New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby porkenbeans on Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:17 pm

Timminz wrote:
porkenbeans wrote: And personally, I do NOT give a rats ass, how many Farmers and cheaters I piss off. 8-)

And what of the non-cheating, non-farming players you've been pissing?
Like who ?
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby lancehoch on Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:01 am

porkenbeans wrote:Like who ?

Like Timminz, like owenshooter, like most of the other people in this thread who disagree with you.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby porkenbeans on Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:16 am

lancehoch wrote:
porkenbeans wrote:Like who ?

Like Timminz, like owenshooter, like most of the other people in this thread who disagree with you.
For the record- There are more people posting on my side of this topic than the other. In any case, this is not about who has the most support. This is all about discussing the topic at hand. Lacks New Years Resolution, and what it means. This Thread dose not have a poll. And it is not your job to take some haphazard one.

:idea: I think that a poll might be a good idea :idea:

I also think that it should be sent out to all CC members as an official CC poll. I think it is something like less than 10% of members have ever visited the forum. And something like, less than 1% are posters. Most people come here for the game, and not the chit-chat. It is my belief that not too many of them are in the farmer crowd. I would bet my life that this poll would show the main reason for dropping membership. I know this to be true because I have personally talked to more players than post in the forum. The overwhelming majority of players come down on my side. They are saying three things louder than anything else. And that is,

1.) They are sick and tired of all the cheating going on. They spend a lot of time logged on to CC trying to earn those ranks and badges. To be cheated by the Multies is an affront to to all their time and effort.

2.) They feel the exact same way about the Newbie Farmers.

3.) They miss their favorite map, but still enjoy the game here at CC. A lot of people that I have spoken with, say, it was the last straw that broke the camels back, and they just quit coming to play here.

........................................................................... :arrow: :(
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby Timminz on Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:44 am

porkenbeans wrote:And personally, I do NOT give a rats ass, how many Farmers and cheaters I piss off. 8-)


It's statements like this, that people read, and think you're saying, "If you don't agree with everything I say, or do in these forums, you're a farmer and/or a cheat." There are a lot of us who agree with the ideas that you have, but disagree entirely with your methods.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby Jeff Hardy on Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:05 am

prokenbeans, if you see someone cheat or newb-farm then go and report them in C&A but please stop going on about it in other forums
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby porkenbeans on Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:34 pm

Timminz wrote:
porkenbeans wrote:And personally, I do NOT give a rats ass, how many Farmers and cheaters I piss off. 8-)


It's statements like this, that people read, and think you're saying, "If you don't agree with everything I say, or do in these forums, you're a farmer and/or a cheat." There are a lot of us who agree with the ideas that you have, but disagree entirely with your methods.
Just read MY words. I try to be as clear and precise as I can be. You need not try to reinterpret what my meaning is. Nowhere do I even come close to saying that if you don't agree with me your a farmer or cheater. What you may not understand is, I have been singled out by those groups because I have spoke out against their little monopoly. They outnumber the CC majority, in this clubhouse of theirs, we call the forum. I came to this forum for one purpose. And that is to go after them. I have been pretty scarred up as a result. So please understand if I come off a bit strong. I am severely outnumbered by a very determined group of knuckleheads. My fists are kept swinging constantly.

I want to apologize if I have inadvertently hit the wrong person in this skirmish. That said, It is time to fire my canon again.

It occurred to me that there may be some multi-cheater scumbags hiding in plain site among these threads. All the Farmers are here taking shots at me, so where are the cheaters that I have gone to war with ? It would make since that they would be in this fight. I cant say who they are. And I am not accusing anyone directly, I am just wondering out loud.

Do I think that everyone that does not agree with me, are cheaters ? "NO".
Do cheaters agree with me ? "NO".

If you do agree with my positions on these subjects, But think that I go about it the wrong way, Please forgive me. Sometimes it is hard to tell friend from foe in this little war. You know its kind of funny, I came to CC to play a war game called RISK, but find myself in a much different war game than I had intended. I look forward to the time, when I can go back to the Risk games, and leave this forum to those of you that like the chit-chat.

........................................................Not that theres' anything wrong with that. hehehe. :D
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby lancehoch on Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:46 pm

poerkenbeans, you have derailed this topic and other topics to try and push forward your views. If you believe that someone is farming or cheating make a report in C&A. If you would like to talk about this situation in private, please PM me.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby Kotaro on Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:40 pm

porkenbeans, if you're so intent on this rule, take it to the owner of the site. The rest of us are pretty annoyed by your posts, and it would be much more effective to rant at the person who can actually make the ruling, and not the users who simply frequent this site.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby porkenbeans on Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:26 pm

lancehoch wrote:poerkenbeans, you have derailed this topic and other topics to try and push forward your views. If you believe that someone is farming or cheating make a report in C&A. If you would like to talk about this situation in private, please PM me.
I have pmd you. You have yet to respond after a week.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby King_Herpes on Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:20 pm

porkenbeans wrote:I have pmd you. You have yet to respond after a week.


That's because you are creepy and the title of the p.m. most likely read something like, <3 Let's Talk About Cheating and Farming Forever <3. You should try to be a bit less clingy.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby prismsaber on Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:26 pm

King_Herpes wrote:
porkenbeans wrote:I have pmd you. You have yet to respond after a week.


That's because you are creepy and the title of the p.m. most likely read something like, <3 Let's Talk About Cheating and Farming Forever <3. You should try to be a bit less clingy.


Ahh that was actually a bit funny :)
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby FarangDemon on Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:35 pm

lancehoch wrote:poerkenbeans, you have derailed this topic and other topics to try and push forward your views. If you believe that someone is farming or cheating make a report in C&A. If you would like to talk about this situation in private, please PM me.


I thought the topic was about Lack's New Year's message and how you have read all his arguments against farmers using harvesting techniques against opponents that have a high tendency to deadbeat and don't know how to play the game, but because he only mentions "Newbie Farming" you are deciding to ignore that many of the arguments obviously also apply to cadet and cook farming.

1) they don't know what they are doing in teams or difficult map settings
2) they have a high tendency to deadbeat
3) the points gained by harvesting them super-inflates the scoreboard, stifling competition at the higher levels

Yes, there is a type of farming going on involving farming of cadets and cooks. High ranked players systematically target these players for team games on difficult maps because these players are so bad that even though the farmers may risk losing 60-100 points to a team of cooks, it does not happen often enough for them to actually net a loss. This is because the farmers and cadets don't know what they are doing and/or deadbeat. Do the math, why else do farmers do this? Because it is a tried and true harvesting technique.

All threads I've contributed to were trolled or flamed by entrenched pro-farming gamers and then shut down by mods. I was told to stop discussing the farming problem because farming is not a problem anymore. I was told to make an accusation if anyone was in violation of the rules.

All discussion stifled, I decided to give the admins in the Cheating and Abuse forum the opportunity to set a precedent against abuse of the game by using well known harvesting techniques on cadets and cooks. I thought that if they wanted to solve the problems spelled out by Lack, they could at least give the harvesters in question a warning so that the community knows that this obvious harvesting technique is no longer acceptable.

Public Game Targeting Cooks and Cadets in Quads

Game 3951426 3 cooks, 1 cadet

Private Games Targeting Cooks and Cadets in Quad Games

Game 3828147 Waterloo - 2 cooks, 2 cadets
Game 3828146 ConquerMan - 2 cooks, 2 cadets
Game 3828145 World 2.1 - 1 cook, 2 cadets, 1 corporal

These guys sent pms or communicated some other way to invite predominantly cooks and cadets into their games for the purposes of harvesting them.

Do the cadets and cooks deserve to lose for playing poorly and/or deadbeating? YES
Should we continue to reward these kinds of harvesting techniques or reform the scoring system? REFORM

This causes point inflation that makes the scoreboard not a true measure of a player's skill, but a measure of how often they apply harvesting techniques. This is what Lack said and to ignore the obvious harvesting technique of farming of cadets and cooks on difficult map settings is to bury your head like an ostrich under the sand and pay lip service to Lack's New Years message against farming and point inflation.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby lancehoch on Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:44 pm

Farang, the point of this thread was to state that playing games with the intent of having New Recruits join is considered a gross abuse of the game. This does not mean that targeting cooks or cadets is against the rules. Again, as I told porkenbeans, if you believe that someone is breaking the rules make a thread in C&A.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby FarangDemon on Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:54 pm

lancehoch wrote:Farang, the point of this thread was to state that playing games with the intent of having New Recruits join is considered a gross abuse of the game. This does not mean that targeting cooks or cadets is against the rules. Again, as I told porkenbeans, if you believe that someone is breaking the rules make a thread in C&A.


Kind of a waste of time when you don't read my posts carefully, fail to inspect game logs and then lock the threads before anyone else can see it and respond, isn't it?

You are shutting me down. That's why I'm in the discussion. So other people can read what I have to say before you silence me.

What do you gain by persisting to defend these obvious harvesting techniques?

Popularity among cyber buddies that like to garnish their scores by farming? That is pretty lame.

Why can't you ATTEMPT to fix an OBVIOUS problem with the scoring system? Instead of pretending that you all are doing all you can when you are really just silencing all discussion of suggestions and alternatives because you want farming to continue?
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby Artimis on Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:13 am

lackattack wrote:We have taken the following measures to stop Newbie Farming:

  • For New Recruits, we filtered out game options from the join page if they reduce the chance of new players reaching their 1st promotion (see here here and here).
  • We shut down any usergroups with a focus on Newbie Farming.
  • We are sending individual warnings to the Farmers Guild and select other users who have practiced farming in the past. These should be arriving soon.


Right Farang, lets look at this again. The important bits are highlighted in BOLD. It's very, very clear that anyone who targets NEW players will get run out of town. This is exactly what is happening and will continue to happen so long as you and other users report NEWBIE farming, not LOWBIE farming, but NEWBIE farming.

NEWBIE: A new comer who is highly inexperienced and not too familiar with the rules or how to play the game.
LOWBIE: Formerly a NEWBIE that has been around long enough to pick up the game and start winning, but is not particularly successful for whatever reason.

Big difference, LOWBIES are aware of the dangers of playing, know how to play and can(if they work hard enough) win games.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby Jeff Hardy on Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:45 am

if you see someone farming then report them in the Cheating & Abuse forum

is it that hard to understand?
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby King_Herpes on Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:07 am

Jeff Hardy wrote:if you see someone farming then report them in the Cheating & Abuse forum

is it that hard to understand?


So...let me get this straight, I can accuse people of doing what I perceive as farming. By making a report in some place called the Cheating & Abuse forum without slandering their names in General Discussions and incessantly pointing at their games with a laser pointer?

Nice.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby owenshooter on Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:39 pm

King_Herpes wrote:So...let me get this straight, I can accuse people of doing what I perceive as farming. By making a report in some place called the Cheating & Abuse forum without slandering their names in General Discussions and incessantly pointing at their games with a laser pointer?

Nice.

you left out the whole offensive ugly cat avatar... that is essential for these activities... the black jesus has spoken...-0
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby sailorseal on Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:44 pm

I think New Recruits shouldn't be able to start games and can't receive PMs from players not on their buddy list
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby Timminz on Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:12 pm

sailorseal wrote:I think New Recruits shouldn't be able to start games and can't receive PMs from players not on their buddy list

Careful there. Some people don't understand sarcasm.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby demonfork on Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:36 pm

owenshooter wrote:
King_Herpes wrote:So...let me get this straight, I can accuse people of doing what I perceive as farming. By making a report in some place called the Cheating & Abuse forum without slandering their names in General Discussions and incessantly pointing at their games with a laser pointer?

Nice.

you left out the whole offensive ugly cat avatar... that is essential for these activities... the black jesus has spoken...-0



That is f-ing hilarious :lol:
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby FarangDemon on Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:28 am

artimis wrote:NEWBIE: A new comer who is highly inexperienced and not too familiar with the rules or how to play the game.
LOWBIE: Formerly a NEWBIE that has been around long enough to pick up the game and start winning, but is not particularly successful for whatever reason.

Big difference, LOWBIES are aware of the dangers of playing, know how to play and can(if they work hard enough) win games.


You are not adding anything to this discussion that anybody, even myself, did not know or agree with. We all know Lack was talking about Newbie farming. However, I think we should take seriously his stated concern that the scoreboard should represent a player's skill as opposed to decision to employ harvesting techniques. This transcends Newbie farming because it is possible to harvest cooks and cadets - they dead beat a lot, have poor strategy and/or don't read game chat. If you can play on certain map settings against players of such low skill/motivation that they will win less than 1 in 21 games against an organized, skilled team, that team can be harvested by farmers. (5 points * 20 losses = 100 points lost, 100 points * 1 win = 100 points gained)

If functionality were provided to search past games by rank of the players, we could easily calculate just how often an all cook/cadet team is able to win against a team with at least one colonel or brig. If they lose more than 20 out of 21 times that would prove the efficacy of the harvesting technique. Maybe on straightforward maps instead of waterloo or conquerman they can actually win 1 out of 21 games. Then we would just need to extend the current New Recruit map restriction to cooks and cadets.

I could be totally wrong, but I don't think so. Why don't we let numbers decide?

Lack likes numbers and I think he employed similar methods to determine that Newbie farming was a viable harvesting technique. So if the mods won't enforce his stated position against harvesting techniques and he is truly concerned about the problem, he will crunch the numbers on this one to determine if cadet/cook targeting is indeed a viable harvesting technique.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby chipv on Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:52 am

FarangDemon wrote:If functionality were provided to search past games by rank of the players, we could easily calculate just how often an all cook/cadet team is able to win against a team with at least one colonel or brig. If they lose more than 20 out of 21 times that would prove the efficacy of the harvesting technique. Maybe on straightforward maps instead of waterloo or conquerman they can actually win 1 out of 21 games. Then we would just need to extend the current New Recruit map restriction to cooks and cadets.

I could be totally wrong, but I don't think so. Why don't we let numbers decide?



If you looked at the problem slightly differently you would actually be able to work this out yourself - functionality exists for you, just not exactly in the same direction as your way of looking at this problem.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby Artimis on Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:19 am

FarangDemon wrote:You are not adding anything to this discussion that anybody, even myself, did not know or agree with.

That makes two of us.

FarangDemon wrote:This transcends Newbie farming because it is possible to harvest cooks and cadets - they dead beat a lot, have poor strategy and/or don't read game chat.

That as may be, they certainly didn't do any of that in the games I played with KH.

FarangDemon wrote:Then we would just need to extend the current New Recruit map restriction to cooks and cadets.

So you're suggesting an effective ban on certain maps for players with a low score? No thank you very much! They can't learn the map if they can't play, it's as simple as that. Also I personally object on the grounds that my score dips regularly when I suddenly go on a new map try out blitz. So I would most definitely not appreciate being barred from newer, harder and more interesting maps just because I couldn't give a flying toss about my score! :evil:

FarangDemon wrote:I could be totally wrong, but I don't think so. Why don't we let numbers decide?

Yes, no and sure.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby Jeff Hardy on Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:40 am

farang, this has been said before but you never seem to read it (you certainly dont reply)... you abuse the scoring system by asking high ranked players to set up private games for you and your partner to join, your partner being a striper

you deserve to win and lose 20 points per games but i remember only taking 14 so you stole 6 points there which is more than what id gain if i played a cadet or a cook!

stop abusing the system yourself or just shut up
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