
KraphtOne wrote:In america


I thought CC was based in Canada.

Montreal to be exact. Maybe American users wouldn't be allowed to play on the site if it was considered a gambling site!? I've played quite a lot of online poker on multiple international sites and I've never played against Americans. Plenty of Canadians but no Americans.



none of the poker sites are based in the united states... which is why they got away for so long with americans playing on their sites for money...

but not anymore...

the major players in the online poker gaming industry were also arrested for their attempts to mask where american funds were going... arrested and brought to america through extradition ;)

like i said he'll either go all CC points for entry fees (in which case he wouldnt be able to charge for cc points) or just close off the tournies and cc points to americans

I just don't understand why Americans can't play on poker or other gambling sites based in other countries. In Sweden we have a government owned company that has monopoly on gambling in Sweden. It's called "Svenskaspel" (basically meaning "Swedish games"). But it doesn't stop Swedish citizens from playing on gambling sites based in other countries. Only from playing on sites based in Sweden. Weird laws you guys have. All of a sudden USA and USSR seem pretty much identical.
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Re: Conquer Cup I

Postby slowreactor on Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:42 pm

Just a suggestion for next time:

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, send out a message if you're going to be changing around the game type from a 6-man to a 5-man, so we have a chance to bail out. It makes a huge difference for the game type. Basically, I paid to play one game, and got another. If this happens again you won't be getting my money.
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Re: Conquer Cup I

Postby KraphtOne on Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:49 pm

Gillipig wrote:
KraphtOne wrote:
Gillipig wrote:
natty_dread wrote:
KraphtOne wrote:In america


I thought CC was based in Canada.

Montreal to be exact. Maybe American users wouldn't be allowed to play on the site if it was considered a gambling site!? I've played quite a lot of online poker on multiple international sites and I've never played against Americans. Plenty of Canadians but no Americans.



none of the poker sites are based in the united states... which is why they got away for so long with americans playing on their sites for money...

but not anymore...

the major players in the online poker gaming industry were also arrested for their attempts to mask where american funds were going... arrested and brought to america through extradition ;)

like i said he'll either go all CC points for entry fees (in which case he wouldnt be able to charge for cc points) or just close off the tournies and cc points to americans

I just don't understand why Americans can't play on poker or other gambling sites based in other countries. In Sweden we have a government owned company that has monopoly on gambling in Sweden. It's called "Svenskaspel" (basically meaning "Swedish games"). But it doesn't stop Swedish citizens from playing on gambling sites based in other countries. Only from playing on sites based in Sweden. Weird laws you guys have. All of a sudden USA and USSR seem pretty much identical.


It's called the federal wire act of 1961... it was to make anyone making sports bets over the phone illegal... the federal government considers the internet a form of wire communication... it's currently being lobbied in the courts and through congress that the internet not be considered part of the wire act...

the funniest thing is that it's not illegal for an american to gamble online for millions of dollars... i can bet all day long and do whatever... what IS illegal is me using my bank to transfer funds for such things... i could drive to canada, hand lack money, drive back to the us and play all i want... kinda silly... of course i'd have to drive back up there to collect my ipad...

thankfully poker players have a ton of money to hand congressmen to get this ship righted... the world trade organization even ruled that the US's prohibiting of sports betting and online gambling was illegal and fined us...

hopefully it'll be remedied soon so we can blow our money like we used to
Look on my works ye mighty and despair...
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