Baltic Crusades

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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby Industrial Helix on Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:27 am

For the stripes in Venezia I just used the line tool, bumped it up to like 20 px and made a line in one color on a layer, copied the layer and then pasted it in a new layer. Hit Hue/Saturation and changed the color to my liking. Then I merged the two line layers and copied them, pasted and repeat until I had a fairly big block of stripes. Then I put the stripes layer underneath my borders layer and carefully erased the edges so that it only filled Venezia.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:28 am

and what do you think about this? ech town, castle, fort are region. if you think it should be I will continue on this map rather as previous...
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby natty dread on Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:04 am

Ok... between Zemgale, Selija, Samogitia and Aukstaitija there's a 4-way border. You'll need to change that, it makes it difficult to figure out which areas attack which.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby MrBenn on Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:47 pm

It's really interesting to see your skills developing.

I'd encourage you to focus on getting something presentable (it doesn;t need to be perfect) so that people can start to get a better idea for how you plan things to work; then it'll be worth looking towards getting a design brief together - this will help to give you continued focus for the map as things develop ;-)
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:54 pm

to natty_dread, this is only idea map, if you look at previous version, you can see trees on the borders which are impassable. and thanks for support.

to MrBenn, thanks for kind words, which are for Industrial Helix also, I think :)

the idea is done, on 99%. I am working on map now, and I hope in the last version there will be everything.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby natty dread on Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:56 pm

I like the castles as separate territories. You should go with that.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:18 am

I finished it. not 100% finished yet, but I believe that Helix has new graphic gimmickry for me ;)
the size of army circles must be 21 x 21 pixels.
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here is version with old style fonts.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby Industrial Helix on Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:28 pm

Wow... I really have to say that your graphic skills have come quite a long way from that first draft you posted. The latest looks pretty damn good, save for a few details.

The next and maybe last trick you need to learn for this map is how to add glow, dropshadow, stroke, ect. to your layers. And this is real simple...

Find the layer you want to alter. In this case, we're going to pick the rivers because they need to stand out a little more. Select your rivers layer.

Next, move the cursor so that it isn't on the layer name, but still on the little block that represents the layer. Now double click.

This should bring up an effects layer where you can do all sorts of things to your layers.

In this case, because I'm not sure which will work best, click on stroke at the very bottom. This should have added a red line around your rivers... now red isn't the color we want, lets try something like dark brown and shrinking the line to something like 2 or 3 px. You can also lower the opacity if you like, which is like what you did to your colors to make the background texture show through.

Is the stroke not working? Go back to the little list to the left and deselect the little box. It should be gone now and your rivers are like they were before. Move on up to "Outer Glow" and select that. Make the color a muddy brown, like muddy banks of the river. I like my Blend mode (located just above the color) set to multiply. Set it to multiply if it isn't already. The "Size" slider will make the glow bigger or smaller, the "Spread" slider will make it more or less diffused. Try something that is tight to the river, something that illustrates the banks of the river and makes them stand out a little bit.

This, I think, should be the last general graphics lesson. You've got the tools and the know-how to make the map that you see in your mind, which I think is clear by the latest version. Congrats, let's take it to the Final Forge! Finish your draft and post a revised design brief, or pm it to me, and I'll make sure your english is good and point out what you need to address better.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:16 am

Industrial Helix wrote:Wow... I really have to say that your graphic skills have come quite a long way from that first draft you posted. The latest looks pretty damn good, save for a few details.


yes, and you show me the right way :)

Industrial Helix wrote:This, I think, should be the last general graphics lesson. You've got the tools and the know-how to make the map that you see in your mind, which I think is clear by the latest version.


I´m working on one new...

Industrial Helix wrote:Congrats, let's take it to the Final Forge!


thanks. I can take it to Final Forge myself? I thought that game makers sort maps which one is good...

Industrial Helix wrote:Finish your draft and post a revised design brief, or pm it to me, and I'll make sure your english is good and point out what you need to address better.


your last graphic tips works fine, but the design brief will be hard work for me. I will work on it, damned with my English :D
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby natty dread on Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:11 am

the size of army circles must be 21 x 21 pixels.


22x22

thanks. I can take it to Final Forge myself? I thought that game makers sort maps which one is good...


No, you make the map, then foundry mods move it to gameplay workshop, then graphics workshop, then final forge.

damned with my English :D


wonder if you'll be a new qwert... :D (lack of english skills never stopped him from making great maps)
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby Industrial Helix on Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:13 am

Well, the tricky thing about writing design briefs is having a solid game plan and objective. Write it in short phrases, or hell, use an online translator and I'll fill in the gaps.

But yeah, like Natty said, circles need to be 22 px and if you map is clean and crisp enough... it probably won't need circles and you can just put the numbers on the map... it's what all the cool kids are doing these days.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:47 am

to natty_dread, gwert? some guy from here? I have to go a long way to do great maps ;)

Helix, sorry in the morning Stroke works me, but now no. baseless if I used Stroke or Outer Glow it everytime colour all my rivers...

about circles, hm I think I will be able to edit map for 22 x 22 pixels, if they are needed. only say me with which we go, Gothic fonts (are they better redable now, Helix) or with the other ones?
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby Industrial Helix on Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:20 pm

theBastard wrote:to natty_dread, gwert? some guy from here? I have to go a long way to do great maps ;)

Helix, sorry in the morning Stroke works me, but now no. baseless if I used Stroke or Outer Glow it everytime colour all my rivers...

about circles, hm I think I will be able to edit map for 22 x 22 pixels, if they are needed. only say me with which we go, Gothic fonts (are they better redable now, Helix) or with the other ones?


Qwert has made a number of maps on CC, most of the WWII ones, Europe 1914, Pelopennesian War, ect. He's definitely made a mark on CC in terms of map contributions.

Ok... One thing to check that you're using outer glow and not inner. With Stroke, make sure position is set to outside and not inside. I'm not 100% sure what to do for your problem... its going to take some messing around on your part to figure out what's going wrong. Try a new file and making a quick scribble with brush, then using the glow and stroke... experimenting is the only way out of this one, I think.

Gothic fonts are still troublesome in my opinion. But I think it's good enough for the moment. Once you get this map into the graphics workshop, you're likely going to have to change it.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Sat Feb 27, 2010 9:59 am

Industrial Helix wrote:In this case, because I'm not sure which will work best, click on stroke at the very bottom. This should have added a red line around your rivers... now red isn't the color we want, lets try something like dark brown and shrinking the line to something like 2 or 3 px. You can also lower the opacity if you like, which is like what you did to your colors to make the background texture show through.


in the window "Layer Style", after I double click on layer "rivers" I can not find how to edit px size or colour. I can only edit opacity...

Industrial Helix wrote:Is the stroke not working? Go back to the little list to the left and deselect the little box. It should be gone now and your rivers are like they were before. Move on up to "Outer Glow" and select that. Make the color a muddy brown, like muddy banks of the river. I like my Blend mode (located just above the color) set to multiply. Set it to multiply if it isn't already. The "Size" slider will make the glow bigger or smaller, the "Spread" slider will make it more or less diffused. Try something that is tight to the river, something that illustrates the banks of the river and makes them stand out a little bit.


stroke did not works me, after I select "Outer Glow" I have white/light around rivers. so than I select OK and go to "Image -Adjustments - Hue/Saturation and try to find colour. but again it coloured all my rivers. it seems "Stroke"/"Outer Glow" works as Lasso Tool or Magic Wand Tool - it makes border around rivers...
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby Industrial Helix on Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:46 am

I see what you're doing... you're just clicking the check box. Click on the words like it was a layer and it should bring up new menus for stroke and outer glow.

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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:56 pm

again thanks, Helix. I have it now, so what do you think? so now a short descriptions and add bonuses, than wait what mods will do with this?
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INFO
Map Name : Baltic Crusade
Cartographer : theBastard
Map Type : WHAT HERE?
Territories : 75, starting positions will be castles and towns, Hanseatic towns and other regions are neutral
Continents : there are 14 Duchies and 5 greater regions
Special Features : three types of settlements which auto-deploy armies, capture 5 castles which represents the highest expansion of Teutonic Order

The map is from 13. - 14. centuries when two military orders (Teutonic Knights and Sword Brethren) captured pagan Baltic lands and bring here christianity. there are historic regions and duchies, also towns of Hanseatic league. it´s medieval era, therefore I build map on the castles and towns - siege and capture them is characteristic for medieval times. therefore auto-deploy in castles and towns would be important.

Helix, I realy do not know what I can write here. I think mostly maps are about the same, only few are realy special and has original ideas. if mods like it o.k., if not I can not do anything with this :D

I can again thank you for your help and support.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby Industrial Helix on Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:00 am

Looks pretty good, definitely better than your first try. I think you grabbed the requirements for what is supposed to be at the beginning of your thread. The design brief is at the top of the forum.

Map Name: The Baltic Crusades
Link to Thread: viewtopic.php?f=63&t=107186&start=75
Mapmaker(s): theBastard
Map Size: 75 Territories, Castles and towns are starting positions.
Your aims/design style: To capture the spirit of the medieval period and the Baltic Crusades, notably the siege of castles and towns.
Uniqueness: There aren't any Baltic area maps yet created on CC, though one in the foundry. It focuses on the Medieval period which isn't uncommon but most historical maps on CC have a very western centric focus, this map will draw attention to the lesser known Baltic Crusades. The map features Castles and Towns and gives players a strategy experience set in the medieval period, drawing attention to the importance of trade between towns and castles, as well as long term siege.
Relevant Experience: I'd say you're just learning but learning fast.

Also, about the font... on second thought it might be alright. The lowercase reads pretty good its just the all caps is tough on the eyes. I think if you added a glow in white or light gray to the letters it might improve clarity (like you did the rivers, double click on the layer and use outer glow).

Another thing that occurred to me in reading your design brief... you mention crusades and pagans and christians... yet there is very little having to do with religion on this map. You ought to give some thought of how your'e going to work pagans and christians into this.

And since I didn't know you wanted to put in starting positions... you ought to include that in the graphics. Follow this link and get the numbers file: viewtopic.php?f=127&t=48259

Then on your map, mak a layer on top of everything and copy from one psd document and paste on the other. Use colored ones on the places you want as players starting positions and neutrals for the ones where you want neutrals.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:57 am

the brief sounds amazing! would I edit my old brief in "Official Design Brief Submissions" or make new post there and used yours?
I did army circles, added numbers, starting positions and made christianity and paganism there. not sure is it good and possible to code...
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby natty dread on Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:31 am

So holding a christian+pagan gives +1, and I assume you want holding 2 christians with no pagans or 2 pagans with no christians to give -2 troops?

Sure, that should be possible.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:41 am

natty_dread wrote:So holding a christian+pagan gives +1, and I assume you want holding 2 christians with no pagans or 2 pagans with no christians to give -2 troops?

Sure, that should be possible.


yes, thats an idea. :) thanks. do you think the map is done, or need something more?
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby natty dread on Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:49 am

A map is not "done" until it is in live play.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby Industrial Helix on Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:57 am

Well... if by done you mean ready to receive more feedback and criticism for the foundry to improve the gameplay and graphics, then yes. You need to keep in mind that it's going to be at least another four months before this map is made for live play. But on the brightside, it won't be as fast paced as it was when i was posting a quick tutorial everyday.

I think you should repost your design brief and then PM MrBenn to say you've refined the map a little more and solidified the direction you're taking it in. Say that it needs some more input from the foundry community and the best place for that is the gameplay workshop.

Here's the tweaked design brief:

Map Name:
The Baltic Crusades
Link to Thread: viewtopic.php?f=63&t=107186&start=75
Mapmaker(s): theBastard
Map Size: 75 Territories, Castles and towns are starting positions.
Your aims/design style: To capture the spirit of the medieval period and the Baltic Crusades, notably the siege of castles and towns.
Uniqueness: There aren't any Baltic area maps yet created on CC, though one in the foundry. It focuses on the Medieval period which isn't uncommon but most historical maps on CC have a very western centric focus, this map will draw attention to the lesser known Baltic Crusades. The map features Castles and Towns and gives players a strategy experience set in the medieval period, drawing attention to the importance of trade between towns and castles, as well as long term siege. The map will also capture the essence of the religious conflict and the conversions of peoples.
Relevant Experience: Just learning but learning fast.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:32 am

...as fast? I´m afraid that without your big help it will be never done :lol:
four month? nevermind, I can continue work on my second map...

last version, I add "Outer Grow" around head line, edited mouths of rivers (recoloured Outer Grow). so last version, until it realy need redoing something.
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby MarshalNey on Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:53 pm

I hated to post to this thread while the tutorial was going on, but now that the basic map draft looks done, I'll interrupt with some encouragement.

I like this map!

I do think that the font is a little too fancy for all of the reading that a player will have to do- it's a little hard on the eyes, but not terrible. And that's a minor criticism for an overall excellent map. Besides, anything that features the Hanseatic League can't be all that bad...

Really, all of the auto-deploys will make the gameplay fairly different to my mind, and it's perfect for the single-territory 'stronghold' theme of medieval conquest, particularly in the relatively sparsely populated Baltic states.

Of course, you've got plenty of the region-conquest bonuses too, and a victory objective which looks attainable, so there are multiple ways for a player to go, which makes me a huge fan in gameplay terms.

I haven't looked all that closely at the balance yet, but the concept seems strong enough and the graphics are more than adequate.

Way to go guys, thumbs up!
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Re: Baltic Crusades

Postby theBastard on Sun Feb 28, 2010 2:32 pm

MarshalNey wrote:I do think that the font is a little too fancy for all of the reading that a player will have to do- it's a little hard on the eyes, but not terrible. And that's a minor criticism for an overall excellent map. Besides, anything that features the Hanseatic League can't be all that bad...


I´ve tried about 20 types of font to find any old style and this one is the best redable from them. I have also version with another font, but they looks too modern.

sorry my English, but I do not exactly understand about Hanseatic towns. is there any problem with them, or they are o.k.?

MarshalNey wrote:Really, all of the auto-deploys will make the gameplay fairly different to my mind, and it's perfect for the single-territory 'stronghold' theme of medieval conquest, particularly in the relatively sparsely populated Baltic states.


100% right, you hold my idea :)

MarshalNey wrote:Of course, you've got plenty of the region-conquest bonuses too, and a victory objective which looks attainable, so there are multiple ways for a player to go, which makes me a huge fan in gameplay terms.


I reduced region bonuses, there were one more, but I can be so close to historic reality how it is possible.

MarshalNey wrote:I haven't looked all that closely at the balance yet, but the concept seems strong enough and the graphics are more than adequate.

Way to go guys, thumbs up!


thanks for your kind words, I´m working on new map and every support helps me :D
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