[26-Jul-2008] Ratings Reloaded

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Re: [26-Jul-2008] Ratings Reloaded

Postby Raf_THFC on Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:30 pm

Good stuff - thanks guys.
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Re: [26-Jul-2008] Ratings Reloaded

Postby maique on Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:47 pm

maique, there was an intentional move away from "bad, neutral, good" for various reasons. There has been some discussion in the community consultation of moving back towards that, so head on over there and see what's been said and add your voice!


Thanks for the info Twill, but i had already read the entirety of the latest community consultation and had already added my comment, or rather, testament to the discussion. But mine was the last one before the most recent update, so I thought I might as well make a shorter and more to the point comment here as it would more likely be read.

1 to 5 ratings are too nuanced to get everyone on the same note, i think. And CC should be about the game more than the nuances of how one rates or gets rated.
It should be intuitive, not based on a ruleset that's unenforceable, unenforced and not followed (even if were not followed by "only" 25% of raters, it would still make the rating guidelines sort of invalid or, better put, irrelevant).
So pardon me for insisting on a 3 point scale, whatever you want to call each individual step. (And insist I must that "Average" will put people off, whilst "neutral" was just that)

There are people suggesting that everyone in a game should rate for a person to be rated, or something to that effect.. This doesn't make too much sense to me. I understand them wanting to weed out the more irrational ratings, but just use the feedback response. I really don't think rating should be compulsory. Quite the contrary, I'd rather someone not say anything rather than rate for no reason...

...or coz they want a stupid medal. Have I said I find the Ratings Medal absolutely ridiculous and counter productive? Even if your only intention were to get people to rate so you could have more test cases to improve the rating framework, just asking would be fine. The medal doesn't necessarily create a critical mass of valid ratings).
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Re: [26-Jul-2008] Ratings Reloaded

Postby Rivertrance on Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:13 pm

thanks for the upgrade. It was bothersome when there were so many deadbeats in the speed games!

THUMBS UP!
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Re: [26-Jul-2008] Ratings Reloaded

Postby Roveriver on Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:33 pm

I'm still relatively new to this. What is everyone's definition of a "deadbeat?" The attendance % of turns taken on time is great and seems to eliminate the need for a 1-5 star rating for attendance.
As for deadbeats, if there's the expectation for players to take their turn every 3 hours, or whatever the expectation is, then don't enter a game that has 24 hour time limit for a turn. I've never played in a speed game, and unless I have zero responsibilities in real life [I'm not suggesting speed game players DON'T have responsibilities :) ] I will continue to shy away from them.
So, is a "deadbeat" someone who waits until the "eleventh hour" to make every single move?

BTW, when the budget affords, I'll be upgrading to premium as this is an awesome site
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Re: [26-Jul-2008] Ratings Reloaded

Postby whitestazn88 on Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:02 pm

no, a deadbeat is someone who doesn't show up for turns at all...

i suppose you could think of it as you're beating the dead, because the dead aren't doing anything anyhow
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Re: [26-Jul-2008] Ratings Reloaded

Postby dogwood8 on Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:38 pm

This looks like a step in the right direction, but I don't think I like seeing the "Attendance" value disappear. I recently played a game with a player who waited until the 23rd (and 1/2) hour on each of his turns. The fact that he showed up consistantly is going to boost his attendance %, but his prior rating was quite low because he (or she?) was ranked low in that category.

Any chance we could have BOTH the meter and the attendance category?

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Re: [26-Jul-2008] Ratings Reloaded

Postby hulmey on Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:28 pm

The Attendance meter isnt working well!!!

Username: DomQuebec Rank: Colonel Score: 2657 Games: 2327 completed, 1147 (49%) won | Find all games with DomQuebec Attendance: 98% of turns taken

He is a serial deadbeater. If he is losing he deabeats.HOw could he possibly have 98%??
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Re: [26-Jul-2008] Ratings Reloaded

Postby PepperJack on Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:38 pm

Instead of the rating wouldn't it more useful to have an average time to take start turns included with percentage of turns taken? It would have to have casual and speed games separated but it offers more utility than just the percentage on it own.
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Going on deployment, be back someday.

Sorry for deadbeating out of games.
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Re: [26-Jul-2008] Ratings Reloaded

Postby tender on Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:17 am

ram1961 wrote:Good changes. Thanks for the better system of rating other players.

Any reason why the attendance can't be at the top of the ratings page instead of buried in the profile? They are really both integral parts of the overall conduct of an individual player as seen by the other players. Having associated data on two different screens is a bit awkward to use.


Here here.
I like this update better than the last, that's for sure.
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Re: [26-Jul-2008] Ratings Reloaded

Postby ahunda on Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:17 am

I liked the old feedback system better than the ratings. It was telling me more about the respective player, and it was often fun to read. But I don´t care enough to really get involved in all the discussions & threads about the issue.

I have one complaint though: Since positive ratings for Team-Play were obviously automatically translated into "Good Teammate" tags, I have now several of those tags from people, that I never was on a team with. I didn´t understand, why those people were allowed to give me a Team-Play Rating anyway. It´s kind of stupid ...
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Re: [26-Jul-2008] Ratings Reloaded

Postby DarkMalkin on Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:36 am

The new improved system is great. Twill said something about more to come, after enough tags... curious about that.

Now, browsing a little through my recently finished games, I realised almost no player has the Gameplay ratings... :shock: (tags were obvious)... kinda a lot of work of adding the gameplay... :P were I remember what happened...

Anyway, this system is much better and the tags offer a possibility to describe what the game "felt" like. Being able to answer to ratings is also great, since one of the things that really buged me on my 3rd or 4th game, here on CC, was a 3-3-3 rating for no good reason. Alright, maybe the fairplay and other one are opened for discussion, but as for attendance, I took my turns in less then 4 hours, as opposed to players who took 20+ hours and received from that player a 5 star rate for attendance. I received a 3-3-3 because I was a newbie. That's dumb. And all the discussion about the ratings was fairly pointless, as it was obvious (and someone said this... somewhere) that a 5-5-5 was positive, 3-3-3 neutral and 1-1-1 negative. Now that you can answer to a rating, you can point out to the unjustified ones.

Great job! :)

Edit: When I say the discussions were fairly pointless, I' reffering to how the ratings were used by most and how those discussions couldn't change that.
Last edited by DarkMalkin on Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [26-Jul-2008] Ratings Reloaded

Postby fishydance on Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:39 am

ahunda wrote:I have one complaint though: Since positive ratings for Team-Play were obviously automatically translated into "Good Teammate" tags, I have now several of those tags from people, that I never was on a team with. I didn´t understand, why those people were allowed to give me a Team-Play Rating anyway. It´s kind of stupid ...


I concur. I have a bad team play rating from someone who was not on my team. I played one game against him and beat him. How is that team play rating relevant?

Another concern I have is the speed in casual games. I sometimes play with persons who are on the other side of the world. Often they are sleeping when I play, and I am sleeping when they play. It seems unfair to expect quick turnaround in such a situation, and giving (or getting) a low rating doesn't seem right.
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Re: [26-Jul-2008] Ratings Reloaded

Postby yeti_c on Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:04 am

Great stuff Lack...

Although - I'm wondering where the Tag Clouds are?!

Are they coming in the next update?!

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Re: [26-Jul-2008] Ratings Reloaded

Postby rgbubba on Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:45 am

I agree, this rating system is what we needed. Thanks!
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Re: [26-Jul-2008] Ratings Reloaded

Postby Androidz on Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:22 pm

Pretty good stuff but regiveing every1 gameplay star is dumb. :/
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Re: [26-Jul-2008] Ratings Reloaded

Postby retrocrush on Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:02 pm

I just rated my opponent quick, slow, talkative, and silent. Thanks for the helpful tag upgrades.
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Re: [26-Jul-2008] Ratings Reloaded

Postby Optimus Prime on Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:07 pm

retrocrush wrote:I just rated my opponent quick, slow, talkative, and silent. Thanks for the helpful tag upgrades.

Seriously? You complain about the system and then go straight for abusing it? You aren't proving a point, you do realize that, right? All you are doing is making yourself look immature. If you don't like the tags, don't use them. If you don't like the ratings, don't use them. It really is that simple. Nobody is forcing you to do anything on this site you don't want to. :roll:
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Re: [26-Jul-2008] Ratings Reloaded

Postby retrocrush on Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:18 pm

Optimus Prime wrote:
retrocrush wrote:I just rated my opponent quick, slow, talkative, and silent. Thanks for the helpful tag upgrades.

Seriously? You complain about the system and then go straight for abusing it? You aren't proving a point, you do realize that, right? All you are doing is making yourself look immature. If you don't like the tags, don't use them. If you don't like the ratings, don't use them. It really is that simple. Nobody is forcing you to do anything on this site you don't want to. :roll:


I just think it's funny as hell that it allows you to put in contradicting tags. Lighten up. It's crazy that we're adding all of these options to make the feedback more detailed, when you could just flip the switch back to the old feedback system and have it all.
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Re: [26-Jul-2008] Ratings Reloaded

Postby pissedoffsol on Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:26 pm

@attendence

is this calculated going backwards too?

I KNOW i've deadbeated a few speed games and have missed some turns....

yet i show
Attendance:
100% of turns taken
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Re: [26-Jul-2008] Ratings Reloaded

Postby Night Strike on Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:30 pm

pissedoffsol wrote:@attendence

is this calculated going backwards too?

I KNOW i've deadbeated a few speed games and have missed some turns....

yet i show
Attendance:
100% of turns taken



You've taken enough turns to be 99.5%, which would round up to 100%.
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Re: [26-Jul-2008] Ratings Reloaded

Postby hulmey on Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:23 am

Night Strike wrote:
pissedoffsol wrote:@attendence

is this calculated going backwards too?

I KNOW i've deadbeated a few speed games and have missed some turns....

yet i show
Attendance:
100% of turns taken



You've taken enough turns to be 99.5%, which would round up to 100%.

i doubt its correct at all. DomQuebec deadbeats all his gameswhen he is losing and has 98% which must be incorrect!
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Re: [26-Jul-2008] Ratings Reloaded

Postby hulmey on Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:25 am

Optimus Prime wrote:
retrocrush wrote:I just rated my opponent quick, slow, talkative, and silent. Thanks for the helpful tag upgrades.

Seriously? You complain about the system and then go straight for abusing it? You aren't proving a point, you do realize that, right? All you are doing is making yourself look immature. If you don't like the tags, don't use them. If you don't like the ratings, don't use them. It really is that simple. Nobody is forcing you to do anything on this site you don't want to. :roll:


You always seem to defend CC. Bit of sheep? We had a perfectly fine feedback system beore that neeeded a few tweaks here and there to perfect. This new system has been forced apon us!! Its like your mum giving you some sweets and then taking them away. So for godsakes like people complain if they want to without being so bloody annoying!
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Re: [26-Jul-2008] Ratings Reloaded

Postby Night Strike on Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:35 am

hulmey wrote:i doubt its correct at all. DomQuebec deadbeats all his gameswhen he is losing and has 98% which must be incorrect!


hulmey, do the math. Even if he does skip turns while losing, that is a max of 3 turns for a game that is at least more than 5 turns along. In some games, only 1 or no turns are missed. Playing over 2300 games and winning 50% of them means it's going to take a WHOLE lot of missed turns to actually change the stat by 1%. With that many games with many rounds in each game, being at only 98% IS a lot of missed turns.

Also, OP can defend CC if he wants just how you choose to attack it all the time. He was pointing out how the player purposefully used the tags in a way that they were not meant to be used. And if you're going to complain about the new system that "has been forced upon us", why have you left 122 ratings? :roll:
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Re: [26-Jul-2008] Ratings Reloaded

Postby Ditocoaf on Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:44 am

How was your experience with this player (in category X)?

Unhappy
Satisfied
Impressed

Rating your experience, rather than the other player per se. Solves a lot of issues, quickly.
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Re: [26-Jul-2008] Ratings Reloaded

Postby hulmey on Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:48 am

Night Strike wrote:
hulmey wrote:i doubt its correct at all. DomQuebec deadbeats all his gameswhen he is losing and has 98% which must be incorrect!


hulmey, do the math. Even if he does skip turns while losing, that is a max of 3 turns for a game that is at least more than 5 turns along. In some games, only 1 or no turns are missed. Playing over 2300 games and winning 50% of them means it's going to take a WHOLE lot of missed turns to actually change the stat by 1%. With that many games with many rounds in each game, being at only 98% IS a lot of missed turns.

Also, OP can defend CC if he wants just how you choose to attack it all the time. He was pointing out how the player purposefully used the tags in a way that they were not meant to be used. And if you're going to complain about the new system that "has been forced upon us", why have you left 122 ratings? :roll:


im going for my medal....I also got 98% attendance and i can asure that theres something very wrong. The new system aint working

ps...tags can be used how the player seees fit. And yes i will attack CC coz its going downhill. Its not what it used to be. But i try not to attack the individual coz thats bullying.
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