New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby Hotdoggie on Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:51 pm

lame...jst lame
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby Aradhus on Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:08 am

porkenbeans wrote:
Aradhus wrote:
porkenbeans wrote:
Aradhus wrote:So.. How much research was actually done on this subject? (Or did the "research" amount to 20 to 30 regulars everyday screaming "farmers farmers kill them ban them they ruin teh siiiteeeeee!" until the admin couldn't take it anymore..

1 - If somebody sent me a personal message minutes after I joined this site, asking me if I wanted to play a game, I would have thought "wow, this looks like a friendly place."

2 - Would I have gotten my ass kicked? Yes, actually my first game I did get my ass kicked, and I'm pretty positive that stands for about 99%(at least) of all the players that join CC. Regardless of who they played.

3 - If there was research done on farming etc, new players, the like, is it available to the'community'? Can I read it, andwas any information compiled on freestyle team farming, uh I mean games. Freestyle team games, I said farming, I meant games.
look whos' screaming now. lol. :lol:
You guys just do not get it. People come here to play risk, ...NOT rape the newbie.



What the hell are you talking about? Why did you quote my post?

Have you read the rules to this forum? Exactly what contribution did your post make to the topic?

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Your post makes no sense in context with my post. You're an imbecile, even you don't know what you are saying.

I personally think this 'new rule' is idiotic, lacks insight, and will potentially demonize people(just as you like to do). That has nothing to do with me thinking farming is ok, or that I farm as you claim. You're an idiot, go kill yourself.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby Itrade on Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:10 am

Now now, no need to get so harsh. If we don't want him contiminating the gene pool we can just castrate him. That way he can still live the rest of his life, albeit in some sort of freak show somewhere. I'm sure loads of people would pay to see The Incredible Stupidest Man on Earth or whatever his show would be called.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby obliterationX on Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:09 am

The only way a newbie can learn is by being exploited at the cold hands of a seemingly kind and friendly noob farmer.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby mikeyfranz on Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:10 am

What if you could solve the problem of newbie farming mathematically? For example, what if Newbies started with 200 points instead of 1000 points. Then if a player with 2000 points, beats a newbie with 200 points, he will only receive 1 point instead of 10 points.

The problem is that by starting with 1000 points, a newbie has more points than he's worth. If you have 3000 points, you have probably earned it. If you have 1000 points you might not necessarily be worth that many yet, therefore you become a potentially easy target for a farmer.

If imposed I think all other players scores should also drop by 800, and the numbers associated with ranking changes should also be adjusted accordingly so nobody drops rank. Perhaps 200 isn't the right number either. Maybe it's 500, or 100, or 0, but I think this concept is worth considering. I also don't know how it would work if a player got below 0, but I would love to hear people's suggestions and comments on this idea.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby FarangDemon on Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:24 am

First of all, I applaud the effort toward making CC more competitive. It's a great first step.

MuEagles79 wrote:your logic is completely faulty unless you believe only people of similar ranks/experience should be playing each other


Some people do desire a ranking system that would indicate that a player ranked higher than another player tends to beat them head-to-head. The current system does not always indicate this because there are many techniques for inflating your score without playing peers, as the OP has stated.

Many suggestions are being discussed in sugs and bugs on scoring system reform / scoreboard reform with regard to this aim. Some are band-aid approaches which might be more readily implemented in the near term, but do not solve the whole problem (i.e. performing some function on the current scores that takes into account proportion of peer-to-peer playing). Some suggestions are more radical, for altering the scoring system so that farming is actually impossible - this would be the simplest and most effective solution.

Not sure what the majority of CCers think because very few members take part in polls. That being said, every poll I've seen has been in favor of implementing anything that would make it harder to get ahead by farming or at least provide some recognition to players who do not farm (according to some best guess consensus mathematical formula).

We will see how far CC leadership will go toward addressing these concerns.

MuEagles79 wrote:I just see a slippery slope here of determining what constitutes "newbie farming".



Very good point. Like some other posters said, it would be much more effective to change the scoring system to not reward farming on the scale that it currently does than to attempt to define farming on a case by case basis and create a set of possibly cumbersome rules.

It's like fighting the war on drugs by arresting individual users without realizing that the war can never be won as long as demand remains high.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby stahrgazer on Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:12 am

obliterationX wrote:The only way a newbie can learn is by being exploited at the cold hands of a seemingly kind and friendly noob farmer.


Not true. A non-farmer can take the person into a game, carefully explaining moves and how to read the board; offering advice on what to stay away from for a while; so that in game #2 the newbie has a fighting chance and some info on how not to get suckered in as a field for plowing.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby Nephilim on Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:21 am

stahrgazer wrote:
obliterationX wrote:The only way a newbie can learn is by being exploited at the cold hands of a seemingly kind and friendly noob farmer.


Not true. A non-farmer can take the person into a game, carefully explaining moves and how to read the board; offering advice on what to stay away from for a while; so that in game #2 the newbie has a fighting chance and some info on how not to get suckered in as a field for plowing.


you really telling me that you didn't notice the sarcasm in the post you quoted?
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby KoE_Sirius on Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:34 am

King_Herpes wrote:It's about damn time. I mean, how long were you going to let that madness continue? It's an outrage I tell ya! Darn farmers, all they care about is points points points...

Yeah well said KH. =D>
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby KoE_Sirius on Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:35 am

Nephilim wrote:
stahrgazer wrote:
obliterationX wrote:The only way a newbie can learn is by being exploited at the cold hands of a seemingly kind and friendly noob farmer.


Not true. A non-farmer can take the person into a game, carefully explaining moves and how to read the board; offering advice on what to stay away from for a while; so that in game #2 the newbie has a fighting chance and some info on how not to get suckered in as a field for plowing.


you really telling me that you didn't notice the sarcasm in the post you quoted?

Sarcasm,Do we have that here too? 8-[
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby porkenbeans on Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:43 pm

mikeyfranz wrote:What if you could solve the problem of newbie farming mathematically? For example, what if Newbies started with 200 points instead of 1000 points. Then if a player with 2000 points, beats a newbie with 200 points, he will only receive 1 point instead of 10 points.

The problem is that by starting with 1000 points, a newbie has more points than he's worth. If you have 3000 points, you have probably earned it. If you have 1000 points you might not necessarily be worth that many yet, therefore you become a potentially easy target for a farmer.

If imposed I think all other players scores should also drop by 800, and the numbers associated with ranking changes should also be adjusted accordingly so nobody drops rank. Perhaps 200 isn't the right number either. Maybe it's 500, or 100, or 0, but I think this concept is worth considering. I also don't know how it would work if a player got below 0, but I would love to hear people's suggestions and comments on this idea.
Excellent observation.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby hundredand1aces on Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:14 pm

FireStar wrote:
Phlaim wrote:Is "Map specializing"(for example most of King_herpes latest games) and "team-freestyle-farming"(for example: Game 3906454) a part of this?


team freestyle farming... i don't know why someone would start a team freestyle game on doodle earth ( or something similar) with unlimited forts... if they do then its their own fault... just my opinion


I completely agree. If someone is naive enough to set up a game they have no clue about or join a game that is already set up then its their own fault for doing so. So telling me I can't join a game because of my rank after I have paid for access to this site is completely absurd. And posting a "rule" in the forums is just as absurd as well, if I click on the rules tab and see nothing that dictates what games I can join and which ones I can not then is it really a rule?

Unwritten Rules

Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts.

I see nothing in the unwritten rules that sates I can not join a game they has "newbies" in it...........I was noobed when I first joined, now I know better and I learned this by getting beat in the newbie farming method..........

Just my two cents

Oh and if my account is banned for joining whatever game I choose to join, then my money can stay in my pocket and I will NEVER renew a membership on here.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby el-presidente on Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:48 pm

It does help to play games against people better than you because they are going to help show you strategies as you watch what they do. BUT, I don't think it is fair that someone can be a very high rank just by newbie farming although the joke is on them, because the game is about playing a great strategy game, not just climbing the ranks. It isn't fair to farm but I would rather spend my time playing people better than me in order to improve than spend my time farming. I don't really think there should be a rule against it but it should be advised against.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby john9blue on Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:04 pm

mikeyfranz wrote:What if you could solve the problem of newbie farming mathematically? For example, what if Newbies started with 200 points instead of 1000 points. Then if a player with 2000 points, beats a newbie with 200 points, he will only receive 1 point instead of 10 points.

The problem is that by starting with 1000 points, a newbie has more points than he's worth. If you have 3000 points, you have probably earned it. If you have 1000 points you might not necessarily be worth that many yet, therefore you become a potentially easy target for a farmer.

If imposed I think all other players scores should also drop by 800, and the numbers associated with ranking changes should also be adjusted accordingly so nobody drops rank. Perhaps 200 isn't the right number either. Maybe it's 500, or 100, or 0, but I think this concept is worth considering. I also don't know how it would work if a player got below 0, but I would love to hear people's suggestions and comments on this idea.


It would definitely have to be 500. When I first joined, I had previous experience with Risk and was probably at least a corporal in terms of skill level. If I had gotten lucky and beaten seven Sergeants 1st Class with scores of 1500, they would have lost 60 points each, and my score would rocket up to 920. Not exactly fair, imo.

Ideally, we should have a way to determine a person's skill level before they join games, so that we can assign them a preemptive score. Either ask them how much Risk experience they have upon joining (no experience gives 800, little experience gives 900, and much experience gives 1000), or have them play a few unranked games first, and decide their score from the results. We should have unranked games anyway (although the idea has been shot down a few times for unknown reasons). My friends and I play crappy PlayStation Risk now instead of Conquer Club, because I would be risking too many points (they are privates, but have at least the skill of sergeants).

They aren't perfect solutions, but it might help solve the farming problem. :|
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby The Neon Peon on Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:12 pm

Why not have a test game?

Every 3v3 = -x score
Every 2v1 = -x
Every time they do not break a bonus = -x score
Every time they do not fort = -x score
etc...

Maybe that would be hard to code, but actual players can do it too.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby neanderpaul14 on Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:36 pm

King_Herpes wrote:It's about damn time. I mean, how long were you going to let that madness continue? It's an outrage I tell ya! Darn farmers, all they care about is points points points...



=D> =D> :lol: :P Awright Herps any ideas what we should do to the farmers??
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby King_Herpes on Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:54 am

neanderpaul14 wrote:
King_Herpes wrote:It's about damn time. I mean, how long were you going to let that madness continue? It's an outrage I tell ya! Darn farmers, all they care about is points points points...



=D> =D> :lol: :P Awright Herps any ideas what we should do to the farmers??



Well, actually since you asked. I find it kind of imperialistic to just come through and snatch our pride right out of our hands. We were one with the spiritual Conquer Club and we mothered every ? that came into our lives. Just because we appeared to be primitive and not as domesticated doesn't mean we aren't kind, gentle, and giving souls. I personally believe that we are entitled to some form of reservation and casino offerings. I did subtly warn Twill that if we continue to be suppressed and erased from CC history than there will be an uprising where we attack your trains and burn your carriages. However, I've grown a bit depressed and am slowly forgetting what it means to be a farmer *Sigh*. I'm currently drinking my 4th bottle of hairspray while loathing my fallen fellow warriors and spirit ancestors.

-Chief Herp, last of the herpaewa farmers
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby Mr Changsha on Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:20 am

King_Herpes wrote:
neanderpaul14 wrote:
King_Herpes wrote:It's about damn time. I mean, how long were you going to let that madness continue? It's an outrage I tell ya! Darn farmers, all they care about is points points points...



=D> =D> :lol: :P Awright Herps any ideas what we should do to the farmers??



Well, actually since you asked. I find it kind of imperialistic to just come through and snatch our pride right out of our hands. We were one with the spiritual Conquer Club and we mothered every ? that came into our lives. Just because we appeared to be primitive and not as domesticated doesn't mean we aren't kind, gentle, and giving souls. I personally believe that we are entitled to some form of reservation and casino offerings. I did subtly warn Twill that if we continue to be suppressed and erased from CC history than there will be an uprising where we attack your trains and burn your carriages. However, I've grown a bit depressed and am slowly forgetting what it means to be a farmer *Sigh*. I'm currently drinking my 4th bottle of hairspray while loathing my fallen fellow warriors and spirit ancestors.

-Chief Herp, last of the herpaewa farmers


I think what we need here is a 'farming treatment program'. Responsible members can set up some multis and distribute them liberally around the site on fave farming maps. King_H and his ilk can have fun finding them and enjoy that special satisfaction of beating a deadbeat. It is not as easy as it looks you know! Every month we'll create less multis and gradually wean our favourite farming friends off of their nasty little addiction. It is the only humane thing to do!
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby Jobiwan on Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:02 am

I joined a week ago, got the premium so I could get lots of games going, I'm here for fun, you big boys can take my points anytime.....Farm me baby farm me baby all night long..... :lol:
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby Godlike-ness on Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:17 am

Yay...I totally agree =D>
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby ManBungalow on Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:00 am

Mr Changsha wrote:
King_Herpes wrote:
neanderpaul14 wrote:
King_Herpes wrote:It's about damn time. I mean, how long were you going to let that madness continue? It's an outrage I tell ya! Darn farmers, all they care about is points points points...



=D> =D> :lol: :P Awright Herps any ideas what we should do to the farmers??



Well, actually since you asked. I find it kind of imperialistic to just come through and snatch our pride right out of our hands. We were one with the spiritual Conquer Club and we mothered every ? that came into our lives. Just because we appeared to be primitive and not as domesticated doesn't mean we aren't kind, gentle, and giving souls. I personally believe that we are entitled to some form of reservation and casino offerings. I did subtly warn Twill that if we continue to be suppressed and erased from CC history than there will be an uprising where we attack your trains and burn your carriages. However, I've grown a bit depressed and am slowly forgetting what it means to be a farmer *Sigh*. I'm currently drinking my 4th bottle of hairspray while loathing my fallen fellow warriors and spirit ancestors.

-Chief Herp, last of the herpaewa farmers


I think what we need here is a 'farming treatment program'. Responsible members can set up some multis and distribute them liberally around the site on fave farming maps. King_H and his ilk can have fun finding them and enjoy that special satisfaction of beating a deadbeat. It is not as easy as it looks you know! Every month we'll create less multis and gradually wean our favourite farming friends off of their nasty little addiction. It is the only humane thing to do!

That's not a bad suggestion, Mr C...
It does seem a bit open to abuse; even if Lack/Twill does/do find responsible members...
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby Mr Changsha on Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:46 am

ManBungalow wrote:
Mr Changsha wrote:
King_Herpes wrote:
neanderpaul14 wrote:
King_Herpes wrote:It's about damn time. I mean, how long were you going to let that madness continue? It's an outrage I tell ya! Darn farmers, all they care about is points points points...



=D> =D> :lol: :P Awright Herps any ideas what we should do to the farmers??



Well, actually since you asked. I find it kind of imperialistic to just come through and snatch our pride right out of our hands. We were one with the spiritual Conquer Club and we mothered every ? that came into our lives. Just because we appeared to be primitive and not as domesticated doesn't mean we aren't kind, gentle, and giving souls. I personally believe that we are entitled to some form of reservation and casino offerings. I did subtly warn Twill that if we continue to be suppressed and erased from CC history than there will be an uprising where we attack your trains and burn your carriages. However, I've grown a bit depressed and am slowly forgetting what it means to be a farmer *Sigh*. I'm currently drinking my 4th bottle of hairspray while loathing my fallen fellow warriors and spirit ancestors.

-Chief Herp, last of the herpaewa farmers


I think what we need here is a 'farming treatment program'. Responsible members can set up some multis and distribute them liberally around the site on fave farming maps. King_H and his ilk can have fun finding them and enjoy that special satisfaction of beating a deadbeat. It is not as easy as it looks you know! Every month we'll create less multis and gradually wean our favourite farming friends off of their nasty little addiction. It is the only humane thing to do!

That's not a bad suggestion, Mr C...
It does seem a bit open to abuse; even if Lack/Twill does/do find responsible members...


May I just nominate myself as the kind of responsible member Lack/Twill are looking for.

Give me the freedom to set up hundreds of accounts and you can be sure I will NEVER use them for my own ends. Never, not at all and I'd rather eat man muck for dinner off a shite-encrusted bed pan.

I'm more trustworthy than a materially contented nun, whose only desire is to serve God and her lesbian-inclined domanatrix sisters.

I'd wean King_H off farming faster than an extrememly fast man running for his life from an unusually enraged cheetah, who just happened to have been injected with super strength commie 'go faster comrade' steroids.

(That's how the Chinese won so many medals at the olympics)

So make Mr C the 'Farming Prevention with special attention to Weaning' Moderator and I'll sort all this out in about five minutes.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby registered_user on Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:21 pm

I think it'd be just as easy to change the points equation from:

(loser's score / winner's score) * 20, up to a maximum of 100 points from each opponent

to

((loser's score / winner's score) * 20) - 5

Anyone over 2500 points who takes on a newbie would actually lose points.

cheers.
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby Jeff Hardy on Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:11 pm

registered_user wrote:I think it'd be just as easy to change the points equation from:

(loser's score / winner's score) * 20, up to a maximum of 100 points from each opponent

to

((loser's score / winner's score) * 20) - 5

Anyone over 2500 points who takes on a newbie would actually lose points.

cheers.

fucking ridiculous

stupidest idea ive ever heard
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Re: New Years Resolution: Newbie Farming is not Cool.

Postby GENERAL STONEHAM on Sun Jan 04, 2009 2:25 pm

Jeff Hardy wrote:
registered_user wrote:I think it'd be just as easy to change the points equation from:

(loser's score / winner's score) * 20, up to a maximum of 100 points from each opponent

to

((loser's score / winner's score) * 20) - 5

Anyone over 2500 points who takes on a newbie would actually lose points.

cheers.

fucking ridiculous

stupidest idea ive ever heard




Poor Jeff Hardy, he wants those precious points to preserve his "STAR"!

This kid wants to go after newbies, since he won't try to RISK! his ranking with a mature player.

Let's help out poor Jeffrey and let's help out other chicken-shit over-ranked pussies.

Here's what I propose, let's have games where all newbies must bend over or fall down on their knees and get their lil' cherries popped by high-ranked players. Now wouldn't that be a way to preserve these wimps from losing their ranks?

SAVE THE WHALES, SAVE OUR HIGH RANK PLAYERS!!!

...also, save a tree....eat a beaver
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