New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby Jeff Hardy on Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:45 am

if you see someone farming then report them in the Cheating & Abuse forum

is it that hard to understand?
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby King_Herpes on Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:07 am

Jeff Hardy wrote:if you see someone farming then report them in the Cheating & Abuse forum

is it that hard to understand?


So...let me get this straight, I can accuse people of doing what I perceive as farming. By making a report in some place called the Cheating & Abuse forum without slandering their names in General Discussions and incessantly pointing at their games with a laser pointer?

Nice.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby owenshooter on Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:39 pm

King_Herpes wrote:So...let me get this straight, I can accuse people of doing what I perceive as farming. By making a report in some place called the Cheating & Abuse forum without slandering their names in General Discussions and incessantly pointing at their games with a laser pointer?

Nice.

you left out the whole offensive ugly cat avatar... that is essential for these activities... the black jesus has spoken...-0
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby sailorseal on Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:44 pm

I think New Recruits shouldn't be able to start games and can't receive PMs from players not on their buddy list
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby Timminz on Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:12 pm

sailorseal wrote:I think New Recruits shouldn't be able to start games and can't receive PMs from players not on their buddy list

Careful there. Some people don't understand sarcasm.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby demonfork on Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:36 pm

owenshooter wrote:
King_Herpes wrote:So...let me get this straight, I can accuse people of doing what I perceive as farming. By making a report in some place called the Cheating & Abuse forum without slandering their names in General Discussions and incessantly pointing at their games with a laser pointer?

Nice.

you left out the whole offensive ugly cat avatar... that is essential for these activities... the black jesus has spoken...-0



That is f-ing hilarious :lol:
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby FarangDemon on Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:28 am

artimis wrote:NEWBIE: A new comer who is highly inexperienced and not too familiar with the rules or how to play the game.
LOWBIE: Formerly a NEWBIE that has been around long enough to pick up the game and start winning, but is not particularly successful for whatever reason.

Big difference, LOWBIES are aware of the dangers of playing, know how to play and can(if they work hard enough) win games.


You are not adding anything to this discussion that anybody, even myself, did not know or agree with. We all know Lack was talking about Newbie farming. However, I think we should take seriously his stated concern that the scoreboard should represent a player's skill as opposed to decision to employ harvesting techniques. This transcends Newbie farming because it is possible to harvest cooks and cadets - they dead beat a lot, have poor strategy and/or don't read game chat. If you can play on certain map settings against players of such low skill/motivation that they will win less than 1 in 21 games against an organized, skilled team, that team can be harvested by farmers. (5 points * 20 losses = 100 points lost, 100 points * 1 win = 100 points gained)

If functionality were provided to search past games by rank of the players, we could easily calculate just how often an all cook/cadet team is able to win against a team with at least one colonel or brig. If they lose more than 20 out of 21 times that would prove the efficacy of the harvesting technique. Maybe on straightforward maps instead of waterloo or conquerman they can actually win 1 out of 21 games. Then we would just need to extend the current New Recruit map restriction to cooks and cadets.

I could be totally wrong, but I don't think so. Why don't we let numbers decide?

Lack likes numbers and I think he employed similar methods to determine that Newbie farming was a viable harvesting technique. So if the mods won't enforce his stated position against harvesting techniques and he is truly concerned about the problem, he will crunch the numbers on this one to determine if cadet/cook targeting is indeed a viable harvesting technique.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby chipv on Fri Jan 16, 2009 7:52 am

FarangDemon wrote:If functionality were provided to search past games by rank of the players, we could easily calculate just how often an all cook/cadet team is able to win against a team with at least one colonel or brig. If they lose more than 20 out of 21 times that would prove the efficacy of the harvesting technique. Maybe on straightforward maps instead of waterloo or conquerman they can actually win 1 out of 21 games. Then we would just need to extend the current New Recruit map restriction to cooks and cadets.

I could be totally wrong, but I don't think so. Why don't we let numbers decide?



If you looked at the problem slightly differently you would actually be able to work this out yourself - functionality exists for you, just not exactly in the same direction as your way of looking at this problem.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby Artimis on Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:19 am

FarangDemon wrote:You are not adding anything to this discussion that anybody, even myself, did not know or agree with.

That makes two of us.

FarangDemon wrote:This transcends Newbie farming because it is possible to harvest cooks and cadets - they dead beat a lot, have poor strategy and/or don't read game chat.

That as may be, they certainly didn't do any of that in the games I played with KH.

FarangDemon wrote:Then we would just need to extend the current New Recruit map restriction to cooks and cadets.

So you're suggesting an effective ban on certain maps for players with a low score? No thank you very much! They can't learn the map if they can't play, it's as simple as that. Also I personally object on the grounds that my score dips regularly when I suddenly go on a new map try out blitz. So I would most definitely not appreciate being barred from newer, harder and more interesting maps just because I couldn't give a flying toss about my score! :evil:

FarangDemon wrote:I could be totally wrong, but I don't think so. Why don't we let numbers decide?

Yes, no and sure.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby Jeff Hardy on Fri Jan 16, 2009 8:40 am

farang, this has been said before but you never seem to read it (you certainly dont reply)... you abuse the scoring system by asking high ranked players to set up private games for you and your partner to join, your partner being a striper

you deserve to win and lose 20 points per games but i remember only taking 14 so you stole 6 points there which is more than what id gain if i played a cadet or a cook!

stop abusing the system yourself or just shut up
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby GENERAL STONEHAM on Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:36 pm

Jeff stop your hypocricy in this thread. You have repeatedly teased me with multiple p.m.s that you'd play me. But, you always try to put HUGE restrictions on the type of game you want to play. Or, you'll pm me at some awkward time about some illusional speed game, especially when I told you that I just don't have the time for one, at the time of your constant e-mails.

You have shown how precious your points mean to you.

Telling players to shut up is not only rude, but shows what a hypocrite you are.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby 40kguy on Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:25 pm

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO MORE
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby Robinette on Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:47 am

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Make the BAD farmers STOP
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby freakns on Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:28 pm

first of all, im a newbie. well, i still havent finished 20 games, so, im a newbie. right?

with that said, i dont think you should ban someone for playing with newbies. i mean, being a newbie isnt the same as being an idiot.

look at this game:
http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=3898106
group of good rated players got bitten by a newbie and some cooks. all you need to do this is conversation between teammates...

also, who cares about points? if someone is that much obsessed with fake success, then let him/her have it... having fun and playing with my m8s is much more important in my book :)
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby Artimis on Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:09 am

freakns wrote:also, who cares about points? if someone is that much obsessed with fake success, then let him/her have it... having fun and playing with my m8s is much more important in my book :)


Hear! Hear! I couldn't agree more. :D
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby FarangDemon on Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:44 am

freakns wrote:also, who cares about points? if someone is that much obsessed with fake success, then let him/her have it... having fun and playing with my m8s is much more important in my book :)


I don't wish to take the fun out of the game. I just would like to take farming out of the game. It could easily be done. And rest assured that fun can be preserved under a scoring system that does not reward farming.

You sound happy with the system, and I respect your opinion. But if you stick around long enough and become competitive, you will start to gain some satisfaction in having attained a higher rank by consistently beating opponents. That is normal and healthy. Then after you get to a certain point, it will dawn on you that not skill, but willingness and persistence to continually apply harvesting techniques is the only way to get ahead. I haven't reached that point, but I can clearly see that it lies ahead. I want to get ahead without having to farm - namely, by playing and beating the best players.

Let's change the system where this is how you get ahead. If you don't care about your score, you don't care about your score - that has no bearing on any argument except that you don't care about your score. Anti-farming measures are not going to adversely affect you.

Many players that are adamant about allowing harvesting techniques is because they enjoy that aspect of the game. It is reassuring to know that you can always up your score by targeting cooks and cadets on map settings that they cannot win 1 in 60 games on.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=75435

Of course I understand where they are coming from and respect their opinions, but the reality is that the majority of the CC community actively wishes to scrap the scoring system that rewards harvesting techniques.
Last edited by FarangDemon on Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby prismsaber on Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:00 am

freakns wrote:
also, who cares about points? if someone is that much obsessed with fake success, then let him/her have it... having fun and playing with my m8s is much more important in my book :)


Words of a loser. Ever think that one could enjoy both success and playing with their m8's?
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby Artimis on Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:04 pm

prismsaber wrote:Words of a loser. Ever think that one could enjoy both success and playing with their m8's?

Words of a ..... Actually I can't say that here, it's not Flame Wars.

FarangDemon wrote:Many players that are adamant about allowing harvesting techniques is because they enjoy that aspect of the game. It is reassuring to know that you can always up your score by targeting cooks and cadets on map settings that they cannot win 1 in 60 games on.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=75435

Fine, so look for ways to take farming out of the game, but that suggestion annoys me, because I don't want to be forced into minding my score just so as I can continue to play some of my favourite maps. Hmmmm, I've got a modification in mind, see you in the other forum.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby freakns on Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:09 pm

FarangDemon wrote:I just would like to take farming out of the game. It could easily be done. And rest assured that fun can be preserved under a scoring system that does not reward farming.

You sound happy with the system, and I respect your opinion. But if you stick around long enough and become competitive, you will start to gain some satisfaction in having attained a higher rank by consistently beating opponents. That is normal and healthy. Then after you get to a certain point, it will dawn on you that not skill, but willingness and persistence to continually apply harvesting techniques is the only way to get ahead. I haven't reached that point, but I can clearly see that it lies ahead. I want to get ahead without having to farm - namely, by playing and beating the best players.

while i agree with most of what youve said, i really failing to see how can someone lose 60 games in a row.
and i think you can easily change game settings and prevent farming.
for example, any player with more then 1500 points can not gain or lose any point in games where at least one player has score lower then 1000. or 800. you count the right numbers... those people can play among each other, but cant win anything but satisfaction of playing a game... this way people who care only about their score wouldnt have a chance to gain score through farming... and thats just one idea...

prismsaber wrote:
freakns wrote:
also, who cares about points? if someone is that much obsessed with fake success, then let him/her have it... having fun and playing with my m8s is much more important in my book :)


Words of a loser. Ever think that one could enjoy both success and playing with their m8's?

ever think risk is a game of luck as much as a game of strategy?
and i have no intention to call out for you or your opinion... must be because im such a loser...
ps. i do enjoy winning. strangely...
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby prismsaber on Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:43 pm

freakns wrote:
also, who cares about points? if someone is that much obsessed with fake success, then let him/her have it... having fun and playing with my m8s is much more important in my book :)

ever think risk is a game of luck as much as a game of strategy?
and i have no intention to call out for you or your opinion... must be because im such a loser...
ps. i do enjoy winning. strangely...


I'm tired of low rank, mediocre players complaining about "fake success" and that if you care about actually being good then you're not enjoying the game. This is a logical fallacy. Yes there is obviously an element of luck and that's why the best players lose to even cooks once in a while but the cream always rises to the top as they say. I enjoy having a decent rank and playing this game with real life friends...it's the best of both worlds.

No matter how much someone tries to rationalize their low rank ("I'm just having fun!") the reason why they aren't ranked more highly is because A. They are not very good, B. They are simply inexperienced, or C. they play highly luck based game types for whatever reason. Regardless, if you just like to have "fun" then why post in the forums and belittle other people's accomplishments? Maybe you just enjoy conflict.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby freakns on Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:45 am

prismsaber wrote:
freakns wrote:
also, who cares about points? if someone is that much obsessed with fake success, then let him/her have it... having fun and playing with my m8s is much more important in my book :)

ever think risk is a game of luck as much as a game of strategy?
and i have no intention to call out for you or your opinion... must be because im such a loser...
ps. i do enjoy winning. strangely...


I'm tired of low rank, mediocre players complaining about "fake success" and that if you care about actually being good then you're not enjoying the game. This is a logical fallacy. Yes there is obviously an element of luck and that's why the best players lose to even cooks once in a while but the cream always rises to the top as they say. I enjoy having a decent rank and playing this game with real life friends...it's the best of both worlds.

No matter how much someone tries to rationalize their low rank ("I'm just having fun!") the reason why they aren't ranked more highly is because A. They are not very good, B. They are simply inexperienced, or C. they play highly luck based game types for whatever reason. Regardless, if you just like to have "fun" then why post in the forums and belittle other people's accomplishments? Maybe you just enjoy conflict.

are you suggesting im mediocre player who is complaining about others being successful? well, i might be, but im here for about a month, finished 17 games and won in 10 of them, so you cant say anything about how good i am...
actually, i was the one saying if someone wants fishing for cooks and playing that way, let him. i looked at some of the top players on the scoreboard, and the pattern is more then visible. mostly team games with same teammates. i understand they like playing that way, its fine by me. but do i want to play like that, and turn risk into a mechanic game where strategy is determine infront? no, thank you. and if someone measures my skills based on points score this way? fine by me, because as i said, im not playing this to be best, because there is only one best player and bunch of angry one chasing him. i dont know about you, but id rather chase something else and spend my time here trying to be better then my friends in every game we play... sometimes someone else will prevail and will rub my nose about it, but you know what? its also fun. yes, it is, trust me
and yeah, i dont rationalize my low rank, i just dont care about it. is that so hard to understand? im ready to congratulate you on your good ranking and if we meat on CC battlefield one day, im sure i will enjoy the challenge you can give me, and hopefully vise versa. because losing a game, as i said, can also be fun, on so many levels. after all, its just a game...
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby FarangDemon on Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:16 am

freakns wrote:while i agree with most of what youve said, i really failing to see how can someone lose 60 games in a row.


http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=75435

Check out the link I posted above. It explains in detail how in all 60 games containing a particular player on a particular map against teams consisting of at least one cook and nobody Lieutenant or above, the cook team lost every single one of the 60 games.

This shows that high ranked players that target teams containing cooks and no officers on Waterloo are exploiting a harvesting technique whereby they can win every game because their opponents can never win. Sure they would win eventually, given enough games, but they don't win enough to prevent technique from being profitable.

The implication is that harvesting of less skilled players may be possible on many different maps and map restrictions should be imposed to prevent players from exploiting this harvesting technique.

While Lack mentioned that the scoreboard was supposed to measure skill and not the use of harvesting techniques, he did not specifically define harvesting techniques. That is what my sug bug is attempting to do. Define harvesting techniques by looking at how often cook teams actually win against skilled, organized players.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby leolou2 on Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:10 pm

let em all cheat i'm in for the game and kill =D> i like going thru the forum and reading all this @ its fun oflmao
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby GENERAL STONEHAM on Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:08 am

FarangDemon wrote:
freakns wrote:while i agree with most of what youve said, i really failing to see how can someone lose 60 games in a row.


http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=75435

Check out the link I posted above. It explains in detail how in all 60 games containing a particular player on a particular map against teams consisting of at least one cook and nobody Lieutenant or above, the cook team lost every single one of the 60 games.

This shows that high ranked players that target teams containing cooks and no officers on Waterloo are exploiting a harvesting technique whereby they can win every game because their opponents can never win. Sure they would win eventually, given enough games, but they don't win enough to prevent technique from being profitable.

The implication is that harvesting of less skilled players may be possible on many different maps and map restrictions should be imposed to prevent players from exploiting this harvesting technique.

While Lack mentioned that the scoreboard was supposed to measure skill and not the use of harvesting techniques, he did not specifically define harvesting techniques. That is what my sug bug is attempting to do. Define harvesting techniques by looking at how often cook teams actually win against skilled, organized players.



GREAT!!!

With all this information about "Farming", others like myself can now move up the ladder of ranks. Slowly, but surely.

Just call me Farmer Stoneham, farmer of newbies and other morons. Mmmmmm, what's cooking? Cooks with a touch of cadet and newbie, Mmmmm
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby Artimis on Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:32 am

GENERAL STONEHAM wrote:GREAT!!!

With all this information about "Farming", others like myself can now move up the ladder of ranks. Slowly, but surely.

Just call me Farmer Stoneham, farmer of newbies and other morons. Mmmmmm, what's cooking? Cooks with a touch of cadet and newbie, Mmmmm


I believe the point of Farang bringing this to our attention is inform potential targets of farming so that they will be wary of the situations he has outlined, not encourage the proliferation of farming. I applaud his noble intentions, but I find some of his suggestions, somewhat hard to stomach at best.
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