[09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby Napo on Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:10 am

I also agree that the new rating system has som errors.

We played a game and there was 1 guy constantly whining etc. I told him he should act normal and don't be aggressive to annyone that attacks him. I won the game and gave him 5 stars for both fair play and attendence, and a 2 for Attitude. Now he though I'd rate him low so he just gave me 1 star on all 3. Which is totally unfair as I played fair, I wasn't rude (maybe a litlle to him in his eyes, but others didn't think that) and, I played every time within the hour (except when I was asleep).

So therefore I suggest the following:

If you have 20 ratings, leave the 3-5 (other number can be inserted) lowest ratings out for your average. Then atleast people can see you have a good average and it was just 1 or more people that just gave stupid scores.
(I suggest that 10-20% lowest are ignored for the average)
And there also should be some info about how stars should be given. 5 stars for a normal player that logs in 2x/day and plays fair, and isn't rude/aggressive. And then just deduct stars for every thing he does wrong. If he becomes mad and starts insulting people, then just give 1 for attitude.


EDIT: Forgot to mention 1 thing: it's too easy to rate someone bad. So another possibility is that you're obligated to post a reason if you give a low score.
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby pieterpopken on Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:13 am

I personaly see nothing in medals systems the communist do it stalin did hitler did
better put the faces on the wall or hang them i dont believe in pyramids systems eather
i like to have some fun and fun chat and like tactics to make the nbrain more clever how we not kill each other in future that should be more the goal from a game not a fascistic looking like idiots game iff you go this way this club should burn
i am not using a synonym for my name you can have my adress annd phone number
you can knok on my door and shoot me about this question
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lackattack wrote:Ratings

After a lot of brainstorming and community consultation, we've developed a ratings system that takes the best of feedback (i.e. it encourages good behaviour and discourages bad behaviour) and avoids the problems with feedback (i.e. it required full-time staff to settle disputes between pissed off members - which was often a mission impossible). It's called ratings and is fully explained in the Ratings section of the Instructions.

Here are the differences between ratings and feedback:

  • Instead of writing comments you rate the member from 1 to 5 stars on four attributes of game behaviour.
  • Next to your username will appear a star followed by your average overall rating.
  • As with the current feedback system, you will only be allowed to rate someone after finishing a game with them, before the game is archived. However, ratings are not tied to any particular game, so you can update an older rating for someone as your opinion changes over time (provided you complete more games with the member in question).
  • Ratings cannot be altered once the game is archived, but they can still be withdrawn.
  • To prevent tit-for-tat ratings, new or changed ratings will be hidden until the game is archived because at that point it is too late for the recipient to retaliate.
  • "Leave Ratings for:" links now show stars next to the username, grey indicating you still have to rate the player, yellow indicating you already have.
  • Ratings are based on members' opinions and Conquer Club staff will NOT review, judge, edit or delete individual ratings.

What happens to old feedback? Since there is no way to fairly translate feedback into ratings, everyone will start off with a blank rating score. Until the ratings system has matured we'll provide a link to view the old feedback on each member's profile. We'll figure out how to drop feedback for good at a later date, in consultation with the community.

Oh, and please be a good sport and earn yourself a decent rating. In the future we will release a tool for members to block those with low ratings from joining their games!

The Wall

Since you can no longer use feedback to leave cute comments for your Conquer Club buddies, we developed a guestbook-type tool for socializing with other players, inspired by Facebook's Wall. Everyone has their own wall on their profile, and anyone can post comments to it! Sounds like fun, eh?

You have complete control over your own wall! If you don't like a comment posted on your wall (or that you posted on someone else's) you can just delete it. You can also block someone from commenting on your wall by making them a foe. Like with private messages, you'll get email notifications for new wall comments (unless turned off from Control Panel -> Board Preferences -> Edit wall settings).

Webmasters: Interested in having a wall on your forum? I've published the code as an open-source phpBB MOD.

Duplicate Start A Game Thingy

Did you know that 48% of public games on the Join A Game pages are duplicates - meaning there are already waiting games with identical settings? Now when you try to start a new public game and there is already an identical public game out there, you'll be presented a listing of duplicates and given an opportunity to join one instead. Hopefully this will trim down the pages of waiting games and make games fill up quicker. You can still start your own game if you insist.

Rule #2 Change

To promote fairness and counter-negotiation, we have changed Rule #2 to encompass all forms of secret diplomacy. That's right, it all has to be done in game chat now. This will require some of you to change the way you do things, but it is for the better of the club. Please take a moment to review Rule #2: No secret diplomacy on the Rules page.

Friend & Foe Notes

As promised in the last update, we've modified Friends & Foes to allow notes. You can attach a note when you add a friend or foe either via the member's profile or via the Control Panel. We also loaded up any notes you had on the old Ignore List to your foes list.

Medals

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It's not all about score and rank now that we've got 9 game achievement medals for you to collect. Actually, each one is available in Bronze, Silver and Gold so make that 27 medals! Being awarded a medal will earn you the right to display it proudly on your profile and by your forum posts. Check out the medals page to see what you can win. Those of you who already qualify for any game achievement medals will get them after your next win.

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Look out as well for our line of contributions medals to be awarded to those who've helped make this website a better place.

You can expect more medals to come out in future updates...
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby pieterpopken on Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:19 am

if you really want rating losers from a game should not rate at all only winners should rate about gameplay from the others attitude you have always bad losers not grown ups who not understands what is life about then i talk abpout xx% of whats crawling on earth
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby cre8tiff on Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:54 am

Someone suggested a week ago that the Amazon model of feedback: use averaged stars, but display the comments for each assessment would be a good one. I still think that by marrying the current functionality with the ability to leave and respond to feedback is a solid one.

When you rate a person, you would be able to leave feedback. Likewise, when the feedback shows up, the receiver would be able to leave a response. Even is someone was being an asshat and just leaving all ones without leaving comments, the receiver of this bad score would get a chance to respond. Likewise someone who uses the "3 is average" method of rating could leave a message to that effect. Thus someone who may seem to have a "bad" rating from this kind of system would actually be shown to be merely average by reviewing the feedback.

I don't see why this sort of system will need moderation or heavy coding to implement.

BONUS SUGGESTION: I would also like to limit games to a certain raking or higher, say Lieutenant and higher on in my games. ;-)
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby jiminski on Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:09 am

cre8tiff wrote:Someone suggested a week ago that the Amazon model of feedback: use averaged stars, but display the comments for each assessment would be a good one. I still think that by marrying the current functionality with the ability to leave and respond to feedback is a solid one.

When you rate a person, you would be able to leave feedback. Likewise, when the feedback shows up, the receiver would be able to leave a response. Even is someone was being an asshat and just leaving all ones without leaving comments, the receiver of this bad score would get a chance to respond. Likewise someone who uses the "3 is average" method of rating could leave a message to that effect. Thus someone who may seem to have a "bad" rating from this kind of system would actually be shown to be merely average by reviewing the feedback.

I don't see why this sort of system will need moderation or heavy coding to implement.

BONUS SUGGESTION: I would also like to limit games to a certain raking or higher, say Lieutenant and higher on in my games. ;-)


i 'think' the Feedback Comment - Community Moderation thread in the General Discussion Forum is similar.
maybe you could come to lend a hand, try to thrash out the idea and look for holes?
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby suggs on Mon Jun 23, 2008 6:48 am

AndyDufresne wrote:We hear you, we do. We've got some ideas to help craft a better system that serves your wants and our needs. We want to keep everyone happy, so we're focusing extra effort on it all.


--Andy


Wel, a system that serves OUR needs in any way would be good. Lets be clear about this, the new sstem is only good for the Mods.
I appreciate that this MIGHT be better for the site as a whole. But lets not pretend this new system is in any way good for the consumer. It was a downgrade, pure and simple.
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby jiminski on Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:58 am

suggs wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:We hear you, we do. We've got some ideas to help craft a better system that serves your wants and our needs. We want to keep everyone happy, so we're focusing extra effort on it all.


--Andy


Wel, a system that serves OUR needs in any way would be good. Lets be clear about this, the new sstem is only good for the Mods.
I appreciate that this MIGHT be better for the site as a whole. But lets not pretend this new system is in any way good for the consumer. It was a downgrade, pure and simple.



I think that this is a fair point!
And as grateful as i am for this fantastic site and all it's: inclusive, laissez faire Forums; extraordinary map making and coding; never-ending approachability.. as grateful as i am for that, the very inclusiveness of the atmosphere which Lack has so beautifully fostered has lead us to feel part of the site! It has lead us to be willing to fight for how we want it to be. .. and yes i am not grateful for the new Star rating .. i will not even use it in its present form. (sorry.. i really am)

It may be akin to a man fighting to keep his best mate with a girl because he dared to grow to like her! But this is your legacy and also your cross to bear Lack!
You made me open-up to your site, Mr Lack .. don't break my heart! ;)
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby homes32 on Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:52 am

Hound wrote:Based on the ratings I'm seeing, the average seems to be around 4.6 or 4.7 and that's mostly because we have two camps, those that rate 5 unless you do something asinine and those that use 3 unless you deviate either good or bad.


this is exactly what I am seeing.
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby quackaddict on Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:49 am

homes32 wrote:
Hound wrote:Based on the ratings I'm seeing, the average seems to be around 4.6 or 4.7 and that's mostly because we have two camps, those that rate 5 unless you do something asinine and those that use 3 unless you deviate either good or bad.


this is exactly what I am seeing.


So we have a large number of people who are not rating per the directions. It says right in your rating window that 3 is supposed to be average. 4 is above average, 2 is below average.

I have been rating 3's across the board unless something is noteworthy.

Attendance is the only one that I feel is not subjective. I have been giving 2 is they miss 2 turns during the game, a 1 if they are booted. For folks who are noticeably prompt in taking their turn I have been giving the 4 and 5s.
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby bayou on Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:50 am

suggs wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:We hear you, we do. We've got some ideas to help craft a better system that serves your wants and our needs. We want to keep everyone happy, so we're focusing extra effort on it all.


--Andy


Wel, a system that serves OUR needs in any way would be good. Lets be clear about this, the new sstem is only good for the Mods.
I appreciate that this MIGHT be better for the site as a whole. But lets not pretend this new system is in any way good for the consumer. It was a downgrade, pure and simple.


BRAVO!
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby mightyredarmy on Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:31 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:We hear you, we do. We've got some ideas to help craft a better system that serves your wants and our needs. We want to keep everyone happy, so we're focusing extra effort on it all.


--Andy


How about getting these ideas out in the open for community discussion now, then everyone can see where we might be going next.
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby PIE-Ed on Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:32 am

Napo wrote:So therefore I suggest the following:

If you have 20 ratings, leave the 3-5 (other number can be inserted) lowest ratings out for your average. Then atleast people can see you have a good average and it was just 1 or more people that just gave stupid scores.
(I suggest that 10-20% lowest are ignored for the average).


I like this idea, make it like the ice skating judging, where the best and worst scores are removed, and you get a better indication of the average scores

But the new ratings system is ridiculous, I play a game, and he misses three turns and loses, and then he gives me three 1star ratings, its beyond a joke
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby bayou on Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:25 am

Hi bayou,

I'm sorry to hear that you feel you've received an unfair rating. Ratings are based on our member’s opinions and therefore we do not want to second guess them. Please try contacting the user in question directly to discuss the matter. Perhaps you can convince him/her to withdraw it. Rest assured that any unfair ratings will be averaged out by all the fair ones over time.

Regards,
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And now we have a nice generic answer to a complaint. I guess I'm not high enough in rank to get more. My money is the same, however. I like to play the game for fun and it is rapidly losing its appeal.
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby lt_oddball on Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:59 am

it sucks !

(oh my..this means my attitude drops from 5 to 1 multiplied by all attending other players involved.. without compensation by players from good games who are too lazy to give positive ratings).

well , if it's like that , then I step it up a bit : IT SUCKS REALLY BAD !!
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby suggs on Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:35 pm

I'm just thinking aloud here, so apologies if this a bit confused.
But are the Mods monitoring the new system, how much it is used etc
I am dishing out ratings pretty much for the hell of it.
But I just hope the MOds don;t come back in a few weeks time, and say "wow, look how many ratings have been left for people, its a success" when in reality its just the only form of "feedback" available.

Should we boycott leaving ratings?
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby Ffraid on Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:30 pm

suggs wrote:... are the Mods monitoring the new system, how much it is used etc
I am dishing out ratings pretty much for the hell of it.
But I just hope the MOds don;t come back in a few weeks time, and say "wow, look how many ratings have been left for people, its a success" when in reality its just the only form of "feedback" available.

Should we boycott leaving ratings?

Well, I haven't left any.

At first because I wasn't sure how it was going to shake out (5s vs. 3s). My natural tendancy is to think of a 3 as average but I kind of figured that most people would tend toward 5 (an assumption which seems to have been born out) and I didn't want to bring another player's average down when I had no problem with them whatsoever.

Now, I just think it is too subjective:

Attendance: Yes, I think a 3 is average but I also believe that attendance means just that, whether you show up for your turns. 5 minutes or 23 hours, if you don't miss a turn, you have perfect attendance. Some people seem to be using it to rate timeliness. I got a 4 in a game the other day when I started most of my turns within 5-6 mins. after the other guy had finished (I think one took 9-10 mins.).

Attitude: Frankly, I'm here to play. I really don't care if the person that I'm playing never says a word. That's not to say that I haven't enjoyed some of the chats that I have had with other players. I have enjoyed some of them very much, but if the other guy or gal doesn't say anything, I certainly don't think that's indicative of a bad attitude. Maybe they're just not very outgoing, maybe their English isn't all that good, maybe they are a poor typist (like myself :) ). Now, I have been fortunate enough never to have played anyone who was abusive or rude in chat, and I know that that happens and would certainly deserve a less than average rating, but other than that, if I give someone a 3 when they don't say anything, it's going to bring their average down and I don't want to do that when I had an enjoyable game just playing.

Fair Play: I play mostly 1v1 games. How in the heck are you supposed to judge a person's fair play? Even in multi player games, unless someone does something extraordinarily bad (or good), again, a 3 would bring them down when they were a perfectly fine player.

And that doesn't even address the issue, that has been raised in this thread, of some sore loser or just general, all around ass leaving all 1s just for grins, without the need for any justification at all, or any provision for response.

I figure as long as my rating is somewhere between a 3 and a 5 most people aren't going to avoid playing me, but I am boycotting leaving ratings. Guess I won't be getting that Ratings Achievement medal. ;)
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby KidWhisky on Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:21 am

Man I am really starting to dislike this new rating system. I get a rating of 3 for fair play in a game that as far as I can tell I played fair. Only with this system I don't know why this guy feels I only deserved 3 fair play stars. I liked it far better when we got to write and explain why we left the feedback we did. At least that way I knew why I was getting the negative and Had the chance to explain why I did what I did.
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby sport.nut on Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:08 am

I'm not a fan of the new system. It really is pointless IMHO. I like the old comments, then you could read up on someone. You get a pretty good idea of a player after they have a few comments. Do they only show up once a day. Do they chat. Are they obnoxious in the chat. Is the person a good team player. That is meaningful feed back IMHO.
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby Hrvat on Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:16 am

I said this would happen, (from day 1 new "rating system" started), and was told to stop whining... :roll:
I'll never pay for another Premium on ConquerClub.
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby Lilianna on Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:11 am

So, just for clarification, what do each of the categories mean? I had somebody say that he gave me a 1/5 for attendance because I didn't chat in the game, but I thought attendance was whether or not I missed any turns.
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby bayou on Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:27 am

suggs wrote:I'm just thinking aloud here, so apologies if this a bit confused.
But are the Mods monitoring the new system, how much it is used etc
I am dishing out ratings pretty much for the hell of it.
But I just hope the MOds don;t come back in a few weeks time, and say "wow, look how many ratings have been left for people, its a success" when in reality its just the only form of "feedback" available.

Should we boycott leaving ratings?


There is a medal for leaving ratings so I suppose that is supposed to be an "incentive".
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby jiminski on Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:36 pm

suggs wrote:I'm just thinking aloud here, so apologies if this a bit confused.
But are the Mods monitoring the new system, how much it is used etc
I am dishing out ratings pretty much for the hell of it.
But I just hope the MOds don;t come back in a few weeks time, and say "wow, look how many ratings have been left for people, its a success" when in reality its just the only form of "feedback" available.

Should we boycott leaving ratings?


Boycotted it long ago brother Sugg.
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby lackattack on Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:41 pm

Stop the boycotts! Stop the ranting! Stop accusing us of not listening!

Instead rate fairly and according to the instructions and participate in the Ratings Reloaded - Community Consultation!

Thank you :P
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby Frop on Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:36 pm

lackattack wrote:rate fairly and according to the instructions

Jim, RTFM! :D
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Re: [09-Jun-2008] Ratings & Medals

Postby jiminski on Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:54 pm

Frop wrote:
lackattack wrote:rate fairly and according to the instructions

......RTFM! :D
:?:
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