[09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby Mr_Adams on Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:39 pm

Four20 wrote:thanks for nothing punk. Nice ratings ya leave me bitch, i'll smoke your ass anytime in this game. You suck


This is what I get for leaving somebody 11/15 stars. This is why the new rating system sucks.

and then

Four20 wrote:my fairplay, attendance and attitude were excellent, f*ck you
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby jiminski on Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:14 pm

Mr_Adams wrote:
Four20 wrote:thanks for nothing punk. Nice ratings ya leave me bitch, i'll smoke your ass anytime in this game. You suck


This is what I get for leaving somebody 11/15 stars. This is why the new rating system sucks.

and then

Four20 wrote:my fairplay, attendance and attitude were excellent, f*ck you



well i hope you gave him a 5 for Attitude, the fella is a charmer!
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby Mr_Adams on Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:19 pm

I gave him a four. If I play him again, I'm changing it to a 0
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby azezzo on Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:16 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:We hear you guys, don't worry. Stay tuned and perhaps we can craft a system that fits everyone's needs and wants.


--Andy


thanks for taking us seriously
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby Orwell on Sat Jun 21, 2008 12:03 am

So, I am against the change (as I stated about 40 posts ago) because I do not think we can quantify what these ratings mean - Personally, I found a method of feedback that was both consistent and specific whether positive or negative (I am not a fan of neutral).
After a couple weeks of this rating system, I think I understand even better now why I am against it: I consider a 5 rating is average and anything less to be "flawed" - basically, I can evaluate other players starting at 5 and deduct from there as I see fit.

Now, if I could make a hybrid of this system and the old, and CC wanted it to be a rating system - then make the first criteria to be either positive or negative and then a rating system of 1-5. That is, at the very least, quantifiable.
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby Trouserpants on Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:02 am

Wow, I got my first retaliatory rating today for anyone who thought the system disallowed it. The guy obviously knew I wasn't happy with him and that I was going to rate him lowly, so he whacked me with 1 stars all round pre-emptivly. I did nothing wrong in the game. Brilliant.
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby VermiciousDad on Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:48 am

Besides for my recommendation to drop the lowest and highest rating, I also think that some verbage should be required. I am getting ratings from guys that slam my "fair play" and I would love to know why...

Keep up the good work!
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby jiminski on Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:50 am

Trouserpants wrote:Wow, I got my first retaliatory rating today for anyone who thought the system disallowed it. The guy obviously knew I wasn't happy with him and that I was going to rate him lowly, so he whacked me with 1 stars all round pre-emptivly. I did nothing wrong in the game. Brilliant.


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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby bayou on Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:24 am

This just gives the ability for a player pissed off because you beat him to rate you low without having to explain it.
And we have no chance of calling the player on it because there is no place for feedback.
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby jiminski on Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:36 am

bayou wrote:This just gives the ability for a player pissed off because you beat him to rate you low without having to explain it.
And we have no chance of calling the player on it because there is no place for feedback.



I think i agree.. and with a little tweak i.e. perhaps the addition of Comment/feedback? the system may be improved.

Come and give your input and have a vote if you like: Community Moderated Comment Forum
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby Mustapha Mond on Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:05 pm

It's official. Except for the one tournament I'm in, I will not be joining any more games and I will not renew my membership until this crap rating systems goes away.

Yet AGAIN, I had a private give me a 1-star rating in a trips game (2530661) for "fair play". What can I say? We played well and so did they. At one point, they actually had the upper hand, but we executed well as a team and turned it around. In what bizarro alternate universe does that not constitute "fair play"???

The ratings are COMPLETELY useless if they contain ratings like that. With the old system, if someone gave a negative, a) they had to explain themselves and b) the other person got a chance to respond. It was transparent.

Frankly, I'd pay a couple of bucks more on my membership to help fund a moderator for the old feedback system if that's what it takes.
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby azezzo on Sat Jun 21, 2008 4:43 pm

Mustapha Mond wrote:It's official. Except for the one tournament I'm in, I will not be joining any more games and I will not renew my membership until this crap rating systems goes away.

Yet AGAIN, I had a private give me a 1-star rating in a trips game (2530661) for "fair play". What can I say? We played well and so did they. At one point, they actually had the upper hand, but we executed well as a team and turned it around. In what bizarro alternate universe does that not constitute "fair play"???

The ratings are COMPLETELY useless if they contain ratings like that. With the old system, if someone gave a negative, a) they had to explain themselves and b) the other person got a chance to respond. It was transparent.

Frankly, I'd pay a couple of bucks more on my membership to help fund a moderator for the old feedback system if that's what it takes.


I completely agree, i too would be willing to pay a couple of bucks more to improve this site.
And if most people were honest about how much time they spend on this site, then no one should complain about a couple of dollars more. Right now as it stands we are paying $2.08 per month to belong to this mostly wonderful site. Thats a whole lot cheaper than porn or gambling online.
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby AndyDufresne on Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:31 pm

We hear you, we do. We've got some ideas to help craft a better system that serves your wants and our needs. We want to keep everyone happy, so we're focusing extra effort on it all.


--Andy
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby bayou on Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:37 pm

Mustapha Mond wrote:It's official. Except for the one tournament I'm in, I will not be joining any more games and I will not renew my membership until this crap rating systems goes away.

Yet AGAIN, I had a private give me a 1-star rating in a trips game (2530661) for "fair play". What can I say? We played well and so did they. At one point, they actually had the upper hand, but we executed well as a team and turned it around. In what bizarro alternate universe does that not constitute "fair play"???

The ratings are COMPLETELY useless if they contain ratings like that. With the old system, if someone gave a negative, a) they had to explain themselves and b) the other person got a chance to respond. It was transparent.

Frankly, I'd pay a couple of bucks more on my membership to help fund a moderator for the old feedback system if that's what it takes.


Its happening the same in reverse also, Mustapha Mond. I beat a high ranked player and get low stars for fairness? Fairness? I've never played an unfair game here. Never. Just because I didn't use the same tactics as he would, he gets pissed. With this system I get rudeness in chat and low rating. Before this I had 1 neg and over 100 positives.
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Postby Hound on Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:21 pm

bayou wrote:With this system I get rudeness in chat and low rating. Before this I had 1 neg and over 100 positives.


Good point. This system seems to provide less of an incentive for good behavior. Under the feedback system most players liked to avoid negatives, but if it's all just stars they'll even out over time so going off on someone for no good reason might become more common.
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby Napo on Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:10 am

I also agree that the new rating system has som errors.

We played a game and there was 1 guy constantly whining etc. I told him he should act normal and don't be aggressive to annyone that attacks him. I won the game and gave him 5 stars for both fair play and attendence, and a 2 for Attitude. Now he though I'd rate him low so he just gave me 1 star on all 3. Which is totally unfair as I played fair, I wasn't rude (maybe a litlle to him in his eyes, but others didn't think that) and, I played every time within the hour (except when I was asleep).

So therefore I suggest the following:

If you have 20 ratings, leave the 3-5 (other number can be inserted) lowest ratings out for your average. Then atleast people can see you have a good average and it was just 1 or more people that just gave stupid scores.
(I suggest that 10-20% lowest are ignored for the average)
And there also should be some info about how stars should be given. 5 stars for a normal player that logs in 2x/day and plays fair, and isn't rude/aggressive. And then just deduct stars for every thing he does wrong. If he becomes mad and starts insulting people, then just give 1 for attitude.


EDIT: Forgot to mention 1 thing: it's too easy to rate someone bad. So another possibility is that you're obligated to post a reason if you give a low score.
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby pieterpopken on Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:13 am

I personaly see nothing in medals systems the communist do it stalin did hitler did
better put the faces on the wall or hang them i dont believe in pyramids systems eather
i like to have some fun and fun chat and like tactics to make the nbrain more clever how we not kill each other in future that should be more the goal from a game not a fascistic looking like idiots game iff you go this way this club should burn
i am not using a synonym for my name you can have my adress annd phone number
you can knok on my door and shoot me about this question
Pieter Popken


lackattack wrote:Ratings

After a lot of brainstorming and community consultation, we've developed a ratings system that takes the best of feedback (i.e. it encourages good behaviour and discourages bad behaviour) and avoids the problems with feedback (i.e. it required full-time staff to settle disputes between pissed off members - which was often a mission impossible). It's called ratings and is fully explained in the Ratings section of the Instructions.

Here are the differences between ratings and feedback:

  • Instead of writing comments you rate the member from 1 to 5 stars on four attributes of game behaviour.
  • Next to your username will appear a star followed by your average overall rating.
  • As with the current feedback system, you will only be allowed to rate someone after finishing a game with them, before the game is archived. However, ratings are not tied to any particular game, so you can update an older rating for someone as your opinion changes over time (provided you complete more games with the member in question).
  • Ratings cannot be altered once the game is archived, but they can still be withdrawn.
  • To prevent tit-for-tat ratings, new or changed ratings will be hidden until the game is archived because at that point it is too late for the recipient to retaliate.
  • "Leave Ratings for:" links now show stars next to the username, grey indicating you still have to rate the player, yellow indicating you already have.
  • Ratings are based on members' opinions and Conquer Club staff will NOT review, judge, edit or delete individual ratings.

What happens to old feedback? Since there is no way to fairly translate feedback into ratings, everyone will start off with a blank rating score. Until the ratings system has matured we'll provide a link to view the old feedback on each member's profile. We'll figure out how to drop feedback for good at a later date, in consultation with the community.

Oh, and please be a good sport and earn yourself a decent rating. In the future we will release a tool for members to block those with low ratings from joining their games!

The Wall

Since you can no longer use feedback to leave cute comments for your Conquer Club buddies, we developed a guestbook-type tool for socializing with other players, inspired by Facebook's Wall. Everyone has their own wall on their profile, and anyone can post comments to it! Sounds like fun, eh?

You have complete control over your own wall! If you don't like a comment posted on your wall (or that you posted on someone else's) you can just delete it. You can also block someone from commenting on your wall by making them a foe. Like with private messages, you'll get email notifications for new wall comments (unless turned off from Control Panel -> Board Preferences -> Edit wall settings).

Webmasters: Interested in having a wall on your forum? I've published the code as an open-source phpBB MOD.

Duplicate Start A Game Thingy

Did you know that 48% of public games on the Join A Game pages are duplicates - meaning there are already waiting games with identical settings? Now when you try to start a new public game and there is already an identical public game out there, you'll be presented a listing of duplicates and given an opportunity to join one instead. Hopefully this will trim down the pages of waiting games and make games fill up quicker. You can still start your own game if you insist.

Rule #2 Change

To promote fairness and counter-negotiation, we have changed Rule #2 to encompass all forms of secret diplomacy. That's right, it all has to be done in game chat now. This will require some of you to change the way you do things, but it is for the better of the club. Please take a moment to review Rule #2: No secret diplomacy on the Rules page.

Friend & Foe Notes

As promised in the last update, we've modified Friends & Foes to allow notes. You can attach a note when you add a friend or foe either via the member's profile or via the Control Panel. We also loaded up any notes you had on the old Ignore List to your foes list.

Medals

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It's not all about score and rank now that we've got 9 game achievement medals for you to collect. Actually, each one is available in Bronze, Silver and Gold so make that 27 medals! Being awarded a medal will earn you the right to display it proudly on your profile and by your forum posts. Check out the medals page to see what you can win. Those of you who already qualify for any game achievement medals will get them after your next win.

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Look out as well for our line of contributions medals to be awarded to those who've helped make this website a better place.

You can expect more medals to come out in future updates...
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby pieterpopken on Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:19 am

if you really want rating losers from a game should not rate at all only winners should rate about gameplay from the others attitude you have always bad losers not grown ups who not understands what is life about then i talk abpout xx% of whats crawling on earth
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby cre8tiff on Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:54 am

Someone suggested a week ago that the Amazon model of feedback: use averaged stars, but display the comments for each assessment would be a good one. I still think that by marrying the current functionality with the ability to leave and respond to feedback is a solid one.

When you rate a person, you would be able to leave feedback. Likewise, when the feedback shows up, the receiver would be able to leave a response. Even is someone was being an asshat and just leaving all ones without leaving comments, the receiver of this bad score would get a chance to respond. Likewise someone who uses the "3 is average" method of rating could leave a message to that effect. Thus someone who may seem to have a "bad" rating from this kind of system would actually be shown to be merely average by reviewing the feedback.

I don't see why this sort of system will need moderation or heavy coding to implement.

BONUS SUGGESTION: I would also like to limit games to a certain raking or higher, say Lieutenant and higher on in my games. ;-)
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby jiminski on Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:09 am

cre8tiff wrote:Someone suggested a week ago that the Amazon model of feedback: use averaged stars, but display the comments for each assessment would be a good one. I still think that by marrying the current functionality with the ability to leave and respond to feedback is a solid one.

When you rate a person, you would be able to leave feedback. Likewise, when the feedback shows up, the receiver would be able to leave a response. Even is someone was being an asshat and just leaving all ones without leaving comments, the receiver of this bad score would get a chance to respond. Likewise someone who uses the "3 is average" method of rating could leave a message to that effect. Thus someone who may seem to have a "bad" rating from this kind of system would actually be shown to be merely average by reviewing the feedback.

I don't see why this sort of system will need moderation or heavy coding to implement.

BONUS SUGGESTION: I would also like to limit games to a certain raking or higher, say Lieutenant and higher on in my games. ;-)


i 'think' the Feedback Comment - Community Moderation thread in the General Discussion Forum is similar.
maybe you could come to lend a hand, try to thrash out the idea and look for holes?
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby suggs on Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:48 am

AndyDufresne wrote:We hear you, we do. We've got some ideas to help craft a better system that serves your wants and our needs. We want to keep everyone happy, so we're focusing extra effort on it all.


--Andy


Wel, a system that serves OUR needs in any way would be good. Lets be clear about this, the new sstem is only good for the Mods.
I appreciate that this MIGHT be better for the site as a whole. But lets not pretend this new system is in any way good for the consumer. It was a downgrade, pure and simple.
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby jiminski on Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:58 am

suggs wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:We hear you, we do. We've got some ideas to help craft a better system that serves your wants and our needs. We want to keep everyone happy, so we're focusing extra effort on it all.


--Andy


Wel, a system that serves OUR needs in any way would be good. Lets be clear about this, the new sstem is only good for the Mods.
I appreciate that this MIGHT be better for the site as a whole. But lets not pretend this new system is in any way good for the consumer. It was a downgrade, pure and simple.



I think that this is a fair point!
And as grateful as i am for this fantastic site and all it's: inclusive, laissez faire Forums; extraordinary map making and coding; never-ending approachability.. as grateful as i am for that, the very inclusiveness of the atmosphere which Lack has so beautifully fostered has lead us to feel part of the site! It has lead us to be willing to fight for how we want it to be. .. and yes i am not grateful for the new Star rating .. i will not even use it in its present form. (sorry.. i really am)

It may be akin to a man fighting to keep his best mate with a girl because he dared to grow to like her! But this is your legacy and also your cross to bear Lack!
You made me open-up to your site, Mr Lack .. don't break my heart! ;)
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby homes32 on Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:52 am

Hound wrote:Based on the ratings I'm seeing, the average seems to be around 4.6 or 4.7 and that's mostly because we have two camps, those that rate 5 unless you do something asinine and those that use 3 unless you deviate either good or bad.


this is exactly what I am seeing.
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby quackaddict on Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:49 am

homes32 wrote:
Hound wrote:Based on the ratings I'm seeing, the average seems to be around 4.6 or 4.7 and that's mostly because we have two camps, those that rate 5 unless you do something asinine and those that use 3 unless you deviate either good or bad.


this is exactly what I am seeing.


So we have a large number of people who are not rating per the directions. It says right in your rating window that 3 is supposed to be average. 4 is above average, 2 is below average.

I have been rating 3's across the board unless something is noteworthy.

Attendance is the only one that I feel is not subjective. I have been giving 2 is they miss 2 turns during the game, a 1 if they are booted. For folks who are noticeably prompt in taking their turn I have been giving the 4 and 5s.
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby bayou on Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:50 am

suggs wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:We hear you, we do. We've got some ideas to help craft a better system that serves your wants and our needs. We want to keep everyone happy, so we're focusing extra effort on it all.


--Andy


Wel, a system that serves OUR needs in any way would be good. Lets be clear about this, the new sstem is only good for the Mods.
I appreciate that this MIGHT be better for the site as a whole. But lets not pretend this new system is in any way good for the consumer. It was a downgrade, pure and simple.


BRAVO!
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