Baltic Crusades

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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:28 am

theBastard wrote:I a little edit fonts, now they are more redable. yours are great! they looks a little as Old English... I used which I have in CS2.

the trees which I add to map are necessary I think. I have few questions:
1, I made new layer for trees and named it "trees". but every tree has own layer as "layer 65", "layer 66"... is this fine?
2, if we do castles auto-deploy and any of castle will be neutral from start will this neutral castle auto-deploy "neutral" units?
3, is possible to set that castles will auto-deploy +3, but when we mark 4 of them as "special (teutonic)" and player holds all 4 these will auto-deploy +4?
Click image to enlarge.
image


I find that font still very hard to read. I think you're going to have to swap it with a new font.

1) This is normal. What you can do if you like is merge those layers to make a single layer of trees. It will make editing slightly more difficult as you'll have to do each tree one by one again, but at least you won't have so many files. To merge the layers, click on the top layer and hit ctrl+E, which will merge the top layer with the one beneath it. Alternatively, you can go to the layer menu up top and near the bottom of the menu is "Merge down"

2) It will not autodeploy neutral units. It only auto deploys when a player holds it.

3) I don't think this is possible. What is possible is that the castles can auto-deploy 3 and you get an additional bonus of 4 for holding 4 castles. Same numbers, just a different way of getting them.

Lastly, some housekeeping. Update your first post or no one will ever comment on this map and the mods won't advance it. Take a look at one of my map threads and its first post:
viewtopic.php?f=468&t=95710

You need to have your map information, the Current image version and previous versions. Always update your first page, a lot of times you can put something in the title that says what the current discussion about the map is going on, but that's more for when this goes into the gameplay workshop.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:59 am

thanks for answers. yours maps looks great. I like your style. how you did so "used" look?
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby natty dread on Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:14 am

theBastard wrote:thanks for answers. yours maps looks great. I like your style. how you did so "used" look?


Tutorial on grunge layers
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:24 pm

natty_dread wrote:
theBastard wrote:thanks for answers. yours maps looks great. I like your style. how you did so "used" look?


Tutorial on grunge layers


Natty's got it. I think once we get the skeleton of the map done, we'll work on adding some grunge to give the map life. But I'd rather have the basics of the map done first before we move on to advanced graphics.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:55 pm

o.k. and thanks guys. what do you think now? I am going to edit my first post as you told me Helix. when you say it is good I will write names of regions. will we do visible army circles?
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby Sir. Ricco on Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:01 pm

I have to admit, the green as water is very confusing. Would it be possible to change it to a blue?
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:04 pm

Sir. Ricco wrote:I have to admit, the green as water is very confusing. Would it be possible to change it to a blue?


for me no problem. I have one old map as base and there was water green. I wait for Industrial Helix what he will say...
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:08 pm

what about this?
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby natty dread on Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:31 pm

Btw... I noticed something in your legend: "Hanseatic towns, autodeploy +2 if you also hold visby"...

This is not possible: you can't make a conditional autodeploy.

You can make it give a normal deployable bonus of +2 if you also hold visby, or you can make it give a +2 autodeploy at all times, but sadly conditional autodeploys are not supported at the moment.

You could make them give a +1 autodeploy, and then give an additional +1 regular bonus if you also hold Visby.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:49 pm

o.k. thanks.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:30 pm

Helix, I´ve look at your "Italy map", could I write names of regions as you wrote "Nice"? so names of coastal towns/castle will be in the sea?
I´ve change deploying of towns, natty_dread told me that is impossible to have "each auto-deploy +2 when you also have Visby", so I added "each auto-deploy +1 and when you also have Visby bonus +1".

what do you think now?
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:39 pm

Ok... that text is a tad too small for that font to work... I'd suggest picking a font that has less going on in it. Though, if you increased the size of it in the legend it might be alright for the legend only.

Instead of killing hours changing them one by one, check out this tip which makes it real easy.

http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2004/11/ ... photoshop/

Noticed you've got an image int he background... it works pretty nicely in the water but on the land its just distracting. Move the image so that the colors and borders layers sit on top of the image and the water underneath.

Speaking of water... I think you ought to go for a blue color instead of the tan. The tan is just too similar to the land to work for this map. Here's how: Select the layer that the water is. In the upper menu go to Image -> Adjustments -> Hue/Saturation. Hit the checkbox colorize. Play with the Hue until you find a nice blue. Desaturate will make it more gray or real bright, lightness will make it darker or lighter. I'd say a lightly desaturated blue would work well for this map, especially with the image in the background.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:43 am

I a little edit fonts and made them bigger. also recoloured water and added sea routs. and I did Lordship of Courland and Bishopric of Osel and Wiek not so dark. the castles and towns symbols are smaller -10 %.

this is size 630 x 600
Click image to enlarge.
image


EDIT:
or look here. less dark Duchy of Pomerania, Livonian Confederation, Kingdom of Poland, Principality of Rugen.
size 630 x 600
Click image to enlarge.
image
Last edited by theBastard on Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:01 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:34 am

what about to do "Hanseatic trade routes" on land too?
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby Sir. Ricco on Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:29 pm

I like the water color. It balances out the overall look of things.

Does the land route connect the starting and ending points?
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:51 pm

Sir. Ricco wrote:I like the water color. It balances out the overall look of things.


thanks, yes now it looks better. more natural...

Sir. Ricco wrote:Does the land route connect the starting and ending points?


I only think about this. if there will be land routes they will work as sea routes, so yes they connect towns. but this take importance of castles, which "secure" bridges....

I will see what Industrial Helix will says.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby Industrial Helix on Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:59 pm

The trade routes seem like a pretty cool idea. I say keep it for now and work out the details later.

Ok, so let's talk advanced Graphics. We're going to give it that worn look that you mentioned I had on my maps. The first thing you need to do is find an image of a piece of worn paper off a search engine, make sure it is LARGE and bigger than your map. Then save it to your desk top and open it in Photoshop. Select all, Ctrl+A and use the move tool to drag it from it's window to the window with your map. Move the layer towards the bottom. Now go back to your region color layers and turn down the opacity. For start, bring it down to 50% on all of them and then tweak them as necessary until they're about equal in apparent opacity.

Next, you're images are getting pixelated... Make sure that you save these jpgs as a large file. you're cutting yourself short when you save as a small file.

In the space next to Passable/Impassable in the lower right legend, you should list the trade route and sea route as connecting.

Lastly, the font needs to go. Even increased in size it's too unreadable. There are a number of names I can't make out. Use the trick I posted a link to so you can make the changes quick and find a clear font that works with the theme of the map.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:18 pm

about trade routes, hm I think if we (I) can hold importance of castles it needs any idea. maybe between two towns connected with trade route could be one castle, so who hold castle also have control of trade route...

about fonts, I used about 20 Gothic/Medieval types but no one was fine. this one is the best, I think.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:44 pm

I maybe confused layers or gruop layers which are not the same, do not know but for some parts of map I can not set lower opacity. I will tomorow start on new version (and I will better mark layers :D ).

Helix, what do you think, is better to have more different bonuses or not to do game too complicated?
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby Industrial Helix on Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:16 pm

You're going to redo it? You might want to hold off on that. Editing layers is a good way to tackle problems without having to redo everything.

Layers are the individual colors or words or lines or shapes, ect.

Folders are what layers go into. They each have little buttons at the bottom of the layer menu... which if you don't have out its menu at the top, Windows -> Layer.

This link kind of goes through the bits and pieces of layers, give it a brief look cause I'm not entirely sure what you're asking me: http://www.photoshopcafe.com/tutorials/layers/intro.htm
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:21 am

I finished it. I like it, so I will wait for your opinion.

I have two questions:
about cs2: is possible to use "clone stamp tool" in csS. so I "take" colour from one layer and draw another?

about map/gameplay: I think about more bonuse, for example mark some castles/regions and who holds them he will give bonus as Polish/Lithuania commontwealth or Teutonic state (united Teutonic Order with Livonian Sword Brethren). and I can add there also any "bonuses" with -1 unit.

game idea - starting positions will be castles and towns. I did game for 5 players (3 castles, 1 town as starting position for each player), but we can have 6 players (2 castles, 1 town for each one) or 8 players (2 castles, 1 town - but here I must do one more castle). as I wrote, my idea is to build game on auto-deploy units - but maybe it is not good idea, just I want have castles important.

Click image to enlarge.
image


size 630 x 600
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby Industrial Helix on Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:37 am

Wow... looking great! If you fixed that font we'd be in real good shape.

In the meantime, you need to submit your design brief:

Map Name: <name>
Link to Thread: <link>
Mapmaker(s): <up to two cartographers>
Map Size: <approximate territory counts>
Your aims/design style: <influences/themes etc>
Uniqueness: <what sets the map apart>
Relevant Experience: <about the cartographer(s)>

Then post it here: viewtopic.php?f=63&t=105502

I'll post the next step in graphics when I get some more time.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:49 am

Industrial Helix wrote:Wow... looking great!


thanks. but the result is also your job.

Industrial Helix wrote:If you fixed that font we'd be in real good shape.


you still think they are not redable? I could add them more opacity.

Industrial Helix wrote:In the meantime, you need to submit your design brief:

Map Name: <name>
Link to Thread: <link>
Mapmaker(s): <up to two cartographers>
Map Size: <approximate territory counts>
Your aims/design style: <influences/themes etc>
Uniqueness: <what sets the map apart>
Relevant Experience: <about the cartographer(s)>

Then post it here: viewtopic.php?f=63&t=105502

I'll post the next step in graphics when I get some more time.


more graphics? uf o.k. I´m looking forward.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:01 pm

I think, this is the maximum what I´m able to do. if we can have "old" style of fonts, we must go with this. I think they are redable, but maybe only because I read them several days and know them...
Click image to enlarge.
image


EDIT: when I look at map, the fonts are good visible. the problem is that this is "old" style and people do not know them, I think.

EDIT2: here is map with bigger fonts
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby Industrial Helix on Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:22 pm

The font, even increased in size, is still too hard to read. Try a few out that you think are possible fonts, break away from old style if necessary. Try Times Roman, it's very legible and has a tad of flair.

Why are some names capitalized and some not?

You ought to be working on the large map, not the small. Restrict all work to the large map, when you go tot he graphic workshop, then shrink it to make the small.

Lastly, you need to clean up your sea and land lines. Here's how:

New layer, name it sea links.

Click on Brush, set size to about 5 px and color what ever you want the sea lane to be.

Select the pen tool and make sure the settings match mine:
Click image to enlarge.
image


Use the pen tool and click where one sea lane starts. Now click where it ends and hold down the click. Pull away from where you clicked and notice how the line bends, move it up and down and see how it affects the shape? Let go of the mouse when you think you have a curve that fits and doesn't run into many obstacles.

Now, go back to the starting point and either right click or ctrl Click (not sure for windows) and get the little menu. It's the same menu as when you made the shapes. Click stroke path and viola, you have a perfect curved line.

Now bring that little menu up again, right click or ctrl click, and select delete path. This will delete the pen shape and leave the brush shape.

Now since your land lines are over land, a bright solid line is going to be distracting and too bulky. Let's got for something more subtle. Start a new layer and name it "Land connections"

Go to brush, 5 px in size and make the color white.

Now, go up to the menus at the top and click WINDOW menu. Go on down to Brushes and click. This gives you a new window.

Click image to enlarge.
image


In the brushes window, select "Brush Tip Shape" and then down in the right corner is a slider thing that says spacing, go on and up that to about 160. You've got dotted lines.

Now, get out your pen tool and make your starting point, and then your ending point. Curve it just right, stroke with brush and it will make a line like last time, but dotted.

Delete the pen line and go over to your the layer "Land Connections" and lower the opacity until you can see it, but its not so glaring.

If white isn't a good color for this, change it via the same way you changed the the sea.


I just looked at your design brief and you ought to go edit it. Scroll up and take a look at the Design Brief for Japan: Sengoku Gidai. That is what a Design Brief should look like. Make sure you're answering the almighty question of the CC foundry: Yes, my idea could be a map, but should it?

What does your map offer that no other map does? There are a bunch of castle maps and maps with towns, this is not a unique feature. Just because a map has an image, doesn't make it special. It's how the images interact with each other that counts, the gameplay. You should be striving to replicate the political and war relations between Hanseatic towns and the Castles, not their images, and translate this into CC gameplay. You also need to answer what you want players to experience when playing this map, do you wan them see the complex political order of the Medieval Period? Or do you want them to see the logistics and dynamics of waging a Crusade? Perhaps a little of both or something entirely different.

Next for uniqueness, you need to say more than a "maybe." When you say maybe it looks like you don't know what you're doing. Talk about the medieval political structure of town and castles, that's unique right? Talk about the geograpahic area, Baltic... well, there is a Baltic map in production. Say specifically what makes yours different. Time period.... we'll we've got one Crusade map and another almost ready to go. Why do we need another? What experience does your map offer that is different than those other maps? Yes, its a different historical area and time, but you need to say what it brings to CC other than a page in a history book.

When you've given your Design Brief a make over, post it here and I'll take a look at it to make sure its what the mods want to see. Also, I can tweak your English too ;)

I'm looking forward to the next version of this map. It's come a look way and I think when its done it will be quite fun.
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Medals: 36
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (1) Terminator Achievement (3)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (1) Fog of War Achievement (2) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (2) Tournament Achievement (1) General Achievement (1)
Training Achievement (1) Map Contribution (5) Tournament Contribution (1) General Contribution (3)

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